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  • #31
    Re: Capitalism

    I'm trying tool, really I am
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    • #32
      Re: Capitalism

      Call me what you want.

      Why don't you skip the lectures and just tell everyone to get off your lawn?

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      • #33
        Re: Capitalism

        Boobs

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        • #34
          Re: Capitalism

          "Patriotism isn't dying for the corporate flag and it certainly isn't for going along with a party that so totally supports and protects "BUSINESS" that it is blind to the workers of that business. Patriotism isn't the support of a lop-sided government that fights for corporate profitability over labor, or labor's conquest over a company's survival. We as American citizens cannot let ourselves be so blinded by political deceit and twists of truths, than we can let the company itself, steal from our neighbors and our own families.

          And that is what has happened in the last thirty years, as CEO's decide that China and India are places to manufacture because there is no regulation, no minimum wage, no safety, and no standards or regulation that gets in the way of increasing profit margins.

          AND, I totally disagree with anyone who says that it has gotten to be that way only because Americans want the cheapest things to buy! That is utterly nonsense and if that was the case, we'd only be eating at McDonald's and driving Ford's cheapest crap.

          CWS "

          I totally agree! Profit without the concern of "at what cost to other Americans" is neither patriotic nor smart. Consumers who only care about the cheapest , or least expensive end up with poor quality goods and an unhealthy diet. I blame part of our loss of successful small, privately owned businesses that employed Americans and supported the tax base on both political parties in washington who allowed themselves to be entertained by lobbyists. I refuse to believe that our brilliant legislators did not foresee the damage done to America
          by doing nothing to stop the outsourcing of American jobs. I repeat "free trade, and open markets" are the vocabulary of people who are clueless of the facts. We are not free to trade and their markets are not open to us! I can only assume that the folks in charge of communist china are not so careless with their economy as to encourage it's demise. What the heck were our leaders thinking as the jobs left and unemployment and inflation grew? Disgraceful.

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          • #35
            Re: Capitalism

            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
            Allow me to give my two cents worth on this antiAmerican, unPatriotic thread As I see it, the problem is once again lack of foresight. Home town, privately owned stores that put back more of their income into the community were for the most part displaced by the powerful big box stores. Now a lot of the big box stores are losing market share to Internet companies that don't have the same overhead( physical building, utilities, employees, insurances, etc). I hate to demonize the word "capitalism", because by definition even the small privately owned business falls under that heading. We are seeing the end game of capitalism which at first glance benefits the consumer with lower prices but ultimately costs many times more because of lost jobs, tax revenue and a whole host of ills not seen with smaller, local, privately owned stores.
            Had the jobs not been shipped off to india, mexico, communist china, etc, unemployment would not be so high, inflation would not be so out of control, there would be fewer very rich foreign investors and fewer Americans profiting from their stock investments rather than actually working for their money. The system is failed and in my opinion doomed to collapse. Too much money leaves the towns and cities, leaves the American consumers, only to profit others and never return.
            I'm not against profitting from a smart, honest business plan, but if it results in sucking the life blood from our communities, it becomes more of an insult to democracy and threat to our economic stability. Frank
            What has democracy got to do with capitalism China is a communist country yet they are now a capitalist economy and producing thousands of multi millionairs one thing I have noticed with Asians they ar born capitalist and always have been we in the west have always wanted to buy cheap and China is for filling what we want all you have to do is look in the mirror to find who is to blame for the predictermnet we are all in today I don`t know how it is in the US but our government have allowed monopolies to grow in Australia we have two supermarkets that have 80% of the market a couple of years ago they got into buying up service stations and when you buy over a certain amount of groceries you just take your docket to their service station and get 8cents off a letre of petrol and the fools who want cheap petrol are cutting their own throats as competition is being starved out and in the future there will be no competition but who cares its 8cents cheaper today and that is what capitalism is all about

            Tony

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            • #36
              Re: Capitalism

              Obviously, capitalism has nothing to do with democracy, or patriotism.

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              • #37
                Re: Capitalism

                I look at it this way, at least in capitalism and true capitalism, not this messed up hybrid we are experiencing with corporate welfare with government handouts, you for the most part willingly partake in the experiment. You can not spend your money on them if you so choose. With socialism you are forced to give your money to a bureaucrat for them to decide on whom to give it too.

                As to big bad corporate businesses not giving back to communities like smaller businesses.... that maybe with some businesses, but most give back, and A LOT! Look at Target, they donate a lot of money to their local school districts they serve.

                I'm torn on the China thing, part of it I understand as a business owner, part of it I hate being a business owner. I understand having to be competitive on pricing, and if to accomplish that you go overseas or fold, what do you do? Customers are ruthless bastards and most could careless what quality the item they are buying as long as its the cheapest. Heck, I look for the best price I can for things I buy, granted I try to buy quality items so I do pay a little more, but even then, its built outside our borders on occasion.

                I was talking to a friend of mine that is in the TV mount business and they just moved all their production equipment state side. Pulled it all from china and brought it home. BUT, its all mostly automated, its not hands on work type stuff. Labor rates are way to high he said for anything being put together by hand. So, you could bring them home and either pay workers less (but cant with minimum wag laws) or raise your prices, slap the "Made in USA" sticker on it and hope people buy it.... but they wont, and they buy the cheaper Chinese knock off. I'm not sure how you fix it. Taxing the imported goods at a high rate wont fix it either, as in reality it will just cause inflation to run through the roof and probably still not bring back the jobs.

