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  • Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

    Folks on this Forum seemed very sure that communist china and russia would not attack the USA if we were to use military force against iran or north korea. I wonder if they still feel the same as tensions rise and the USA recieves threats of nuclear attack from north korea? I read some statement by a communist chinese defense minister hwere he said the future of communsit china depended on the destruction of the American people by bioweapons and ground troops. Doesn't sound so far fetched when weighed against their gains to be had as one of our credit holders? They say they have too many people and we have plenty of land and natural resources. Possible?

  • #2
    Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

    For the exact reasons that you state, "gains to be had as one of our credit holders?" I don't think they would... there are NO gains to be had regarding the "debt". Hey Frank, let's put it into a personal perspective: If you're business partner owed you several million dollars, would you attack him, kill him, or even take steps to put him out of business? He owes you money and he continues to make payments, even though he may well be running up even higher tabs. If you take away his buying power, you loose your number 1 customer and trading partner.

    Don't forget also, that not only does this partner buy all your stuff, but he has thousands of representatives, engineers, and investors who are clamoring at giving you all the help they can, and even willing to pay-off any and all in thier zeal to provide jobs in your country (China). Haven't you ever heard of the old Chinese proverb, "Don't bite the hand that fills your bowl with rice!"

    You should understand that there are people in China, just like there are here.... all too willing to demonize and go to war! Political and belligerant ignorance isn't just an American traight you know. With the virtual collapse of the Euro economy, China needs to have the American consumer buying all they can.

    Regarding the statement about China needing our land... maybe you havn't notices the recent news stories of all the empty cities in China. They have plenty of land, and a vast surplus of outstanding housing. What they don't have is a solution for thier increasing pollution and tottering economy, which is very much dependant on being friends and partners to thier American customer base.

    CWS

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    • #3
      Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

      CWS, to answer your question about the business partner, I could see killing him if he had valuble possessions I could acquire by his passing. Why would communist china either alone of with the help of russia care about collecting on our debt if they could acquire our country and all it's natural resources? They would also deal a death blow to democracy and religion. Seems plausable.

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      • #4
        Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

        Perhaps Dennis Rodman has a definitive answer to your question Frank.
        ================================================== ====
        All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to criticism.

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        • #5
          Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          CWS, to answer your question about the business partner, I could see killing him if he had valuble possessions I could acquire by his passing. Why would communist china either alone of with the help of russia care about collecting on our debt if they could acquire our country and all it's natural resources? They would also deal a death blow to democracy and religion. Seems plausable.
          Frank,

          I think you have been listening to too many who think that the United States and our way of life is much adored and coveted by everyone. NOT SO my friend, simply NOT SO! I've known people from China and Russia... some of them admire our lifestyle, most of them admire our minimal corruption, and probably there's a majority of them that like our "democracy", or at least the idea of it. What they don't admire is the high cost of living here, the expensive food especially. Most of them don't like some of our moral behaviour or our nastiness when it comes to living together.

          Really, do you think that our since of "democracy" is such a threat that they would want to snuff it out? Or even our religion... sadly, our religion is doing a pretty good job of snuffing itself out all by itself... it really doesn't need China.

          Listen, America is a great country, but it isn't nearly as coveted as many of us might think. China and Russia don't covet our lifestyle, but our politics and especially our Republican imperialistic tendencies scare the hell right out of them.

          CWS

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          • #6
            Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

            Sorry CWS, I thought this on my very own. I figure if communist china suppresses democracy, human rights and the practice of religion why not take out the USA, and reap the rewards of our land? I don't think it's so far fetched and it has nothing to do with emulating our way of life. If their agenda is to spread communism, and strengthen their position as a world power, what better way? Do you really think they would choose for us to someday in some fantasy to repay our debt, or to just take us out? They know we are broke. I have a feeling folks to truly think for themselves would agree communist china, possibly with the help of russia would try a military move against us.

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            • #7
              Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

              saber rattling and posturing. Par for the course. The chinese are not about to screw up their biggest market and the N Koreans are too weak from hunger to be able to fight
              sigpic

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              • #8
                Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                saber rattling and posturing. Par for the course. The chinese are not about to screw up their biggest market and the N Koreans are too weak from hunger to be able to fight
                What will happen if communist china refuses to ship us our tools?

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                • #9
                  Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                  Where's Harry truman when You need Him ?
                  I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                  • #10
                    Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    What will happen if communist china refuses to ship us our tools?
                    Okay... NOW YOU HAVE ME Frank!

                    I cannot begin to tell you the number of nights that I have simply not been able to sleep or have woken in a cold, sweaty panic about this!

                    My wife will tell you, and that is why I still keep my old and trusty brace and bit set, a couple of handsaws, and my JC Higgins hunting knife safely oiled and stored away. I'll still able to cut and bore and carve my way until my days are done.

                    You know Frank, the Chinese are moving toward "Democracy" faster then you think... perhaps not as fast as we're moving away from it though. If you ever have a chance to actually sit down and converse with someone from China, you really ought to take the opportunity to do so. China (or at least the Chinese that I've come to know and the history that is there) doesn't hate "Democracy"; and actually, neither do the Russians. If you look back at history, you will see that our two countries (China and the U.S. or Russia and the U.S.) have gotten along a lot better than Russia and China have.

