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  • #76
    Re: Tyrannical executive orders

    My 401k has recovered and is even profitable again.
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    • #77
      Re: Tyrannical executive orders

      The problem with those of you who see "Obama Care" in such negative light, is that you all refuse to recognize the very basis of the health care problem. First off, your label is the "Affordable Health Care Act"... and that is the focus of the action.

      Health care in the U.S. has run rampantly up, well beyond any sense of reason. Almost every hospital has expanded and many have aggesively swallowed up "private" practices in a very open way of monopolizing local and regional health care providers. For example, when I moved to the Corning area in 1973, there were at least three medical centers and dozens of doctors in private practice. I had great healthcare with my new employer. And, the subcontract business environment (job-shoppers) could even provide excellent health benefits (like when our son was born in 1969 the total bill was around $450 and everything was paid for except the phone in the room). In 1973, a doctor's visit was $6 and it was paid entirely by my health coverage.

      Today we have "Guthrie". They came to the area approx 25 years ago for Sayre, PA where they were basically a hospital and medical training facility. I used to do subcontract work for them back in those days. It was a small, quiet little facility in sort of a sleepy factory town. But by the time they came to Corning they had increased significantly, with a major focus on "profit" and as a medical profit-making corporation they expanded rapidly. In Corning, they gobbled up the hospital, then built a huge new office/medical arts building and working with Corning Glass and the city, doctors started getting "offers".. and they also started getting property tax increases; to the point where most could no longer maintain their privated practices. Within a couple of years, all but a few are now with "Guthrie" and all of the old medical centers are gone. My "Guthrie" physician's rate is now $208 for an office call.

      (You need to live in Corning to understand how much influence "Corning, Inc" (old Corning Glass Works) has. They're executives sit on the school board, hospital boards, planning boards, city courcels, etc. They even have thier "Corning Enterprise" subsidiary which buys up small merchants and brings in others in an effort to contain and influence those who don't wish to follow.)

      All you have to do is look around your town... in most cases all the growth is in the medical business. Pharmacies have cropped up everywhere, as have localized hospital-outpatient centers and related walk-ins. These would not be, if it wasn't so profitable. The television and the mails are filled with advertizements, offers, and new remedies; many of which "won't cost you anything, because we bill your Medicare directly".

      An person gets sick and it costs big-time. My Dad spend most of his life trying to pay off the never-ending, and ever increasing medical costs of my mother. It was overwhelming. And today, when you get sick or you loose your job, it is simply devestating from a medical-cost point of view. People who would otherwise live long, simply get sick and die because they can't afford to visit a doctor and what was minor gets much, much worse without basic medical care.

      I've seen and I've experienced the problems of going to Emergency where the first priority used to be, "Checking Your Insurance"... regardless of the time it takes, you sit and suffer until your "paperwork" is evident and you can PAY.

      So, the Affordable Health Care Act was and is supposed take all that financial pain away and it was supposed to lower the cost and contain the constant increased, that historically were well above the inflation rates. But, lobbying and Republican support of that lobby pretty much has blocked those constraints. And even though most of our pharmaceuticals are imported, the Republicans have blocked you and I from obtaining those drugs from anywhere except highly profiteering domestic suppliers.

      Heath care should NOT be a matter of bankrupsy or having to sign over your house in order to be taken care of. Nobody should be making a massive profit off of your illness or the flu season or even a rattlesnake bite for that matter. And certainly Franki, nobody should be telling you that because you have reached a certain age or condition, that you shouldn't be cared for! Longevity should not be a matter of the size of your bank account or based on the fact that you were part of a "negotiated" benefit from a public service company who never had to concern itself with competition.

      What we need to do is recognize the need of control of medical costs and also the need for the universal needs of our fellow citizens. I don't think it should be entirely free and I certainly don't think that we are all owed "transplants" when we're 90 and have spent most of our lives smoking, drinking, and carousing with wild women (well, maybe we can overlook the women ).

      CWS

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Tyrannical executive orders

        CWS, something had to be done, I just think this healthcare bill was not the answer. I keep mentioning priorities and wheter it's the government or individuals priorities vary. I would have put the economy and jobs first, then figure out healthcare, social security and other necessities. Good ideas at the wrong time can result in a bad outcome. I would really like to know that nobody would tell you because you have reached a certain age you cannot get needed halthcare, unfortunately with the trillions of debt, tens of millions of unemployed Americans, inflation and other economic realities I fear that is what will happen. The foundation of our country cannot continue to support the needs of the people, it must be fixed.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Tyrannical executive orders

          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
          The problem with those of you who see "Obama Care" in such negative light, is that you all refuse to recognize the very basis of the health care problem. First off, your label is the "Affordable Health Care Act"... and that is the focus of the action.

