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  • A Federal ID Card

    I've been thinking (OH NO! ) about all the problems we seem to be having with immigration, voting, gun rights, and several other things. And it got me to wondering about how other forum members might feel about a national ID system, such as a Federal Identification Card. Do you think that would be one more "infringement" or perhaps a positive step toward some of the things that trouble many of us in this country?

    For example:

    Voting: Currently voting is a community thing, and obviously by the last two Presidential elections there's a lot of political action that goes into either making it a positive or negative experience. On the Republican side of the issue, we hear a lot about fraud, fake ID's, etc., though there is very little evidence of that. On the Democratic side of the issue, we see long lines, shortened voting times, and even some issues where people are questioned and turned away. What is one to believe?

    This last November I got to thinking how ridiculous it was, that we somehow place ourselves into a locally-controlled election process, when in fact, it is a National election and one which should be equal for all of us. Why should either you or I be subjected to the confines of even a local "Village" process, where we actually have to present ourselves, with proper ID, in order to exercize our National right? While MY village may well be on the up-and-up, who is to say that maybe it isn't! And, if I can't be there, physically to vote, why should I have to go through a process that delivers my vote in a manner that can or cannot approved by someone who has to inspect it?

    Legal or Illegal Citizen: When I get "stopped", the usual process is to present my license and registration. When I go get a passport, I need to present my birth certificate and/or other ID for proof of who I am. When I process people for a Amateur Radio License (FCC), there must be three of us "certified" to ID the individual, and they need some form of photo-ID, or two forms of other ID, that proves who they are. And even in school, you need a photo-ID to gain entrance (in many schools, anyway). But really, who is to say that the ID process meets the situation. In my FCC testing, some kid can come in and show me a letter and a report card and have two adults say he's there kid and that is supposed to be accepted. But really, is it? I get two dark haired adults and their kid has got red hair and freckles... should I really be able to certify that the little genious is in fact thier child or really the cousin or the next door neighbors?

    Even with cashing a check, filling our a health form, going to the hospital, etc. you need to provide your SS# and show some form of ID. (Yet, it states clearly that your Social Security card is NOT to be used for "Identification" purposes.) ID, needs to be to the extent that there should be no doubt that it belongs to the bearer, and if it does not, then the avenues to discovering the fraudulance of it's presentation should be quickly evident.

    Licensing - For almost anything! Who says you are who you say you are, and if you somehow have been found to be dilinquent, how are we going to reflect that back on YOU or clear you! More to the point, is that once you've gained a proper ID, how do we make sure that you have gained access to things which should be your right, without going through so many steps to ensure you are innocent enough to warrent such priviledges? (For example a hand-gun permit or a drivers license.)

    So, my thinking is that we should all have to go through some ID process on a Federal level, perhaps even get it when you are young and then have it updated every five to ten years, just to keep your physical description straight. And, the ID should be free, with NO taxes.

    Your National ID would provide you with a Federal number, and a random password unique only to you. And it would give you access to a national computer registration system which would allow you to see your record, update your address, password etc., and even give you access to your military, college, medical, taxes, and whatever else may be recorded as you go through life. All the data would be accessable to you, and it would be catagorized so that only agencies governing certain aspects would have access to. (For example, Social Security would have only access to your SS contributions, and Law Enforcement only access to any criminal recordings.)

    But, for the advantages: With a Federal ID, you could virtually vote anywhere, using your ID and your unique password, you should be able to walk into any government building (P.O, local voting center, town hall, or city chamber) and cast your vote "electronically" into a National database during a single couple of days or a week in which voting was designated. In that manner, the tally would be almost immediate, and "fraud" at any level would be eliminated. No duplicates would be accepted and any attempt at duplication would be immediately tallied by time and location so they could be dealt with swifty. (I've designed databases... so that part is relatively easy and not complex... except in the enormity of the national system.)

    With a Federal ID, there would be no question as to your citizenship, you card would contain your photo, blood type, fingerprint or some other physical "print" unique only to you. Any check would immediately show whether you are here legal or not.

