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  • #16
    Re: Apprentices

    That's bull Flux and you know it. Apprentices today must dedicate much more of their lives towards a license than those before. I'll speak for myself here. The State of Mass demanded 600 code hours and 8,000 OJT hours actively in the trade prior to even being able to test. If everything worked perfectly (Yeah right) That is a four year commitment. For me, it taken five years, I had a few military obligations in between. That is hardly a short term pain period. Plus, there is the slap in the face the state of CT gave me. It has been stated that worker should be worth his pay, okay fine! Well, I rolled up my sleeves and tried to apply for the CT E-2 license. They slammed the door right in my face with an additional 120 code hours (a full year and a half!), on top of my what I received from Mass. Now figure this. CT operates on the 2005 NEC cycle, two full code cycles behind Mass (Ground Zero for the NEC), they are six years behind the very state that issued me my license, yet deemed themsevles fit to show me the door. So how the hell am I suppose to improve? Start my own business? I would if I could. Oh sure I can commit another two years of schooling towards a masters, but lets not forget that is a very effective notice to give to my employer. Afterall, why keep me around if I plan on leaving? Plus, I cannot possible afford to start my own business, given today's costs to operate. I would be bankrupt in a week! Otherwise, I would roll up my sleeves, buy that van and load it, get that LLC, go through DCAM hell, then put my bids out there. But...no...those before me had gotten their licenses when they had much less time, class, and OJT requirements to get them! Bottom line, in this state, it takes seven years from first day apprentice, to master's , to be even allowed to run one;s own business in the electrical trade! That is the same commitiment would-be doctors enter when going through medical school! Just let that sink in.
    Last edited by tailgunner; 03-05-2013, 09:46 PM.

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    • #17
      Re: Apprentices

      Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
      That's bull Flux and you know it. Apprentices today must dedicate much more of their lives towards a license than those before. I'll speak for myself here. The State of Mass demanded 600 code hours and 8,000 OJT hours actively in the trade prior to even being able to test. If everything worked perfectly (Yeah right) That is a four year commitment. For me, it taken five years, I had a few military obligations in between. That is hardly a short term pain period. Plus, there is the slap in the face the state of CT gave me. It has been stated that worker should be worth his pay, okay fine! Well, I rolled up my sleeves and tried to apply for the CT E-2 license. They slammed the door right in my face with an additional 120 code hours (a full year and a half!), on top of my what I received from Mass. Now figure this. CT operates on the 2005 NEC cycle, two full code cycles behind Mass (Ground Zero for the NEC), they are six years behind the very state that issued me my license, yet deemed themsevles fit to show me the door. So how the hell am I suppose to improve? Start my own business? I would if I could. Oh sure I can commit another two years of schooling towards a masters, but lets not forget that is a very effective notice to give to my employer. Afterall, why keep me around of I plan on leaving? Plus, I cannot possible afford to start my own business, given today's costs to operate. I would be bankrupt in a week! Otherwise, I would roll up my sleeves, buy that van and load it, get that LLC, go through DCAM hell, then put my bids out there. But...no...those before me had gotten their licenses when they had much less time, class, and OJT requirements to get them! Bottom line, in this state, it takes seven years from first day apprentice, to master's , to be even allowed to run one;s own business in the electrical trade! That is the same commitiment would-be doctors enter when going through medical school! Just let that sink in.
      This is where your age is showing...or you're just clueless.

      Any Plumber on this forum will tell you it was MUCH tougher back then to even break into the Plumbing trade as you had to know someone. Ask any Plumber here why many don't know how to wipe a lead joint and the reasons behind that. When you comprehend that concept..then we can talk all about tests, and apprenticeships...k?

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      • #18
        Re: Apprentices

        No, not "K?"
        Enlighten us if you do not mind.

        Tell you what, I'll even trade here. I'll offer the concepts of commitment, frustration, and finally disappointment.
        Last edited by tailgunner; 03-05-2013, 10:08 PM.

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        • #19
          Re: Apprentices

          Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
          No, not "K?"
          Enlighten us if you do not mind.

          Tell you what, I'll even trade here. I'll offer the concepts of commitment, frustration, and finally disappointment.
          The only thing I could possibly enlighten you on is the defeatist attitude you have. If we followed your logic, then that would mean there would no longer be any future small business owners.

          I blame the tough standards you have to deal with today on your politicians in your home state. Look around the country and the tough states to get licensed for anything, and they all have 1 thing in common I'm sure you could figure out on your own. Pennsylvania should easily be in that conversation, but we have politicians here who could care less about strict rules on tradesman. I ran through the gament with New Jersey a few years ago...as far as I'm concerned, they "try" and suppress the people trying to break into the Plumbing trade. The state of New Jersey has no business having a business law section on their Master Plumbers test, trying to brainwash their applicants to how much one "should" being charging for a job if you wish to work in their state. I took that test with Jersey residents taking the test for the 4th and 5th time...something is wrong.

          Anyways true story....

          My cousin is also a Plumbing & Heating Contractor that learnt under my father. He just went back into business 4 years ago after a 5 year hiatus. When he went back into business, he didn't have 1 customer...ziltch!

          He used to do additions with builders his first go around, and not being paid put him out of business.

          Today he's doing just fine, even though things are slow for everyone.

          When I read what you wrote above...you should place blame squarely on your state, and the people who makes those decisions. The problem with people today is that they want things and they want them NOW!!

