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Capitalism

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  • Capitalism

    I have seen a lot of things die in my life but none as slow, sad and painful as the death of a community. It's like a cancer and it starts when the factories close. Factories that fed the needs of the nation and gave promise and stability to those that worked in them. Soon after the downtown begins to lose businesses to the big box superstores on the outskirts of town and little by little, piece by piece the downtown becomes a bleak facad of broken glass and empty storefronts. But, they don't stay empty forever. Soon enough the seedy bars, porn and pawn stores, bail bonds and tattoo parlor s take their place bringing with them their own special clientele with the problems they cause. Then the meth labs, hookers and massage parlor s move in and the cancer changes the landscape. Well kept houses and manicured lawns give way to broken down tenements and yards littered with garbage both household and human and why? Because a few greedy men wanted more. So tell me again why capitalism is such a great thing?
    sigpic

  • #2
    Re: Capitalism

    Yes, the same thing happened here in the 70s and 80s, when all the jobs left for lowerwages down south. Glass plants were big here, there are still a couple in a nearby city making speciality glass, but here we had over 6000 working roind the clock making bottles. When those jobs left all the supporting businesses soon left too. UE went way up, near 20%. Then all the people that could not find decent jobs starting leaving.

    Agricultural was huge here too. Before FL and CA got big (i'm talking about before the depression), the Garden State pumped out a large percentage of fruits and veggies as produce, and canned and frozen products too. Seabrook Farms started near here and was at one time the biggest frozen food packager in the country. its all gone now, and i doubt it will ever return.

    Though many administrations have tried to bring some sort of manufacturing or production back it has not happened for one reason or another.
    ---------------
    Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
    ---------------
    “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
    ---------
    "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
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    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Capitalism

      "Democracy is the worst form of government.....except for all the others"

      I think that quote could be extrapolated to address capitalism.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Capitalism

        Maybe but history proves as long as there are greedy and corrupt men no form of government can last forever and there will always be greedy and corrupt men.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Capitalism

          Are we back to the "legislating morality" discussion"?
          Last edited by rofl; 04-10-2013, 10:51 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Capitalism

            There is greed at the top of the chain as well as the bottom. Personally, what your describing is human decay, and I really don't think it will ever change. Every great civilization crumbles when its people for some reason unbeknownst to us drives them mad. They're moral compass becomes nonexistent, kindness disappears from their heart and their focus in life narrows in on the unimportant things. Its sad, disgusting and shameful really. They all die from within it seems, its just a matter of time. Capitalism just so happens to have staved off the unavoidable for longer than usual it seems.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Capitalism

              It's the same in Binghamton, NY where I grew up and certainly it was evidenced very quickly here in the Corning, NY area, just in the last 30 years.

              In Binghamton where we've moved back to (for the majority of our time anyway) the 'better off' have moved out of the city and now live in the surrounding suberbs, mostly Vestal. At one time, back at the turn of the 19th Century, Binghamton supposedly had more millionaires living there than any other city on the east coast, including NYC. It was the "Parlor City", and the industries were everything from shoes to cigars to lumber. During the rise of the 20th century we had steel, aviation, robotics, and almost everything imaginable, including IBM, Link Simulation Product, Ansco/GAF, Universal Instruments, and of course Endicott-Johnson of which two of our "triple cities" were named, Endicott and Johnson City. My great, great, grandfather moved here from Virginia, my great grandfather, grandfather, and father all grew up here.

              You walk around the city today, and you look at the old buildings, most now abandoned or only recently revitalized after decades of decay, and you wonder how we had the money to build such beauty. Nothing newly constructed comes close to the beauty, and expense of materials that these older structures have, and one is left wonder about what catastrophies must have taken those generations of wealth away. The old factories of EJ are either gone, or sit in horrible decay with their windows busted out and the rail sidings overgrown.... they were still bustling when I was in my 20's, but some rich *** bought out the business and almost overnight moved everything to Asia. IBM was the place to work right up through the 70's, but they too are gone now, leaving behind decay and chemical contamination. Singer-Link and GAF are also gone from my early working days, and so too all of the machine shops, and sub-contract house, and most of the restaurants and almost the entire downtown ares of all three cities. The banks and the big hotels came in during the 70's, as if there was big money in town, but they too are mostly gone, and their buildings sit mostly empty now.

