Announcement

Announcement Module
Collapse

How To Post Images

Want to know the how to upload images to your posts? Image Posting Tutorial
See more
See less

I Love The People Here!

Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Re: I Love The People Here!

    Originally posted by Plumber Punky View Post
    Even after all these pages... the theme of the topic is still the same...the subject has evolved a bit. The people here are still better than *over there*. Even intense debate here has not caused even one person to fall to name calling. *Over there* all you need to do is ask a question...

    Continue on
    Overall the people are pretty decent on here. Even though I don't agree with NMH on this I do agree with a lot of his political views.

    Comment


    • Re: I Love The People Here!

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      I'm wondering how many of those MDs are helping DIYs with doing their own procedures?

      Mark
      Mark, Couldn't get closer to the bull's eye than that comment.................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Comment


      • Re: I Love The People Here!

        Originally posted by blue_can View Post
        I cannot speak for where you are located NMH but here as far as I know all trades are licensed - there is nothing special about plumbing. Examples have been provided as to the dangers of jobs done incorrectly on other things - a wheel falling off a car, a stone slab in a shower coming loose and falling off killing someone or a poorly framed house collapsing. But yet under our system an individual has a right to do the work on their own property - around here as long as it is permitted and inspected it does not matter who did the job. Doing work for others and for compensation is a different matter and due to the liability the party doing the work should be licensed and insured. To me DIY is a special category - even the medical examples that are frequently quoted - as far as I know thee is nothing illegal about attempting you own medical procedure and killing yourself in the process - if you do it to someone else it becomes a very different matter.
        I too have been reading this on and off for the duration. we all agree there will always be DIYs. So too will there always be shitty tradesmen who bring down our reputation and the reputation of all good honest conscientious Tradesmen. Just out of left field, if we get rid of Solicitors then the Insurance Companies will also disappear and we can deregulate the industry and we can all do what we want.
        One comment I must pick up on is that some are deliberately ignoring simple principles. We were brought up to respect our Licence. We were taught it was a privilege not right. However this seems to have been lost here through greed. yes many tradesmen are slack and some never quite complete as they should. But back up for a moment and understand that this is generally our livelihood. Isnt it amazing how we walk into a situation, listen to the HO or their wife telling you what they think is going on and we reach for RIDGID solution. We all work for money, even engineers, and some of us care enough to do the right thing by our clients.
        Now there is one other perspective to look at as well. There is only so much time in the day and we really cant do everything. Even Rick goes home to his beautiful daughter and participates in her rapid rate of growing up. So if we all hire pros and focus on what we all do well then the world keeps turning round, money goes around and we all have "me time" and prepare to one day come downunder for a roundup where we can give some good old "aussie aussie aussie oi oi oi" hospitality.
        Fact:- We will never stop DIYs. We will never stop dodgy tradesmen damaging our good name. We will never all be happy here talking about this subject.
        But hey, i'm getting too old to argue.

        Comment


        • Re: I Love The People Here!

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          To expand on protecting the consumer, licensing is also to protect all of us from the work your handy neighbor does. One of the tracts in Southern California
          with 1,600 homes was having problems with nasty looking and smelling domestic water. Who knew connecting to a reclaimed water supply line could affect the entire neighborhood?

          Mark
          Mark similar thing happened here when they started using recycled water. NO CONTROL...........!!!!!
          Then there is the ones where they connect the gas heater to the water supply and somehow flood the mains.
          Our association has the Greek Goddess HYGEIA as our mascot. So she is the GODDESS of health. Isnt this what we are supposed to be entrusted with, the Health and Safety of the community at large.
          Rick was right earlier when he said small jobs, menial tasks ok. Professional information - no free hamburgers at MACCAs is there...............!!!

          Comment


          • Re: I Love The People Here!

            Originally posted by blue_can View Post
            This I don't fully understand. I can understand feeling this way if someone calls you in for an estimate and picks your brain with the intention of not giving you the job and planning to do it themselves.

            However, I cannot understand feeling this way about someone asking a question on an online forum. Someone comes along and throws a question out. Most people I assume are relaxed while browsing the internet and forum and can if they choose to do so answer the question and get involved in the discussion or stay out of it. So I’m not following why this is offensive. It’s not like someone is forcing you to answer the question which is the way some people behave.