    It would also be able to clear your "background" quickly, as any criminal or psychological history should be immediately known on checking. So, proper "authority" should have no trouble licensing your weapons permit. And, with a Federal ID you should be able to travel with any such weapon that you have gained a permit for. All the proper data would be contained so that any crime could be trace back to the individual and even to the point where you would be able to clear yourself easily as your ID, evidenced your placement somewhere else.

    Now I know, that this looks a lot like wearing "a cow bell" to some of you. And I can come up with a few concerns myself. But, what do you think? Does this offer some positive reforms to some of our problems and challenges, and does it need to be restricted in a manner where "oversight" and "application" is very limited? Like with all things, there can be positives and negatives... the question is how to minimize the latter, while making the former worthwhile.

    What do you think?

    CWS

  • #2
    Re: A Federal ID Card

    Its been proposed before, and one of the objections is that it puts too much information about you in one place, making it easy to abuse or if the system is hacked then used against your wishes.

    Others say it smacks of big brother. How do you not lose your right to not incriminate yourself when uncle knows everything about you already.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
    ---------
    sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: A Federal ID Card

      I think it's a good idea if it can be made foolproof. I saw a program about phoney ID's being made in bathrooms at some beach in california. They were so good that it was hard to tell them from the real thing. Getting back to the whole big brother and loss of privacy issue, slippery slope or not, what alternatives do we have to prevent many of the issues that arise from not having proper ID? A major concern would be exactly what information would be made available on the card, prior convictions, political associations, where would it end?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: A Federal ID Card

        We already have a Social Security Card.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: A Federal ID Card

          O yea more govt . Another $8000,000 zar
          I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: A Federal ID Card

            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
            We already have a Social Security Card.
            and soon we will have the social government to support it.
            ---------------
            Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
            ---------------
            “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
            ---------
            "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
            ---------
            sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: A Federal ID Card

              Okay, so you only see "Negatives"; and I would agree to everything you all just said.

              But in the case of just "ID" cards being conterfited... they already are; and, your Social Security card is NEVER supposed to be used for ID, though it is and in the process your Social Security number is almost everywhere. Even when someone applies for a Amateur Radion license, I'm supposed to get their Social Security number and send it to the national organization and the FCC and I am encouraged to keep a copy of that application form, which then means that I would have your SS# in MY database. But, I refuse to do that, and I encourage applicants to go get a Federal Tax ID number instead. I don't want to be responsible for either having your SS or for sending it to anyone else who really shouldn't have it either. For the purposes of an FCC license, or most everything else, why should anyone have your SS number?

              From a Federal Identification Card, or at least how I view it... IT would have the safe-guards while being put into practice. It's a fairly easy process to fix your ID in such a manner in a way where data is catagorized and pieces sit on various computers, and NOT all in one place. It also can be setup in a manner where any duplication is virtually inpossible... YOU are the one who sets the "password" after the initial setup and as the card gets used, there is constant varification that you and only you are the holder of that ID. With Social Security, anybody can use that number and there is no cross-check or varification that your use might be a duplicate of the original user. In other words, there is no system outside of the SS Department that cares or even checks that the number is in fact assigned to you.

              On a much smaller scale, we had several record keeping processes at work that recorded an employee and his or her various identifications. In an investigation, I looked at nine different areas and found that my own records had me "named" seven different ways. There was nothing linking any of those records together, not a single common field. So, that meant that should I have an accident, my ID card could not be linked to my medical records and thus nobody would know who my Doctor was. Personnel, while knowing my contact information with my family and the date of my employ and the department, wouldn't have a clue as to what courses and qualifications I might have obtained in the years I worked for the complany. The engineering support area had totally different records and even name, and the Security group had no idea of my clearances, lab access times, or for that matter even labs that I was keyed to. So, I started and designed an Employee Central Database, in which all the other data records were "related". So, while each department kept what they needed, no other department had access to all the data. However, Medical could get the contact information from HR, Security did get individual Department clearance records, and IT got access and certification data. Best benefit was that I while I no longer had to fill out certain forms over and over for clearance to other departments, I could just get an Add-on, as with a phone call, one could see I had already "jumped through the hoops."

              My thoughts were a wonderment as to how that might benefit individuals on a National basis with similar securities in place.