              In Corning, where I moved in 1973 my employer had the largest compressor plant in the world and we employed over 4,000 people at one time. In 73' we had 3600, five different divisions making everything from portables to huge gas-process equipment. The plant was amazing, and we were expanding, adding new buildings.... but with the greed, we abandoned and even tore down some of those in this past decade. They have less than 600 people there now, many of them relabeling and fixing the problems that result from our Chinese plants.

              I was a bit of the historian for the plant in my last few years. It was amazing what we were at one time. We supplied equipment for the Panama Canal, highway construction through the Alps, for gold-mining in California and the Silver in Wyoming and Colorado. Our equipment, from Painted Post, was on almost every highway construction project, and in WWI we made artillery shells, and in WWII the engines for Liberty Ships, and compressors for the fleet, and for engine starters for the Army Air Force. And we supplied the compressors for Mt. Rushmore as well as the pneumatic drills. We even invented and build the first automotive lightweight compressors and even the compressors for the modern Navy's phalenx missile defence system. It's all gone now!

              Corning Glass, now Corning Inc. is the same way. Once the biggest employer in the area, they are now mostly just management and research. Those are the rich people who command our area now. Corning owns Corning... it's subsidized shops line Market Street, catering only to the tourists with it's unique little shops.... the people who live here though are left only Home Depot and Walmart to do thier shopping, as you can no longer buy much of anything for your household in any other shop. Corning Inc. even owns the "Y" and it's atheletic center is priced well beyond what any of us "working class" folks can afford, as it the major Health Center with it's pool, rehab, and fantastic gym facilities. Corning of course provides those free benefits to it's executives and their families though. The real hurt for our diminishing community here is the new highschool that they just build... a school for science and math, a place for the sons and daughters of the executives and perhaps a few choosen others, just to show that they are not discriminatory against the rest of us. We of course can only be "qualified", and we don't get any tuition breaks.

              In both Binghamton and Corning there is decay, but it is most keenly illustrated here in the Corning area... just in the last 20 years, we've lost our Ford, Chevy and Toyota dealerships. All but five of our gas stations are gone, all the grocery stores are gone except for Wegmans and Walmart. And so too are most of our family restaurants. We lost four department stores just here in Painted Post and here in the village where we used to have three markets, we now have none. Empty buildings are everywhere, and though built in the 70's, they've now torn down the several buildings, including the great "Lodge on the Green" motel, restaurant, and convention center. That used to be the "jewel" of our area, where any major event was held. Now that space is occupied by an TSC supply store, and it doesn't look like it's going to last more than another year or two.

              All of it, all the industry, the offices, the little businesses.... all gone because the executives decided that they can make much more profit by sending the product manufacturing to China. It wasn't that we didn't have the manpower, or the education and skill, or that transporation or resources was the problem. It was plain and simple greed for more profit... and that's capitalism with a capital "C".... for "CASH".

              CWS

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Capitalism

                And every day, the industry paid sycophants, Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity et.al. continually extoll the so called virtues of capitalism and the free market. The problem is that the free market ain't free. Never was and never will be. The sad thing is that most Americans buy into this crap and truly believe that they are free to persue their dreams when nothing could be further from the truth. Big business has systematically destroyed the underlying fabric of our society and neighborhoods. Big business has made achieving the American dream little more than a pie in the sky enterprise. Big business has bought their way into the courts, the legislature and the media to the point where most folks have no clue what is going on behind the scenes and worse yet, most will defend what they are so very ignorant of. This nation is but a shell of what it used to be and while there are many that will staunchly defend the dealing of the past and present they are only doing so because they were taught or told too. I expect that someone here will soon post their "sucess" story. How they started with a couple hundred dollars and are now making a good if not excellent living. Great, good for them but in the scheme of things their sucess is little more than peanuts, the leavings left behind for the peasants to fight over. About 16 people control 99% of the wealth, power and influence in this country and some of them are not even Americans.
                Last edited by NHMaster3015; 04-10-2013, 07:58 AM.
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                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Capitalism

                  I find it sad how many in this country covet their neighbor... I don't give two craps what someone else makes or what they have. As long as it wasnt stolen from someone, why is it my problem? And if Americans really wanted to punish these big companies, QUIT BUYING THEIR PRODUCTS... but, they wont. Not because the big evil company wanted more profit by sending it to be made over seas, but because the consumer is a vicious bastard that will buy the cheapest product that will do what they want and not care about where it came from or its quality, they just want it cheap cheap cheap. So, is that the fault of the big bad company, or the idiot consumer that cares nothing about loyalty and everything about price? Although I agree that the large corps have gutted the small business of this country, I also do see a lot of small businesses still doing ok here. Heck, my town of 62k people has two Ace hardware stores, and one has been around for as long as I have been alive (changed names a few times but still there). Yes ACE is a national chain, but its been here forever it seems. The fact that an Ace still exists with HD/Menards/FleetFarm all with in 10-15 minutes is amazing to me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Capitalism