                    During WWII and prior, we were actually supporting allies of both countries and we had good trade relations as well as military cooperation in most all but a few differences. Of course China changed at the end of the war, but none-the-less it extended a hand which was promptly refused. Yet today, China and the United States are very GOOD trading partners. The problems and differences between Russia and the U.S. has largely been that we've done a few things that has led to a great distrust. In Russia, I think "distrust" is a complex flaw of thier history and therefore sort of inbread in their society... but we, the United States certainly hasn't helped them past that either. Likewise, our interests in China have pretty much been the same.

                    Both Churchhill and Eisenhower in thier writings after the war alluded to Russia in the same manner and I think the Chinese Communist have pretty much the same opinion of our Democracy. It is hard for them to visualize how such a clumsy system works. I can't find the quote at the moment, but I believe it was Eisenhower in his "Crusade in Europe" that defined this point of view as "Democracy being successful only for the enrichment of those empowered, at the cost to the working class" (that is paraphrased and NOT a quote... I'll try to find the exact phrase). Communism, in thier eyes was rule by a collective for the enrichment of not just the few, but of the masses.

                    Of course we know that doesn't work entirely, and in Communism there is much corruption where absolute power seems to work best for the few in control. But, it's view of Democracy certainly isn't totally flawed either and all you have to do is look at the last thirty years of our Democracy to see that their appraisel is pretty close to being true.... it really is that rich 1% that fanagles most of the profits by disadvantaging the working class.

                    CWS

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                    • #11
                      Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                      " it really is that rich 1% that fanagles most of the profits by disadvantaging the working class." Really? The disadvantaged working class for all our complaints are doing better than most of the rest of the world. Our nonworking class get plenty of entitlements and live better than most of the communist chinese, if I'm not mistaken. I would say our democracy trumps their communism. I'm sure that most of the chinese people can only dream of living with our rights and freedoms as flawed as they may be. Let me know when the chinese can decide the size of their families, openly protest against the government and openly pray to whatever God they choose, and I'll agree they are moving towards our democracy. We are a work in progress, taking steps backwards but still many steps ahead of most of the world. I believe we live in the greatest country in the world with the best government. Now that I'm not on the drone kill list, would you and the Kid like to apologize for anything?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                        Frank,

                        Please don't think that I'm the least bit anti-American, I'm as big a patriot as anyone, and a helluva lot more dedicated than most. But please don't think that our form of government "Democracy" is ideal or even well thought of or sought after by everyone. It isn't! Just look at the middle east, specifically Iran, Iraq, Afganistan.... When the Iranians overthrew the Shah, it open-heartedly grasped the secular governing of Islam. Yes, the Shah was to a large degree a dictator, but the living conditions, religious freedoms, and rights for women were much closer to U.S. ideals and we were the prime supporter of that country.

                        When we kicked Saddam Hussien out of Iraq, and tried to introduce our version of Democracy, it was overwhelming rejected in favor of an Islamic-based government. Prior to first election, a survey by several news agencies found that everyone want thier version of Islam to be an influencing part of their new government... in other words, there was to be no "separation of church" and state there.

                        In Afganistan, we are dealing with massive corruption and much of our military deaths are a direct result of the people's preferance for an Islamic-based government.

                        In Russia, they have a Bill or Rights too... one of those Rights, is the Right to Work! We don't have that here! When my friend came here he was in great fear of our "gangsters", and one of the first things he did was buy a gun.... he liked that freedom we have. He didn't like how much our food costs though and he thought our selection (at Wegman's) was rather deplorable. He also didn't like the fact that our workplaces were so dominated by management, or the fact that our medical care was almost impossibly expensive. He also very much didn't like the unfriendliness that he found with most people here... he did admit that we were a lot better than the French though.

                        My friends from China were astounded by the lack of great shopping in a city of our size. Again, medical was very bizarre to them, especially the expense of it. Food here was better "organized" and they liked Wegmans, though they thought the prices were very high. They liked our indepedance, but also didn't like our independance, as they found us very, very unsociable.

                        Engineers from India, thought we were far too lacking in "community". One my friends said that seemed to be "locked into our little cubicles", where we independantly work out our assignments, and then "then we leave and lock ourselves into our houses and watch television". In India, they apparently work together and when they go home they are all sharing in the neighborhoods with open meals and socializing.

                        I think the point is that we are all different, and yet all want the similar things for our families... like security and happiness. Common themes about "government" (no matter what government) is concerns for corruption and wrong doing. It isn't like any of us want communism or a dictator, but we have to understand too that everyone in the world doens't nececssarily want Democracy either.

                        CWS

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                        • #13
                          Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                          CWS, I don't think you are unAmerican to criticize, heck, that's one of the great things that separates us from places like communist china!
                          I am well aware that we don't have a perfect democracy which is why I referred to it as "A work in progress". I do believe that for all the faults your friends and acquantices mentioned, they are still very happy to be in the greatest country in the world. There will probably always be abuses, injustices and room for improvement because with all our laws, rights, checks and balances we cannot predict the human element in all this. Frank

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                          • #14
                            Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                            China would not mess with us because we are their cash cow.

                            We are a Republic, not a Democracy.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Cina, russia, iran and north korea?

                              John,

                              In fact, we are a "Democratic Repubic". We democratically elect our "representatives". In a strict "Republic" the representatives are often put into office by appointment or by historical status, for example the UK used to be just a Republic, in that it's House of Lords which dominated the representative government of the time, was entitled to office by inheritance and/or by the appointment to "Lord" status by a grant from the King.

                              CWS

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