              CWS

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: A Federal ID Card

                Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                Now I know, that this looks a lot like wearing "a cow bell" to some of you. And I can come up with a few concerns myself. But, what do you think? Does this offer some positive reforms to some of our problems and challenges, and does it need to be restricted in a manner where "oversight" and "application" is very limited? Like with all things, there can be positives and negatives... the question is how to minimize the latter, while making the former worthwhile.

                What do you think?

                CWS
                It's a great idea CWS.

                I lost my SS card somewhere in S/E Asia in 1968, and never went back to get it, nor have I applied for new one to this day.
                Cards are lost all the time, so I'm thinking a bar code tatoo or an RF chip implant which I think is the best way to go.
                You can tie it all together with everything; computer, bank account, medical history, IRS, FBI, etc.

                Its being done with our pets right now. Why not infants, while they're still in the hospital. Forehead or wrist works for me.

                Just think, you're sitting on your Voto toilet counting your money. It's now wi-fied to your Obamacare provider, and the National Health Service, read (Death Panel). Within, seconds your RF chip starts to vibrate, meaning you need to check your email immediately.

                The email reads: " Get your house in order within the next 48 hours". Signed: Jack Bauer. 1-800-555-1212

                Rushing to the nearest "Obamacare clinic" to find out whats going on, you attempt to check in. Lo and behold, the medical receptionist informs you that your RF chip has expired: What's that mean, you ask? She then informs you that you need to log on to Dignity Memorial® Funeral Preplanning .
                With only 47 hours left, you need a drink. Hurrying to the nearest watering hole, you mosey up to the bar, and order an adult beverage. The bartender scans your forehead to debit your drink, but noooooo. The IRS has frozen your account, pending the death tax levy.

                Arriving home, you're solemnly greeted by your family. Seems that they they were all notified by their own RF chips of your pending demise, along with your lawyer, accountant, representatives of the State, County and City tax collection divisions and a welfare worker who is really there for your wife. Since there is nothing left of your estate after fees and taxes your wife is being shown what housing project she qualifies for and to sign up for her new EBT card so she can buy her allotted portion of food for a month.

                The next morning, after a fitful nights sleep, you pick up your smart phone and dial what you think is your best friends number to just say goodbye, but instead your call is re-routed. "Bauer" the voice on the other end of the line answers. "Just shoot me", you respond. He says, "OK, I'll pick you up in an hour".

                Yes, I do hear the cowbells ringing.

                Prelude:

                Dear Mrs. CWS.
                This letter is to inform you that your Voto toilet is being recalled, due a malware bug that has corrupted the diagnosis/data feed to NHS.
                Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you, and our sincerest apologies for your loss .

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: A Federal ID Card

                  I guess its a good idea but its one more thing to have to reapply for when your wallet goes over the side of the boat. Then there is the whole beaurocracy that would have to surround it and that will cost billions because the government can never do something without having to spend 8 times what is should normally cost. And then there will be the usual corruption involved and yadda yadda yadda. I say we annex Mexico and make it the 51st state.
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: A Federal ID Card

                    Originally posted by ArizonaPlumber View Post
                    It's a great idea CWS.

                    I lost my SS card somewhere in S/E Asia in 1968, and never went back to get it, nor have I applied for new one to this day.
                    Cards are lost all the time, so I'm thinking a bar code tatoo or an RF chip implant which I think is the best way to go.
                    You can tie it all together with everything; computer, bank account, medical history, IRS, FBI, etc.

                    Its being done with our pets right now. Why not infants, while they're still in the hospital. Forehead or wrist works for me.

                    Just think, you're sitting on your Voto toilet counting your money. It's now wi-fied to your Obamacare provider, and the National Health Service, read (Death Panel). Within, seconds your RF chip starts to vibrate, meaning you need to check your email immediately.

                    The email reads: " Get your house in order within the next 48 hours". Signed: Jack Bauer. 1-800-555-1212

                    Rushing to the nearest "Obamacare clinic" to find out whats going on, you attempt to check in. Lo and behold, the medical receptionist informs you that your RF chip has expired: What's that mean, you ask? She then informs you that you need to log on to Dignity Memorial® Funeral Preplanning .
                    With only 47 hours left, you need a drink. Hurrying to the nearest watering hole, you mosey up to the bar, and order an adult beverage. The bartender scans your forehead to debit your drink, but noooooo. The IRS has frozen your account, pending the death tax levy.