                What really bugs me is why not drop corporate taxes to .01% across the board. Drop the commercial real-estate taxes to almost 0% but require businesses to pay for infrastructure upgrades when needed. And encourage businesses to bring work back here. Taxing a business only does one thing, raise the consumers purchasing price.

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                • #38
                  Re: Capitalism

                  Originally posted by Alphacowboy View Post
                  What really bugs me is why not drop corporate taxes to .01% across the board. Drop the commercial real-estate taxes to almost 0% but require businesses to pay for infrastructure upgrades when needed. And encourage businesses to bring work back here. Taxing a business only does one thing, raise the consumers purchasing price.
                  Alpha,

                  I sort of agree with much of what you said; however, I disagree with your thoughts on the corporate tax issue. First, let me say that the U.S. does have some of the highest corporate taxes, but I'm not sure that they are actually the "highest", as is often quoted.

                  But what good does a high rate or, any rate matter, when there are so many write-offs? I read somewhere this past fall, that two-thirds of American corporations pay absolutely NO TAXES! I know that the corporation that I used to work for paid very little taxes and I recall that the CEW of my employer's parent company bragged in Forbes Magazine that just by moving the corporate address to the Cayman's he saved the company $80,000,000!!! Today that great American manufacturer with more than a 100 years of historic industrial achievement, now is headquartered in Dublin, Ireland. I'm sure they do that because of patriotic reasons.

                  Likewise, most American pharmaceutical companies are either headquartered or have moved thier manufacturing out of the country.... again, TAXES breaks. What those companies claim to earn "overseas" it doesn't have to pay taxes on!

                  Likewise, the very plant, the vehicles, the marketing and sales force and even the labor and materials and repairs and warranty and service programs are all, to some extent, write-offs.

                  I don't know if you are incorporated in your business, but if you are, then you know the extent of savings that means for you. You and I as employees, and/or as "proprietorship's" are levied a tax on our entire incomes. We get a number of deductibles, which lower the gross income and that we pay taxes on. For a corporation, most all the costs of doing business are deductible. They can deduct from their gross sales, all the material, machining, packaging, marketing, and service costs. Including the labor. Some things like the cost of buildings, machines, and vehicles have to be am-mortised over time, but the maintenance, fuel, etc. are deducted on a yearly basis. Likewise, trips, meals, and other benefits can be deducted, to the point that NO profit is evident... and if there is profit, it can be spread out and played with to produce a negative. And then there are incentives and subsidies. The game IS to pay NO taxes or at least minimum taxes.

                  If you and I had the same rules, we'd divide the cost of our homes over a ten year period, and deduct it all, the car over five, the lawn tractor, appliances, etc. etc. Our meals and clothes and kids would all be 100% deductible too, as would our travel back and forth to work, and even our vacations if we can show that they are necessary to the well-being of our ability to keep our jobs.

                  The point is we are in debt, something that Franki often points out and the most of us totally agree with. But in consideration that lower taxes doesn't pay that down, and obviously hasn't created jobs since Reagan put us on the path to continued lower tax income! Lower taxes is what has driven us into the debt that we are and it doesn't make for any jobs and obviously it hasn't kept too many companies from moving there manufacturing elsewhere.

                  What we in fact need is higher taxes on those who unreasonably profit. We need to ensure that those who profit overseas, also pay U.S. taxes on that income. After all, they look to the U.S. for protection, for diplomatic pathways and insurances. The U.S. government provides well for those overseas ventures and resources and will come to their aid as they have in the past... so allowing them to make nontaxable profit in those ventures is totally absurd, from my point of view.

                  CWS

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                  • #39
                    Re: Capitalism

                    You guys are suppose to be grown ups so let's act like it.

                    Thanks -Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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                    • #40
                      Re: Capitalism

                      CW, I think you get argument because most folks don't really know what is going on behind the scenes. We are fed what the media (owned by big business) wants us to see and hear. The facts are out there (thanks for your contribution above), its just that its hard for the average person or low information voter as Rush likes to call them to take the time to educate themselves on the facts rather than the emotion.

                      In the end, all forms of government can be corrupted.
                      Last edited by NHMaster3015; 04-11-2013, 07:33 AM.
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                      • #41
                        Re: Capitalism

                        CW, that is exactly why I am for either a flat tax or consumption tax. Taxing productive and successful people more is counter productive, and eventually they will "shrug".

                        Higher revenue through taxes won't fix our problems, spending is our problem. We are spend way to much all across the board. Look at some of the articles as of late, spending money on snail sex research among many other bull crap spending. I say cut 10% of ALL spending. Pull our boys and bring them all home.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Capitalism

                          No doubt spending is problem and it will always be a problem because people want services and money put into their local projects. Its unrealistic to expect government to ever actually cut spending. I have asked this question a few times but its worth asking again. If it were put into your hands and you had the control, what would you cut and (here's the kicker) what would be the long term effects both socially and fiscally? Remember that every single legislator faces the same choice on a regular basis which should give you some insight into why a lot of the problems we have never seem to get solved.
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                          • #43
                            Re: Capitalism

                            People would freak out if I got to do the cutting. But, in a matter of a few years, the outcry would reduce as people realized life goes on. The true problems needing funding would be rectified. Its like ripping off the bandaid, it will hurt right away, but it gets better over time.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Capitalism

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              You guys are suppose to be grown ups so let's act like it.

                              Thanks -Mark
                              Thank God You're OK! Phoebe N Unkle Kevin have been worried sick !
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

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                              • #45
                                Re: Capitalism

                                Again I say... boobs

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