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  • #31
    Re: Tyrannical executive orders

    Franki,

    Unfortunately I think, is that you are looking for some things that simply aren't going to happen, like cheap gasoline. How do you think that can be brought about, and why do you think the price is what it is? While I agree, and have posted some of my opinions, based on certan facts that I know, of political manipulation by the oil industry.... I don't think we are ever going to get back to "cheap gas".

    This isn't the 30's through 60's any more. The industry knows it's power, but it also knows that the United States isn't the most significant market for gasoline anymore. Also, the days of the "gusher" are somewhat past, and today we have to go through some rather expensive processes to get that stuff out of the ground, much less refine it. Add to that the fact that workers in the last few decades have received much higher wages and benefits and the simple fact that with the latter, health care cost have grown totally out of proportion to almost everything else.

    Also, every economy on the planet has increased significantly in the last forty years. People never dreamed of owning a vehicle, now have them. China's population consumes more automobiles that ours does... and therefore it has a major concern for fuel supplies. The middle east, Africa, South America and Europe have all increased their usage of automobiles. While I don't know what the price of gasoline is elsewhere, I do know what it is here, and here we are competing for it. If you don't believe me, just take a look at "Google Earth" and take a look at some of the metropolitan areas of the world outside the U.S.

    And my friend, I realize that you don't like or believe the numbers, but the U.S. is producing more oil than ever before; AND, that has dramatically increased in the last four years (but I can't attribute that to Obama, just the fact that the technology is now here). But, lets look at some of the things that have been a major complaint... like that pipeline from Alberta. I've been told that a pipeline already exists... and that the controversial line is in fact a second line...much bigger of course and planned to transverse some of the most pristine lands we have. It also goes over a very major underground aquifer, the destruction of which would be catastrophic to the western great plains.

    Likewise, here in the east we are getting all kinds of propaganda commercials from the API (American Petroleum Institute), like the millions of jobs this is going to create, all the SAFE fracking details, how our waters will be protected, our fresh water wells secure, etc. etc. etc. Well, if THAT were true, then why hasn't that been the case so far? ANYWHERE!

    The oil "product" from Alberta "oil sands", isn't really oil at all. It's this thick tar-like crap that you can literally pick up in your hands like a ball, You have to scrape it out of the ground like so much scum. It's been there for tens of thousands of years and has been totally worthless. The compression equipment that we supplied isn't there to handle the oil, it's there to handle the processing and the mix of chemicals to remove this stuff and make it acceptable to flow in a pipeline, IT is a damn expensive process and one that can be done only with a maze of equipment and technology. In other words, it doesn't come gushing up and then can be transported and refined in any normal way. All that costs big money... but if they can get $150 to $200 a barrel for the junk than it may be worth it. It has also been reported that there's a "glut", and they've run out of places to store this "mix"... until the lines can be completed to the coast.

    The same is true of the "fracking" process here in the east. The only reason we are going after it is because we can make big $$... but it costs big $$ and the process is highly risky to not only the above ground environment, but also to the subterranian environment. He!! man, this process has been proven to cause earthquakes, as the massive almost explosive-like process disrupts the underground shale for a mile or more. There are constant spills, fractures into aquifers, etc. And with new technology, the gas drilling companies can drill on the outskirts of town with a single well and move thier channeling almost anywhere they want, unknown. So, they could literally drill even under your under your property! You would get nothing from that as it would be virtually impossible to prove your case... and even if you could, the lawyers and local government would be in the pockets of the gas company!

    Worse perhaps, is that while you might believe that this fracking, oil pipeline, and other stuff is going to benefit all of us, the sad truth is that it won't. That pipeline is going to the Texas coast to be exported!!!! And though not to Texas, so too will most of the gas scavenged from the fracking process. We've already got several gas fields obtained in Steuben County, including one directly across the valley from my house. That particular well, and other like it, were done almost a decade ago and they are "capped"... just sitting there waiting for the price to be right and for the "clearance" to be legislated for more pipelines or rails to ship this stuff out of here.

    In my own village, we've got a brand new rail line, for the soul purpose of selling the village water supply south to Pennsylvania for the fracking fields. Our dumb a$$ mayor and the village board are so strapped for money, that they fired half of the police force and blindly signed a contract to the tune for almost $5 Million over the next several years to let the drilling companies take our very drinking water. Just this morning alone, there must have been over thirty tank cars lined up at the pumping stations; and that's JUST TODAY! The really stupid part of all this, is that WE, THE PEOPLE of the village are risking our supply and the Village is NOT going to receive a single dime, until the contract is up! At which I can imagine they will file bankrupsey, or find some other way to void thier "paper committment. (Can you imagine anyone in their right mind, selling off their resources and not being paid anything for it, until after the buyer is completely done taking everything away!?)