            Speaking for myself I have a few plumbing books and in reality can undertake most pluming jobs I need to do without asking questions here. I very often do because when you get a lot of answers from different people you can end up thinking of ideas you had not thought of before and other plumbers can learn from that idea too. So I think getting involved with discussions is a great learning experience for everyone.

            There is no correct way to do business but sometimes giving out info can help you out in the long term over being rigid about it. Here is an example – I was at a plumbing supply house and was looking at some pex fittings. I think I was there for something else but ended up at the fittings (just browsing). Another plumber was there and accidentally dropped some fittings. I helped him pick them up and got talking. He started advising me about the Uponor fittings, how they work etc. He spent a fair bit of time talking to me and I was quite impressed since he obviously knew a fair bit. He was just being friendly but I picked his brains a fair bit. I was sufficiently impressed to get his card and pass it on to some friends who I knew were looking for a plumber.

            Just a thought on free advice – it’s not always a bad thing to give out sometimes.
            I actually encourage HO's to go buy books on diy. most of the ones we see still refer to lead wiping, clay pipe and threading steel pipe. Havent picked up one yet that teaches the propress(especially the Rick collection.......hehehhehehehe). Most of the books are so outdated it is good. Read what you like but unless you have the gift and "know what you are doing" you really are just pretending.

            Comment


            • Re: I Love The People Here!

              Now just following up on an earlier post of mine and with full respect late today we had a serious accident happen where two young students have lost their lives. A third is critical. We had a brick wall "blown over" in high winds on the perimeter of a commercial development. There will undoubtably be numerous investigations but there is an Engineer out there somewhere who has really stuffed up. Now I don't want to start a **** fight here but it does demonstrate that as good as we all are we are human and we do make mistakes. Unfortunately there were innocent casualties. However this does go back further where the educators who want to settle for the 40% of the already discounted 70% should think seriously about everything from here on. So too in our trade, educators have to stand up and fail those that deserve to fail. Lift the standard and we get the respect. Get rid of the hacks in all industry and ..............sorry just dreaming again.

              Seriously, a moment of pray for the innocent.

              Comment


              • Re: I Love The People Here!

                Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                This I don't fully understand. I can understand feeling this way if someone calls you in for an estimate and picks your brain with the intention of not giving you the job and planning to do it themselves.

                However, I cannot understand feeling this way about someone asking a question on an online forum. Someone comes along and throws a question out. Most people I assume are relaxed while browsing the internet and forum and can if they choose to do so answer the question and get involved in the discussion or stay out of it. So I’m not following why this is offensive. It’s not like someone is forcing you to answer the question which is the way some people behave.
                I'll explain it like this and maybe you can understand me...

                We currently have an active thread on this website in where a "builder" is asking a question on how to do something regarding a sewer drain. Now, one of the main reasons why Plumbers have to be licensed is because of the "sewer" side of our trade. I'm pretty sure he has to be a Licensed Plumber in order to touch a sewer line out side of his home. There for everyone to see...Licensed Plumbers chiming in helping this guy along knowing full well this guy is "most likely" breaking the law in his own state.

                You will see a builder buy a house at auction,rehab it and do his own plumbing, and turn it around for a quick sale. In my state you can't be unlicensed if you're doing that, but you're fine if it's your own home you're selling.

                I've seen many threads on this website in where non plumbers have jobs they are working on (not their home) and they hired themselves out for the Plumbing side of things. But yet the customers they are working for, have no clue that they hired non licensed Plumbers to touch the Plumbing in their home, whether it was done by design or by accident.

                Now back to my point...if this guy was a Plumber, his elementary question would of never graced this website. But yet he mentioned an inspector, and I wonder if that inspector knows he's not a licensed Plumber. If he is licensed, then I am to assume he "bought" his Plumbing license.

                So that is why I take the stance I do.
                Last edited by Flux; 03-28-2013, 07:37 AM.

                Comment


                • Re: I Love The People Here!

                  Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                  Is it a "plumbers only" forum. I know a lot of people on here are over there with the same name
                  No, I've seen that website before and it's not the one I'm talking about.

                  Comment


                  • Re: I Love The People Here!