          Health care in the U.S. has run rampantly up, well beyond any sense of reason. Almost every hospital has expanded and many have aggesively swallowed up "private" practices in a very open way of monopolizing local and regional health care providers. For example, when I moved to the Corning area in 1973, there were at least three medical centers and dozens of doctors in private practice. I had great healthcare with my new employer. And, the subcontract business environment (job-shoppers) could even provide excellent health benefits (like when our son was born in 1969 the total bill was around $450 and everything was paid for except the phone in the room). In 1973, a doctor's visit was $6 and it was paid entirely by my health coverage.

          Today we have "Guthrie". They came to the area approx 25 years ago for Sayre, PA where they were basically a hospital and medical training facility. I used to do subcontract work for them back in those days. It was a small, quiet little facility in sort of a sleepy factory town. But by the time they came to Corning they had increased significantly, with a major focus on "profit" and as a medical profit-making corporation they expanded rapidly. In Corning, they gobbled up the hospital, then built a huge new office/medical arts building and working with Corning Glass and the city, doctors started getting "offers".. and they also started getting property tax increases; to the point where most could no longer maintain their privated practices. Within a couple of years, all but a few are now with "Guthrie" and all of the old medical centers are gone. My "Guthrie" physician's rate is now $208 for an office call.

          (You need to live in Corning to understand how much influence "Corning, Inc" (old Corning Glass Works) has. They're executives sit on the school board, hospital boards, planning boards, city courcels, etc. They even have thier "Corning Enterprise" subsidiary which buys up small merchants and brings in others in an effort to contain and influence those who don't wish to follow.)

          All you have to do is look around your town... in most cases all the growth is in the medical business. Pharmacies have cropped up everywhere, as have localized hospital-outpatient centers and related walk-ins. These would not be, if it wasn't so profitable. The television and the mails are filled with advertizements, offers, and new remedies; many of which "won't cost you anything, because we bill your Medicare directly".

          An person gets sick and it costs big-time. My Dad spend most of his life trying to pay off the never-ending, and ever increasing medical costs of my mother. It was overwhelming. And today, when you get sick or you loose your job, it is simply devestating from a medical-cost point of view. People who would otherwise live long, simply get sick and die because they can't afford to visit a doctor and what was minor gets much, much worse without basic medical care.

          I've seen and I've experienced the problems of going to Emergency where the first priority used to be, "Checking Your Insurance"... regardless of the time it takes, you sit and suffer until your "paperwork" is evident and you can PAY.

          So, the Affordable Health Care Act was and is supposed take all that financial pain away and it was supposed to lower the cost and contain the constant increased, that historically were well above the inflation rates. But, lobbying and Republican support of that lobby pretty much has blocked those constraints. And even though most of our pharmaceuticals are imported, the Republicans have blocked you and I from obtaining those drugs from anywhere except highly profiteering domestic suppliers.

          Heath care should NOT be a matter of bankrupsy or having to sign over your house in order to be taken care of. Nobody should be making a massive profit off of your illness or the flu season or even a rattlesnake bite for that matter. And certainly Franki, nobody should be telling you that because you have reached a certain age or condition, that you shouldn't be cared for! Longevity should not be a matter of the size of your bank account or based on the fact that you were part of a "negotiated" benefit from a public service company who never had to concern itself with competition.

          What we need to do is recognize the need of control of medical costs and also the need for the universal needs of our fellow citizens. I don't think it should be entirely free and I certainly don't think that we are all owed "transplants" when we're 90 and have spent most of our lives smoking, drinking, and carousing with wild women (well, maybe we can overlook the women ).

          CWS
          The problem I have with Obamacare is it does not do what it says. In 4-years my health care has gone from $14,400 per year with a $10 copay and zero for hospitalization to $22,800 per year with a $30 copay and $400 per day for hospitalization.

          Where are the cost controls?

          Why weren't they included in Obamacare?

          Why were those profiting from heath care instrumental in writing Obamacare?

          What will prevent employers from dropping employee health care?

          What will cause the uninsured to purchase insurance?

          Who will pay the cost of those who either lose their insurance or never has insurance?

          Why are there no caps on malpractice lawsuits?

          In May, I am attending a retirement party for my Orthopedic Surgeon. He is in his early 50s but says between the costs of his liability insurance and Obamacare related cuts it just inn't worth practicing anymore. He will now just do private consulting.