    And what about the jobs.... not a single "local" was hired for either the rail or for any of the oil fields. I know that for a fact, as I know several "workers, laid off from my plant and from Corning Glass jobs that have tried to get employment there. And, just this morning on my trip here I passed a couple of dozen trucks carrying the "Schlumberger" name... all from Sugarland, Texas. These guys are all over the five county area that I regularly travel. And we supposedly still have a ban on this "fracking" thing.

    So, all this is expensive... and none of it is for your benefit or mine... we're never going to see cheap gas again.

    CWS
    Last edited by CWSmith; 01-29-2013, 06:48 PM.

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    • #32
      Re: Tyrannical executive orders

      I'm encourged to see movement on resolving illegal immigration. CWS, I'm well aware that most if not all of the things I suggested will never come to pass. Those are the things I feel are key to ensuring we have a future in which we can provide healthcare, a clean environment, and alternative energy. I don't have a crystal ball, can't accurately predict the future and I doubt you can either. We have opinions and they differ. I would like nothing more than to be proven entirely wrong down the road. Perhaps illegal immigration reform will be passed and lead to more meaningful legislation that will help with the things I find most disturbing. Let's all hope I'm wrong.

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      • #33
        Re: Tyrannical executive orders

        Well one of the things I see about the "immigration" proposals that I see today (at least from what I saw on the News and that I so far can comprehend), is that nobody is going to get off easy and that "the path" is going to end "at the beginning of the line" for citizenship application.

        Look, my family goes all the way back to colonial times (or so my genologiy-intrigued DIL tells me). I do know that my father and my grandfather and great grandfather were born and raised here in NY. But, my most adorable LOML's parents are from Italy, my late FIL coming here when he was only four. Since that time other "family" as come over, all of them "sponsored" by the family members who came before them. When they come, they come as a honor to the family and they work and work very hard. And while they work, they study, learn, practice, and take every possible step toward the citizenship that they absolutely MUST earn. It is made quite clear, you do what you must or the family simply sends you back! They will not put up with anything less than your best.

        Let me give you an example.... One young man came here in his very early 20's. Really, totally European. Didn't speak a word of English and his clothes, habits, everything reflected his native Italy. So, his uncle tells him he will work in the family business... but he is made to start at the worst possible job, a real grubby job. And he does so for more than two years, until he earns the right and responsibility to move up to the next level. While he is working (4:00 AM to 2:00 pm, he has to go to school, learn English, history, government, Constitution, Bill of Rights, etc. His uncle tells him he will buy him a house and so he does... but it was a run down place in one of the poorer section of the town. His uncle says you need to fix this up, you can't live there as it is. You fix, and I will buy you the materials... but YOU must do all the labor yourself. So the kid, walks from the edge of town to the center of the city every day. And on the way home, he watches the construction workers and he sees how to lay bricks and he learns some carpentry. So the guy works early morning to afternoon, works on his house on weekends and goes to school at night and catches a few hours here and there to sleep.

        When I got invited to his house for "citizenship" party a few years after his arrival... it was amazing. His driveway was all brick, His living room had a brick fireplace, and the patio was bricked with privacy wall, etc. It was really something else to see... and he did all the work by himself.

        My BIL, made the comment that, "well if I had someone buy be all the materials, I'd have a palace too!". Really, I don't think so, you don't know a trowel from a screwdriver. And like me, you don't have that kind of ambition.

        Today this kid, owns his own business, knows more about the country and history than most people. He employs more than a dozen people and has one of the finest homes in the area, overlooking the city. He's got a great wife and two kids, one a teacher and one another business owner. He's also one of the hardest working and most generous guys I've ever had the honor to know. And, he the kind of guy who still fixes all of his own equipment.

        Now when I look at a guy like that, and a family like that, and know the family that made it possible for him to even be here... well, this illegal crap gets me upset. And I get upset when I find that everything has to be in Spanish because of so many illegals too. I think when our society lets people in for nothing, and then caters to thier inability and lack of enthusiasm for becoming American citizens it makes me sick.

        I'd think the path outlined may work, but I also think it doesn't answer the problem and it may well invite even more illegals to give it a go.

        One of the things that I think needs to be changed, is this "born in U.S. you automatically become a citizen". That, all by itself make illegal immegration worth all the risks. What we need to do is change that.... you have to be "legal" parents, if you want to have your children given that birthright!