                    Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                    One point I would like to make on this is that online people cannot really determine someone's level of expertise and their capability - some people may just be able change out a faucet cartridge and other can do a lot more. NHM certainly cannot determine what is simple and what is not as it highly varies depending on the person and of course online it is very hard to judge. My view is if you are going to help, enlighten the person on what needs to be done and let them make the determination. Most people I know are well aware of what they can or cannot do.
                    Exactly and that's why we have licensing. One thing I can guarantee is that homeowners and handy hacks don't even come close to having the experience necessary to deal with things that ain't in the book. I can also pretty much guarrantee that 90% of the DIY'ers say they are getting a permit and inspections but in reality, have no intention of doing so. After all, permits cost money. And I disagree with your statement that most people are well aware of what they can and cannot do. Most have no clue whatsoever and are only concerned with saving a buck.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • Re: I Love The People Here!

                      Originally posted by Flux View Post
                      I'll explain it like this and maybe you can understand me...

                      We currently have an active thread on this website in where a "builder" is asking a question on how to do something regarding a sewer drain. Now, one of the main reasons why Plumbers have to be licensed is because of the "sewer" side of our trade. I'm pretty sure he has to be a Licensed Plumber in order to touch a sewer line out side of his home. There for everyone to see...Licensed Plumbers chiming in helping this guy along knowing full well this guy is "most likely" breaking the law in his own state.

                      You will see a builder buy a house at auction,rehab it and do his own plumbing, and turn it around for a quick sale. In my state you can't be unlicensed if you're doing that, but you're fine if it's your own home you're selling.

                      I've seen many threads on this website in where non plumbers have jobs they are working on (not their home) and they hired themselves out for the Plumbing side of things. But yet the customers they are working for, have no clue that they hired non licensed Plumbers to touch the Plumbing in their home, whether it was done by design or by accident.

                      Now back to my point...if this guy was a Plumber, his elementary question would of never graced this website. But yet he mentioned an inspector, and I wonder if that inspector knows he's not a licensed Plumber. If he is licensed, then I am to assume he "bought" his Plumbing license.

                      So that is why I take the stance I do.
                      I’m still not seeing your point exactly.

                      Regarding assessing who people are on the net is not easy. Here is an example which was my personal experience.

                      I have been a non-regular on this site – in other words I stop by from time to time but on occasions I have not really had the time or been busy with other things to post.

                      I stopped by some months ago and asked a question about cutting copper pipe and it was related to re-plumbing my bathroom. I was told that I was over my head etc and I should hire a licensed plumber. In any event as usual Plumber Rick stepped up and gave me a helpful answer. The bathroom was duly re-plumbed by me, the job was permitted and went through inspection and approval. I was complemented on the job by the inspector who is the boss of the inspectors and has been with our city for over 20 years (he was supervising an inspector who was new and was learning so they both came for the inspection). He was impressed with things like the extra and solid bracing for the pipes which generally is not done.

                      It is a major remodel and since then I have had 4 more inspections with 3 more to do including a fair bit of electrical work and re-wiring.

                      Point is I was deemed by many on here to be over my heads. They were completely incorrect.

                      So what you say about the specific thread you referenced may not reflect the poster’s circumstances. You could be right – we really don’t know. If you don’t want to help don’t get involved but I think it’s going a bit far to be getting upset that others are answering the questions and so forth.

                      Comment


                      • Re: I Love The People Here!

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        One thing I can guarantee is that homeowners and handy hacks don't even come close to having the experience necessary to deal with things that ain't in the book.
                        Can you give some examples? You cannot guarantee anything without proving this is true for every person on the planet. If you can show a scientific study which proves this sure I'll be willing to buy it but not otherwise.

                        Comment


                        • Re: I Love The People Here!

                          Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                          I’m still not seeing your point exactly.

                          Regarding assessing who people are on the net is not easy. Here is an example which was my personal experience.

                          I have been a non-regular on this site – in other words I stop by from time to time but on occasions I have not really had the time or been busy with other things to post.

                          I stopped by some months ago and asked a question about cutting copper pipe and it was related to re-plumbing my bathroom. I was told that I was over my head etc and I should hire a licensed plumber. In any event as usual Plumber Rick stepped up and gave me a helpful answer. The bathroom was duly re-plumbed by me, the job was permitted and went through inspection and approval. I was complemented on the job by the inspector who is the boss of the inspectors and has been with our city for over 20 years (he was supervising an inspector who was new and was learning so they both came for the inspection). He was impressed with things like the extra and solid bracing for the pipes which generally is not done.