                    Capitalism is a lot better than communism and yes world wide capitalism has bee screwed by some greedy bastards and governments and our legal systems world wide have not gone after them where if you or I had done they have done we would be in jail its not what know its who you know.
                    It is always great looking but to our youth the so called good olds days we seem to always remember the good and not the bad growing up but really would you like to do it all over again I for one wouldn`t we are all in the same boat times are hard but will get better and better but will future gererations remember no theys won`t as we forgot what our parents and grand parents went through in the 1930`s and the so called great depression we believed that we were better we knew how to handle money we were so smart at borrowing buy now pay later and never thought that it couid all come tumbling down and thought our parents were fools not buying on credit and now we who didn`t listen are eating humble pie.
                    The past is the past and capitalism is what we make of it

                    Tony

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Capitalism

                      Excuse me while I back out of the liberal spamfest.

                      Others are much kinder than I am to address the oversimplification of the problem in our nation and the ignorance to lay that blame solely at one place.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Capitalism

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        I have seen a lot of things die in my life but none as slow, sad and painful as the death of a community. It's like a cancer and it starts when the factories close. Factories that fed the needs of the nation and gave promise and stability to those that worked in them. Soon after the downtown begins to lose businesses to the big box superstores on the outskirts of town and little by little, piece by piece the downtown becomes a bleak facad of broken glass and empty storefronts. But, they don't stay empty forever. Soon enough the seedy bars, porn and pawn stores, bail bonds and tattoo parlor s take their place bringing with them their own special clientele with the problems they cause. Then the meth labs, hookers and massage parlor s move in and the cancer changes the landscape. Well kept houses and manicured lawns give way to broken down tenements and yards littered with garbage both household and human and why? Because a few greedy men wanted more. So tell me again why capitalism is such a great thing?
                        Yes that's why I left the East Coast !
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Capitalism

                          little to do with capitalism, it has to do with change,

                          according to some here the reason the buggy whip maker went out of business, is because of the big box store down the road, and there greed, WRONG, they went out of business, because there product was not profitable to make and the demand for there product became less do to change,

                          how many cassette deck or 8 track manufactures are out there, can on even buy a new VCR player? I suppose that was by greed as well, the CD maker said were so greedy were going to put the 8 track deck player out of existence, and I suppose the on line down load said the same thing for the CD music sales,

                          Notice that there are not Record stores any more? is that do to greed,

                          how many Western small towns have died since the 1940's thousands and thousands, they never had any manufacturing, or big business, they had farmers and ranchers, guess what do to greed (people wanting to make a living), the kids move out of the small community where there may be greater opportunity, and usually to trans fer the land it takes two some times three generations, and the family that expands there ground (means buying out the neighbors) there is less people, in the area, and technology, at one time this farm would employ 10 to 20 people during harvest times, and a few the rest of the year, to deal with horses and to work the land, now I do it all, including harvest, machinery makes the difference
                          my brother farms his FIL place, his place is a number of times bigger land mass than mine, but do to larger machinery over mine, he does most all hims self, and during harvest usually one of his boys come home and helps, and possibly hire a truck driver,

                          MH you talk about the changes in plumbing and how your shop does it the OLD ways, and that your the most expensive, but my guess is some day you may have to give in to the labor saving methods of some of the new materials or loose market share, Those greedy customers may not want to part with that much cash for a job done,

                          I run in to the same thing, say buying tires, a tractor tire for my tractor is in the $600 to $1200 dollar range, the lower are usually imports, and the higher domestic, now I desire to buy American, but I have bought the $1200 tires and warranties are not keep and the tire falls apart at the same rate as the lower priced tire or it "life" is my only be a year or so longer, but it cost is twice as much. I just replaced a Firestone (and as far as I could tell made in Canada), with a BTK (made in India) tire last year, would have like to go Firestone, but the cost of it was double, and rotted out just as fast,