        CWS

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        • #34
          Re: Tyrannical executive orders

          All I can say Frankie is that because of my teaching job I tour a lot of manufacturing plants and I see a lot of optimism out there. You would be amazed at some of the things we are producing and what is on the horizon.
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          • #35
            Re: Tyrannical executive orders

            Regarding CWS's post on fracking and the oil sands pipeline, I have read a number of industry reports that backup everything CWS has said in post #31 regarding the dangers of fracking and the enviromental risks and high cost of extracting oil from the oil sands in canada.

            I am opposed to both technologies evennthough I know they could put many of my friends to work at good paying jobs. The risks and known damage to the enviroment are too great. And as CWS said, that pipeline will take all that oil to TX where it will be exported, just as all the new natural gas will. The profit margin is triplemor more if they sell that NG overseas. You will never see one therm come through your meter.
            ---------------
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            ---------------
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            • #36
              Re: Tyrannical executive orders

              CW,
              Like Hillary said, "IT TAKES A VILLAGE", and a lot of folks cheered. Sorry, to hear it's your village.

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              • #37
                Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                Glad to see you guys at still at it

                All I have to say is that I agree with everything CWS and NHMaster have said

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                • #38
                  Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                  I sure hope the enthusiasm some of you guys have is enough to make a difference. I wonder how many folks are barely making ends meet as inflation cuts deeper into their finances? Don't know if there are any statistics to represent the working folks who have had to give up many luxuries in order to pay at the pump or heat their homes, but I'm sure thier reduced spending power has hit other job sectors hard.
                  There are millions of Americans who are out of work and I'm sure among them are folks who can't afford to gas up and seek new jobs. That may seem to be a nonissue for those of us who can still shell out $50 at the pump, but not for someone who is at the end of their rope.
                  I find it hard to believe that any new manufacturing in the USA can offset the loss of American jobs and the continued loss of American monies for the foreign goods we must buy. Once our economy shifted from providing products to the world and our own country, to consuming from others, I think it was game over. Like the line from the movie shawshank redemption says "Hope is a good thing, perhaps the best of things", by all means remain hopeful, optimistic. I have to go on my gut which says millions out of work, God knows how many losing the struggle to inflation, and no change on our dependence on foreign goods will not support any kind of recovery. Some of you think the trillions and growing of national debt means nothing, I was taught the bill comes due at some point. Still, there's no harm in being hoepful, what will happen, will happen, one way or the other.

                  P.S. NHM. I checked out of of thelinks you posted on "nano bateries" and there it was , Altair Nano technologies. Years ago I owned that stock (ALTI) took a beating on it and now I see they had a 6 for 1 reverse split. These R&D companies have some great ideas that often do little for their investors and less for America and our unemployed. Communist china steals a lot of our technology and since labor is cheaper and there is no gov't interference (EPA, OSHA) they manufacture it and sell it back to us. Just my opinion that we can't recover if the playing field is not level, we don't have fair and balanced trade, or open markets. I enjoy reading about technology and advancements being made, but I'm wise enough to not invest, or hope America will profit. Not with the way things stand at the moment.
                  Last edited by Frankiarmz; 01-30-2013, 12:10 PM.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                    Franki (and others of course),

                    At one time I felt a great sympathy for so many people; people who I thought deserved more, had less than me, and maybe not much going for them. Life is a struggle for too many and over the last thirty or forty years all of us "working class" folks have taken a real beating. But, I've also been convinced that much of this "I can't afford" is just a poor sense of priority as to what is important and what is necessary to being happy and to just living. I've found that with way too many people, the more they have the more they want. One can be happy with just "a living", but I've found that with too many folks, once they've "been to the well", all they want to do is gorge themselves.

                    So, I sort of look at those who complain... "I can't afford!" (I've got some friends and some relatives like that.) and they whine and complain and carry-on as to the misery of it all. But I've also noticed that their spending is ridiculous. They out to dinner all the time, or do the "take-out" habitually. They leave their house and first thing they do is stop somewhere to buy a "Big Gulp" and/or snacks and sandwiches... .LIke WHAT, you grab a can of soda from the frig when you left? Then there's the electronics, New laptops, satilite radio in both cars, new smart-phone almost every year.... and extended data plans. Like what do you pay for this stuff? "Oh, it was ONLY!"... and it goes on and on.

                    Then there's the really poor... How many times have I seen the cart full of junk food, approaching a $100 and paid for with the county card. And the woman has these lavish nails, fine looking leather coat, etc.