          I and most others paid are dues to the trade...we worked our way up to get to where we are today. Even though my father built this business, it would seem unfair and like my father is just "handing" me a business. it sure does look that way doesn't it? But except it's not!

          This business is no good to me if I don't know how to do the work. Even though the business is in my name now..I'm still an Indian in this company and I'm 40 years old. The day I reach Chief status then i will know all the hard work I put into this has paid off, but I've been at this since I was 13 years old.

          I never had that mentality that someone "owed" me a living. If that ever came out of my mouth, my father would of slapped the taste out of my mouth, and he would do it today at 66 years of age.

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          • #20
            Re: Apprentices

            Flux, You kept your word, I'll uphold mine, but it is late, so I'll owe you a response for tomorrow.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Apprentices

              Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
              That's bull Flux and you know it. Apprentices today must dedicate much more of their lives towards a license than those before. I'll speak for myself here. The State of Mass demanded 600 code hours and 8,000 OJT hours actively in the trade prior to even being able to test. If everything worked perfectly (Yeah right) That is a four year commitment. For me, it taken five years, I had a few military obligations in between. That is hardly a short term pain period. Plus, there is the slap in the face the state of CT gave me. It has been stated that worker should be worth his pay, okay fine! Well, I rolled up my sleeves and tried to apply for the CT E-2 license. They slammed the door right in my face with an additional 120 code hours (a full year and a half!), on top of my what I received from Mass. Now figure this. CT operates on the 2005 NEC cycle, two full code cycles behind Mass (Ground Zero for the NEC), they are six years behind the very state that issued me my license, yet deemed themsevles fit to show me the door. So how the hell am I suppose to improve? Start my own business? I would if I could. Oh sure I can commit another two years of schooling towards a masters, but lets not forget that is a very effective notice to give to my employer. Afterall, why keep me around if I plan on leaving? Plus, I cannot possible afford to start my own business, given today's costs to operate. I would be bankrupt in a week! Otherwise, I would roll up my sleeves, buy that van and load it, get that LLC, go through DCAM hell, then put my bids out there. But...no...those before me had gotten their licenses when they had much less time, class, and OJT requirements to get them! Bottom line, in this state, it takes seven years from first day apprentice, to master's , to be even allowed to run one;s own business in the electrical trade! That is the same commitiment would-be doctors enter when going through medical school! Just let that sink in.
              It takes 8 for the State of Texas. I understand your frustration. I knew more at the age of 12 working with my dad than most. I couldn't get an apprentice card until I was 16, I waited 5 years so that I could just take the Oklahoma contractors license and by-passed the Journeyman. Then I moved to California, and there was no license required, so I was stuck working with a bunch of HACKS. I quit after 3 months, took the test there (EASY PEASY) and opened my own business, Then I moved to Texas, because I hated the State of California double standard, I don't know how anyone can operate a business there. Had to take the Master plumbing test for Texas. Out of all of these States, Oklahoma was the toughest. Now it is cake from what I here. Even with growing up in a family business and being a part of the ins and outs. Owning your own, is a KICK IN THE FACE. There is so much to know. I have been blessed to be Married to a C.P.A, but even then we have found ourselves in trouble with various things. It is Crazy, I am convinced that no one can do it right all of the time. I learn something new every year, and have to study to make sure that I am up to date on everything. Here is a small list of what I did the last two days.

              Worked in the field; yard leak, sprinkler leak, repaired a shower head, replaced a cartridge,
              Returned 48 phone calls to customers
              Returned emails to customers
              Scheduled customers
              Ordered parts for me and the other guy for upcoming jobs
              Called to find out, why parts haven't arrived.
              Invoiced commercial customer
              Called customers that owe me money
              Went over permits, to see which water heaters haven't been inspected
              Called homeowners to find out why they didn't let the inspector in
              Called to see if I can get re-inspection fee waived for homeowner being stupid
              Went to the Post office box to see if checks came from customers that lied about sending checks
              Made a small deposit
              Turned in a Handyman for doing plumbing without a license
              Looked through pictures of faucets on the internet trying to find a part for a customer
              Tried to figure out, if I the Sales tax for commercial work went through.
              Tried to figure out the State of Texas how the use tax is changing.
              Went to Ridgid forum to read about everyone else's problems so that mine seem small.
              and on and on and on again.
              Make no mistake, owning your own, is no joke. It will be both the American Dream and NIGHTMARE. At the same time sometimes with sprinkles on top.
              "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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              • #22
                Re: Apprentices

                Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
                That is the same commitiment would-be doctors enter when going through medical school! Just let that sink in.
                I would like to highlight your comparison involves a person who is out of pocket $200 000 to $400 000 by the end of their schooling (depending on what it was they pursued).

                A trades person actually earns an ever increasing wage as they progress though their apprentice process.

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                • #23
                  Re: Apprentices

                  Originally posted by Plumbingbyjay View Post
                  Returned 48 phone calls to customers
                  When things were super busy, we would average 8-10 phone calls a day with 6-8 service calls a day.

                  I couldn't imagine 48 phone calls to return.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Apprentices

                    48 phone calls, wow that would suck. That's a couple hours of work right there. Personally I hate it when I get a "talker" on the phone lol like you are their long lost friend and they want to reminisce about nothing in particular as you have nothing in common but they try none the less.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Apprentices

                      It is CRAZY Busy. Today alone, I had over 10. It starts to slow down towards the end of the week.
                      "don't put that in your mouth, you don't know where it's been"

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