          Universal Health Care is a noble idea but it needs to make sense.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Tyrannical executive orders

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            The problem I have with Obamacare is it does not do what it says. In 4-years my health care has gone from $14,400 per year with a $10 copay and zero for hospitalization to $22,800 per year with a $30 copay and $400 per day for hospitalization.

            Where are the cost controls?

            Why weren't they included in Obamacare?

            Why were those profiting from heath care instrumental in writing Obamacare?

            What will prevent employers from dropping employee health care?

            What will cause the uninsured to purchase insurance?

            Who will pay the cost of those who either lose their insurance or never has insurance?

            Why are there no caps on malpractice lawsuits?

            In May, I am attending a retirement party for my Orthopedic Surgeon. He is in his early 50s but says between the costs of his liability insurance and Obamacare related cuts it just inn't worth practicing anymore. He will now just do private consulting.

            Universal Health Care is a noble idea but it needs to make sense.

            Mark
            Mark, I'll give you the answer I got here. You have no proof of anything you said, and anything that happened since obamacare is coincidental. Good luck, and God help us!

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Tyrannical executive orders

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              You may stand by what you said but what you sais is wrong and the Supreme Court has verified that on several occasions.
              Really? That's news to me, Can you cite a reference to what the supreme court said?

              BTW, The reason your 401k is up is because of artificially stimulating the markets with quantitative easing (federal reserve is devaluing the dollar by billions of dollars every month) Basically our economy is on life support. If the central bank was to stop buying (imaginary)bonds our system would quickly collapse.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                Really? That's news to me, Can you cite a reference to what the supreme court said?

                BTW, The reason your 401k is up is because of artificially stimulating the markets with quantitative easing (federal reserve is devaluing the dollar by billions of dollars every month) Basically our economy is on life support. If the central bank was to stop buying (imaginary)bonds our system would quickly collapse.
                Can you prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt?

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                  Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                  Can you prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt?
                  Absolutely, positively, I think so.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                    Mark,

                    I recall you mentioning your high cost of health care once before. It's none of my (or anyone else's) business for sure... but does the $14k YOU mention because you own a company and are paying for several employee's or do you and your family have some very serious conditions?

                    My company (the one I am retired from) just dropped it's health care for us retiree's. Thanks... after 30 years of service. But, they are giving me $1300 a year to help me find my own. So, I did... and though I have to pay significantly more for a couple of pescriptions my wife takes, the overall savings for the two of us will be around $500 a year.

                    Thanks,

                    CWS

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                      CW, to give you an idea, the family plan offered to military members still serving under TRICARE costs $195 a month. The same plan, if offered privately, would cost around $900 a month. That is $10,800 annually. So it is well within the ballpark to end up with a plan that would run $14,000 quite easily. The sad part is, most Europeans I have met often look upon us Americans with shock when told of having to pay such premiums for basic care. To them, it's only a matter of fact to enter a hospital when ill, get fixed up, then go back to work, without having to get charged such outragous bills.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                        Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                        Mark,

                        I recall you mentioning your high cost of health care once before. It's none of my (or anyone else's) business for sure... but does the $14k YOU mention because you own a company and are paying for several employee's or do you and your family have some very serious conditions?

                        My company (the one I am retired from) just dropped it's health care for us retiree's. Thanks... after 30 years of service. But, they are giving me $1300 a year to help me find my own. So, I did... and though I have to pay significantly more for a couple of pescriptions my wife takes, the overall savings for the two of us will be around $500 a year.

                        Thanks,

                        CWS
                        My wife and I have Kaiser Permanente with no employees. In 2009 our premium was $14,400 per year with with a $10 copay per visit and no hospital copay. The following year we increased our copay to $30 per visit and $400 per day for hospitalization, hoping to not get sick. Our annual renewal just came in January. Our new premium is $22,800 per year even with our higher copay. At this point we are looking forward to Medicare.

                        Mark
                        Last edited by ToUtahNow; 02-02-2013, 10:03 PM.
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          Can you prove this beyond a shadow of a doubt?
                          Don't just take my word on it, talk to any economist.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                            Regarding insurance premiums, this kind of thing just goes to show how ridiculous our healthcare costs and the insurance has become. In 1982, I lost my job when my Division packed up and went south. Left to our own devices, I decided to go into the technical photography, illustration, and writing business on my own. Our son was, IIRC, a sophmore in highschool and here we were is this small factory town in the midst of some major layoffs and no job prospects anywhere.