                    Arriving home, you're solemnly greeted by your family. Seems that they they were all notified by their own RF chips of your pending demise, along with your lawyer, accountant, representatives of the State, County and City tax collection divisions and a welfare worker who is really there for your wife. Since there is nothing left of your estate after fees and taxes your wife is being shown what housing project she qualifies for and to sign up for her new EBT card so she can buy her allotted portion of food for a month.

                    The next morning, after a fitful nights sleep, you pick up your smart phone and dial what you think is your best friends number to just say goodbye, but instead your call is re-routed. "Bauer" the voice on the other end of the line answers. "Just shoot me", you respond. He says, "OK, I'll pick you up in an hour".

                    Yes, I do hear the cowbells ringing.

                    Prelude:

                    Dear Mrs. CWS.
                    This letter is to inform you that your Voto toilet is being recalled, due a malware bug that has corrupted the diagnosis/data feed to NHS.
                    Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused you, and our sincerest apologies for your loss .
                    Yes We demand more Govt. ! And the SHEEPLE TURN IN THEIR MUSKETS !
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: A Federal ID Card

                      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                      I say we annex Mexico and make it the 51st state.
                      Great idea. What's another 112 million more mouths to feed, clothe, educate, house, hopefully next door to you and on your dime.
                      You should plan your next vacation to a border state and learn first hand what's heading your way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: A Federal ID Card

                        I find it humerous that since their crushing defeat in the last election, the republicans/conseratives are all of a sudden coming up with all sorts of programs and ideas that will cost millions if not billions of dollars. Seems like they have abandoned their earlier "smaller government" stance. Suddenly immigration reform is a big deal but actually doing something about it is going to cost a whole lot of money. I suspect it will cost more to do something about it than the problem itself costs which is why nothing was done in the past.
                        sigpic

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A Federal ID Card

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          I find it humerous that since their crushing defeat in the last election, the republicans/conseratives are all of a sudden coming up with all sorts of programs and ideas that will cost millions if not billions of dollars. Seems like they have abandoned their earlier "smaller government" stance. Suddenly immigration reform is a big deal but actually doing something about it is going to cost a whole lot of money. I suspect it will cost more to do something about it than the problem itself costs which is why nothing was done in the past.
                          And leading the pack is our very own, John McLame!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: A Federal ID Card

                            Thanks guys,

                            This went exactly where I thought it would and that was the purpose of the question.

                            It is, as you all agree, a perfectly stupid and silly idea and that was my point. One of the great "freedoms" we have in this country is to a very large degree the "secrecy" in which we pride ourselves.... it's NOBODY's business who we are, what we are doing, what we have done, or even who we might have done it to! We basically cling to the idea that this "autonomy" that we have somehow protects us from our own "evil government"... and for that, each and everyone of us therefore must have something to hide for fear that some office of our "Constitutional" government will seek us out for detainment and prosecution.

                            And therein lies a great flaw for most of us. For though we are quite defensive in this "secrecy", we expect our evil government to route out those people in our midst that shouldn't be here; the illegal immigrants, the terrorists, the non-taxpayers, the free-loaders, and the corrupt. But in our forever fear of "government" we feel no measure should be taken that would properly identify any of us as the good guys or the bad guys.... we all just desire to be as unidentifiable as possilble. But in so being, we still can complain about the government "red-tape" of trying to get something done on our behalf.


                            CWS

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: A Federal ID Card

                              Yes, it would cost billions and there would be plenty of red tape, but I'd like to know who the heck is in our county. Ten, or twenty millions illegals, God knows how many terrorists? We can't secure the borders so at the very least let's have a clue who is here. How much are the illegals costing us in lost American taxpaying jobs, unfunded school usage and healtchare benefits, along with costs to the legal system? National ID program and mandatory stop and search! I don't care if you're a 70 year old white guy, no ID, straight to the worst part of mexico! Same goes for the soccoer mom and her brood of rug rats, adios! Finally, I say everyone gets to keep their guns, only thing is no more metal bullets! Only rubber bullets, anyone caught with metal bullet mandatory 5yr prison sentence to be carried out in newly annexed mexico. We need law and order!!!

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