                          It is a major remodel and since then I have had 4 more inspections with 3 more to do including a fair bit of electrical work and re-wiring.

                          Point is I was deemed by many on here to be over my heads. They were completely incorrect.

                          So what you say about the specific thread you referenced may not reflect the poster’s circumstances. You could be right – we really don’t know. If you don’t want to help don’t get involved but I think it’s going a bit far to be getting upset that others are answering the questions and so forth.
                          I honestly could care less what people talk about on here work wise because it doesn't effect me directly. I quietly laugh at the hypocrites who talk out both sides of their mouth when a permit isn't pulled or someone isn't license. But yet those same people easily contribute to their own hypocrisy which make them look stupid in front of their peers. They are part of the problem in this trade that they so easily proclaim is going down hill.

                          It's only affects me and insults me when a customer calls me out to their home and tries to pick my brain on how to fix something and doesn't expect a bill afterwards.

                          Comment


                          • Re: I Love The People Here!

                            Originally posted by Flux View Post

                            It's only affects me and insults me when a customer calls me out to their home and tries to pick my brain on how to fix something and doesn't expect a bill afterwards.
                            If that happens or has happened to you I definitely sympathize and can understand your feelings.

                            Comment


                            • Re: I Love The People Here!

                              Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                              If that happens or has happened to you I definitely sympathize and can understand your feelings.
                              It happened the other day, and it ticked me off.

                              Now and then I'll get a customer who will say to me " it only took you 5 minutes to fix that problem, can you give me a pass this time and ill call you out for a bigger job next time?"

                              Ummmm what???

                              Yep it happens.

                              Comment


                              • Re: I Love The People Here!

                                Here in the state of Illinois, a home owner can do their own plumbing, electrical and other things that normally a licensed tradesman would do that is considered a minor repair. But there are requirements, one being the home owner needs to get a permit, follow all state and local codes, and must be doing work on his or her own home.

                                with the above stated, I see to many out there trying to do work without a permit, not following codes, and trying to work on properties that they either rent or do not own.

                                I had a guy call me to give him a price to upgrade his 1" water service to a 2" due to him having very poor water pressure through out his home. When I arrived to see where the service comes into the home, he walked me around to the different fixtures in the house showed me how bad the pressure was. I seen his true problem when I got to the basement. He repiped his whole house with pex. He did not increase the size of pipe, did not run a home run system, he just replaced all the copper with 1/2" pex. The home is a basic bath and a half bungalow about 1500 sq. ft.

                                I checked the flow at the meter, and pressure, and it was perfect, 60 PSI and filled a 5 gallon bucket in 20 seconds or so. I asked who plumbed in the pex, he proudly said he did. I asked him if he pulled a permit and or had it inspected, he replied "I DON"T NEED A PERMIT OR AN INSPECTION!!!" I politely explained to him that the state of Illinois does allow pex, per its code, but the city he is does not allow pex. Then explained to him that the way he piped it all is the reason he has very poor pressure. I told him the city would require a permit to do dig up his front yard and the parkway to make the new tap. Then I said when they come to inspect the new service, they will come inside to inspect the water meter connection. When that happens, they will find out you did plumbing with out a permit, and inform you its not to code. He told me to get the **** out of his house. A week later a plumbers truck was out front with a pile of pex in the yard. Found out the home owner was fined for no permits and once a home owner gets caught, they are now required to hire a licensed contractor.

                                My point of this post, is I do not mind a DIY person working on their own home, as long as they follow the laws and codes. But how do you know what they are doing in their home is to code? Every city, township and county has a variance of codes compared to the state codes. Most posters on the net refuse to tell you what city they are in. When I give advice I try to tell them to talk to the local inspector to find out local code requirements. In most cases I get a similar reply as the guy in my story " I DONT NEED TO FOLLOW CODES, OR GET A PERMIT!!!"
                                Last edited by SewerRatz; 03-29-2013, 08:37 AM.
                                Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
                                A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
                                Tankless Water Heaters | Drain and Sewer Cleaning
                                Sump and Ejector Pumps | Backflow RPZ Testing

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X