                    Or the other acquintance... "life is so hard, we barely are getting buy"... interesting, they both have their own cars, late models too. Both get their hair done at a "salon" (Well, we're in "retail", we have to look our best!). And of course they eat out several times a week, like to visit the casino's every few weeks, and absolutely need a vacation here or there every three or four months. Yep, life is hard and I totally understand why you can't afford to give to charities!

                    "Affordability" is, to way too many a simple matter of "priorities". That's not saying that some are truly poor, but I've come to know that too many are simply not frugal. So when one says they can't afford luxuries, I guess I'm more inclined to wonder what exactly do they consider "luxury"? Life is what it is, one needs to be wise, especially when money comes hard.

                    CWS

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                    • #40
                      Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                      CWS, there are those folks who fall into the group you described, I was referring to the millions who are seriously affected by inflation and the prices at the pump. There are those folks who are out of work and those who have had wages frozen, benefits reduced and now face their own financial collapse which impacts others. I'm talking about the folks who can't afford a new car and still have a clunker.
                      We hear plenty about the food stamp cheats, but not enough about the folks who are truly struggling to get by. You may believe the price of gasoline is what it is, I just think it's a deal breaker for too many. The results of the high cost of gasoline, wage freezes, unemployment and inflation continue to be felt and impact our economy in a negative way. I think of gasoline as an essential commodity, something that must be made affordable, regardless of what it costs in europe, australia or anywhere else. I have observed many establishes businesses and new businesses close down and it tells me people are caught between rising prices and less consumer spending strength.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        But CW these are the fuzzy facts that get air time. Nobody wants to actually verify them and even fewer are willing to dig back in history in able to put them in their proper context. So many things that presidents get blamed for have already been done previously by other presidents or the precident was already set. Obama has done nothing that is not within the legal and constitutional scope of the law..
                        Are you kidding me! Taking arms away is contrary to the constitution.
                        The National defense authorization act is contrary to the constitution and basic habius corpus.
                        The types of executive orders and particularly controlling the press is unconstitutional.

                        I am apaulled at the lackadaisical attitude of many, while out liberties are being pissed away.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                          I agee, the media is very biased.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                            John,

                            Please tell us, exactly where have you seen ANY arms being taken away? The 2nd Amendment gives us the right to keep and bear arms... it does NOT define what those "arms" are, does it? It also does not proclaim in any way that the government cannot regulate! There are other amendments too, and I see NO WHERE that the government has curtailed the freedom of speech, and certainly NOT the press; SO again, where do you see that the government is "particularly controlling the press", as you put it?

                            CWS

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                            • #44
                              Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                              Although its not pushed though yet, the administration clearly wants to take away guns (from law abiding citizens). 2nd amendment: "The right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" The idea behind it was established by our founding fathers. I gives citizens a way to keep a tyrannical government in check. Its not about what guns we use to go hunting. Its about the citizens being able to form their own militia (god-forbid if the need arises) to protect themselves and to stand against tyranny. BTW the line "well regulated militia" means self regulated, not government regulated. Check out this link and read it all the way through.
                              Executive Order -- Assignment of National Security and Emergency Preparedness Communications Functions | The White House

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                              • #45
                                Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                                You forgot the first four words. A lot of folks forget the first four words.

                                A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed

                                In what manner are "we the people" to be considered a "well regulated" militia? We are anything but well regulated and we certainly have not formed a militia of any sort. Not that we don't have a well regulated militia. Its called the National Guard.

                                Now lets talk about that "keeping the tyrannical government in check" The founding fathers were not talking about OUR government, they were talking about foreign governments like England who's butt we had recently ejected from our shores. But even if you reject that premise the chances of "we the people" having the ability to overthrow our government with small arms is ludicrous at best and besides, all we have to do to overthow the government is VOTE. Its amazing how so many folks can get things so wrong but it goes to show that most Americans have little knowledge of history let alone the history of their own nation and even more so, it shows how so many folks can get caught up in the half truths and out and out lies spread by organizations and folks that dont really care all that much about the freedom as much as they care about the money. Always, follow the money because when you get right down to it who does an assault weapon ban really hurt? It hurts the gun manufacturer. Its millions of dollars in profit. And who donates and funds the NRA? Sure, ordinary folks put their two cents in but its the gun manufacturers that fund and control the NRA. Do you really think they give a damn about the 2nd amendment because it guarantees you freedom? or do they care because it guarantees them profits?
                                Last edited by NHMaster3015; 01-31-2013, 08:37 AM.
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