                            So, set up my drawing board in my unheated and unfinished garage (bare studs, a leaky window, rotting garage door, and no heat... and NO money to speak of and inflation was "through the roof"). So, I borrowed a couple of thousand $ from my retirement account and went to NYC and bougth photo equipment, put plastic over the leaky window and bought a cheap open-flame kerosene heater. AND, health insurance was a key concern because we had nothing and surely couldn't afford to get sick; any of us!

                            I shopped around and got a pretty decent policy from Stated Farm. It paid my son's "Emergency Room" expense that year in full. Later, it was decided he need "appliances" for his feet and it paid that in full also. It paid for all of our Doctor's visits with a meager $4 co-pay. I don't recall what it had for prescription coverage though... as we were still young and I don't think any of us took anything back then. But, the total monthy premium on that was somewhere around $60 or $70 for the three of us.

                            But let me add, that even that was a stretch at first. My charge rate for my "work" was $35 per hour and my business plan was based on actually having 28 hours of chargeable work per week... you can't charge for "sales" and other "downtime". It cost us $1,000 a month for housing and food and related bills, as we learned to keep our expenses to a minimum. To that end, I formed a "Corporation", registered in the state of NY (one of the most expensive states to be incorporated in). My wife and son were "officers" of the corporation, and we were all "Directors", as well another relative. As CEO, I received no salary, but as COO (Chief Operating Officer), I was on "contract" to receive a salary of about $400 a week. The insurance, as all business related expenses were deductable, as was my salary, from the Corporate income. I of course had to file a separate "personal" income tax too.

                            But the health insurance premium was very low, in fact it was less than what my piece of the health insurance premium while working for Ingersoll-Rand (which had gone to so-called "self-insurance". I went back to I-R in 1985, and in 1986 I-R spun us off into a joint-venture with Halliburton's Dresser subsidiary and we became Dresser-Rand. At that point, we lost our pensions and the health-insurance nightmare started to ensinuate itself into all of our lives. Over the years, that COST to the company became nightmarish as it struggled to keep up and stay competitive with employee benefits.

                            Duriing that time, I sat in many meeting where healthcare costs were a primary concern to the company's bottom line. The company made considerable effort to cut costs, eliminate accidents, and instill health maintenance and prevention programs for it's employees and it's exectives. As a person who reported directly to a VP, I even got a free health screening once a year. The company even went so far as to having a private physician visit the facility for a few hours twice a week and having a full-time nursing staff on two shifts in an effort to keep down outside costs. It even provided annual health screenings, flu shots (including family members), etc. And in spite of all of this, the healthcare insurance costs continued to climb at an astonishing rate. So much so, that the company seriously had problems with doing any expansion here in the U.S. And, I think that was a major consideration to their expansion to China and India.

                            This company had considerable experience globally, with plants in the UK, France, and offices around the world, including Australia, South America, and Asia. The cost of insurance and healthcare was absolutely the highest, here in the U.S.!

                            From that experience, I have no problem whatsoever with the objectives of the Affordable Healthcare Act. As we have seen, many of the forum members are alarmed, and as we know, Franki and others keep saying that we can't afford "Obama Care" and that we need to focus on jobs. But my experience, shows that the cost of health care and the insurance for it IS a major reason why many of our industries have shipped our jobs to Asia. In almost every industrialized nation, health care benefits exceed those of the U.S. and at much less cost to the worker and to their employers.

                            Now, my son is a graduate of Cornell's Industrial Labor Relations school and he hold a Masters for Mariss (sp?) in business administration. Currently he works for a major hospital corporation. He tells me that companies all over the country are dropping their health insurance administration, not only for retiree's but for active workers as well. It is getting to expensive to administrate and even as a corporation with a few thousand workers you can't negotiate the premiums down enough. So by going to "national" concerns, they are better empowered to hold the costs.

                            The problem of course with so-called "Obama-care" is that the Republicans issued almost 700 amendments to the process during it's implementation. Many of them were constraints and blockages on price controls, cost reductions, and prohibitions that would bring the inflation or roll it back. As with most other business-backing, the Republicans have taken all necessary action to prevent any cost controls what-so-ever to our healthcare. Even my own physician says that it's ridiculous to do do business any more. There's no constraints on charges, and add-ons and the healthcare industry is going crazy in it's unbridled rush to maximize it's gouging profits before the government wakes up and puts a leash on it (Of votes the Republicans out of power, so effective controls can be put on it.)

                            CWS

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Tyrannical executive orders

                              CWS, your last paragraph tells the true story. Republicans will always put the protection of profit over the good of the people
                              Last edited by NHMaster3015; 02-04-2013, 08:48 AM.
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