                          I would like to have a town that was busting at the seams like it was back in the late 1940's, to go to, but you know then you took the train to the next town, 30 miles away, you left early in the morning and came home late that night, now you get in a car, and are their in 30 Min's do your stops and are home in less than two hours,
                          there is not even the train depot any more, it is gone and so are the passenger trains, the hardware store move out of town, the grocery store is struggling, one filling station, not much for eating places, the gas stations quick stop, and a ma and pa dinner type place that is open on some days,
                          no motels or hotels, no propane company, furniture store, department store, creamer, flour mill, only one elevator, at one time there there were three or four, even the number of bars and Church's are less than half of there glory days,
                          In our area the CAR, and Larger farm machinery, and economizes government controlled grain prices, have been a lot of the decline of the small town USA,

                          A lot of people think that Greed is the only motivator, but so is survival, look at the car companies, they would be out of business now if there would not have been a bail out for two of them, (would it have been an end to cars NO), but the face of the car world would have changed a lot, I do not know if there greedy or not, there are some salaries that seem out of line with other sectors or jobs, but maybe the job needs that kind of salaries to keep quality people in there, I do not know,

                          but I do know on large companies, just like large farmers, they look like there doing really good, then they can be gone in a flash, where many times the small guy that never looks like he will amount to much out lasts and continues into future generations,

                          people ***** about the box stores, a lot but where do they shop? but how many box stores have come and gone as well.
                          in our area (state.) Hugh m. woods was one of the first, no longer, and there was Eagle hardware, wool worths, Montgomery wards, and there have been Sears, Kmarmat, JC penny, that are just hardly hanging on, there have been many a electronic and appliance box store go under, being big is not nessarly a sign of eternity, or even greed, even wall mart has seen a big down turn here as of late,
                          just because some one is big doees not mean that there profitable,

                          to offer the same product cheaper than the competitor, means some one is having to do some thing different, but it may be the profit per unit), and many times it works if your selling enough, product, but when your not your hurting just like the guy trying to sell three of them,
                          many a small town is hardly more than a ghost town any more,

                          I think a lot of it is is just change and we do not like how change affects us,

                          and when towns build up around one company or business, it is a killer when that business goes out,

                          there is a town near me, Sidney Nebraska, at one time in the 1940's they built a military depot about ten miles north of it, it was the go to town for the base, it was great until the 1960 when the government decided it was no longer needed, the town just about fell in on it self, then the Cabalas sporting goods started to take off, in the 80's and they went public, and expanded, they took over the old box store, and doubled the size of the building for offices, they have built huge office buildings and have there retail store by the interstate, and use some of the old military depot, for wear houses and shipping,
                          now the town is supported by Cabelels sporting goods, (if they would go under the town would be worst than it was before after the military pulled out, as the military provide housing and many of the means for life for the personal,

                          your towns living and dieing is CHANGE, and part of a Cycle of Life, and most all cities large and small are trying to revitalize there down town areas,
                          Last edited by BHD; 04-10-2013, 11:45 AM.
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
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                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Capitalism

                            Originally posted by rofl View Post
                            Excuse me while I back out of the liberal spamfest.

                            Others are much kinder than I am to address the oversimplification of the problem in our nation and the ignorance to lay that blame solely at one place.
                            Has nothing to do with liberal or conservative. Has to do with the corruption of man and society. I can't see where political leanings have anything to do with the decline when both parties have been in power and both parties have had the opportunity to do something about it. Its interesting though that you think that any critisism of the status quo must be liberal in nature. Then again, I find that 90% of those throwing labels out there have no clue what a liberal or a conservative really is or means. It reminds me of the term progressive which has now become conservative speak for liberal when in truth, this nation was founded by the most famous group of progressives in history. Democracy and capitalism are progressive ideas. The opposite would be regressive and though the good old days are often looked at with fondness, history shows that the good old days weren't all that good. The one thing that I do know is that if we continue down the path of greed and corruption, our nation will not be around much longer. At least not in its present incarnation. Thanks to the media, a lot of us seem more interested in placing blame than addressing the issue. Ignorance is indeed bliss I guess.
                            sigpic

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                            • #15
                              Re: Capitalism

                              "Never a doubt though often wrong"

                              I notice you focussed on conservative talk show hosts in your monologue. Don't pretend you were neutral and then imply I'm the one making this political. Personally I'm sick of both parties.

                              Your political ideologies ooze out of every post you make and it certainly doesn't make them more appealing that you look down your nose at anyone with a differing view.

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