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Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

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  • Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

    Detroit! As we go about our lives, I can't help but think how the fall of Detroit may someday effect all of us. I don't see how our economy can survive if we don't make what we consume? We rely on the rest of the world including a brutal communist super power for almost all our consumer goods. I think of our economy as a bucket full of holes, but instead of water it is our wealth that is gushing out never to return.We can sedate ourselves with the endless purchases of flatscreens, cell phones, ipods, ipads, laptops, digital cameras, and the rest of the junk we are convinced we must have, but the economy is Not getting better in my opinion. You can take the greedy Union workers and all their benefits out of the equation and still have an unresolvable problem. Our economy can't rebound based on service alone, we must manufacture!

  • #2
    Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

    Okay Frank, let's say we retool our factories in Detroit. What should we make?...and you better not say an 18v 1/2" impact wrench! That's not going to put us in the black Cleaner fuel burning cars and trucks? Do we even make cars in Detroit anymore? I would LOVE a new pickup to replace the 14 year old one I have now. But guess what? the money isn't there for me right now, especially for what our automakers want for a new truck. I can't think of a city that got hit worse in this recession than Detroit, not surprised the city filed for bankruptcy.
    Who said everything is just fine?

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    • #3
      Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

      I'm just expressing what I believe is the obvious. Smarter minds than myself should be able to come up with a grand plan, something that would put the problems into perspective and offer a step by step solution. The problems are massive and invole everything and everyone from business, labor, government, to we the people. I mention manufacturing as a basic, founational need for a stable economy but the problems go far beyond one thing. We just leased a new car after constantly pouring money into old cars that just were not made to last. We are desperate and have "hopes" that we can pay the monthly charges and just maybe at the end of the lease buy the car outright. I get frustrated watching the news, I think the problems are not getting fixed at all! Imagine if we did by some miracle bring back ALL the manufacturing we lost over the last fifty years? People would be working and making great money. Municipalities would be supported by tax revenues generated from all the big businesses. The trade deficit would turn around because the world would have to buy from us if we stopped supporting them through our purchases. If you tell me we can't go back, then I say we can't go forward either, not like this.
      Can we really afford and do we really need some of the things we have? I don't need a back up camera for my car, and if the cost of getting 30mpg is lost by the cost of repairs, where is the savings? A two barrel carb, six cylinder car that I can easily repair makes a lot more sense, but they are gone! We don't need cleaner burning cars and trucks right now, we need economical transportaion. We need affordable fuel so we can get to work and vacation throughout our country.
      There are plenty of people saying things are just fine and getting better, I'm not one of them for the reasons just mentioned. Start making what we consume, drop the price of gasoline to $1.00 so folks can get to work and still afford to live!

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      • #4
        Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

        Drop the price of gas to $1.00? That's what it cost without profit just to MAKE a gallon of gas. You will no doubt put more people out of work by doing that. What's my incentive to turn crude into gas if there's no money in it for me?

        You're going to love this: my great State of Virgina has decided to DROP the .17c/gallon gas tax breaking the critical bond between transportation costs and funding. This is where it gets good.....to supplement the state budget, they are raising the sales tax on vehicles....alternative fuel vehicles! Someone didn't think that through.

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        • #5
          Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

          Way to go unions!
          Buy cheap, buy twice.

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          • #6
            Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

            PC, here in Minnesota they have the great idea of using the gas tax for pretty much everything but roads, bike trails, light-rail, walking paths, you name it, its paid for with the gas tax. A couple counties are starting to charge wheelage taxes on licence tabs to help re-inflate the funds for road improvements. I wonder how long before that gets raided as well. frustrating as all hell! Our freeway system in MN is rated one of the worst in the nation... but hey, we're the top spot for bikers in the US, yeah, that drives productivity doesnt it? MORONS!

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            • #7
              Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

              Back to blaming the Unions and ignoring big business for moving jobs to make more profit, and avoid OSHA, the EPA and anything else that might get in their way. They don't have Unions in russia, north korea, communist china, and ****, want to move? You seriously think if there were never any Unions we would not be in this mess? Think beyond your hatred!

              I don't know what the profit margine is for big oil but it's certainly putting a damper on the economy. I would rather see the fed subsidize the price of gas than pay healthy folks to collect unemployment and welfare. Something different needs to be done, we are circling the drain.

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              • #8
                Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                Way to go unions!
                What are you saying Ben, that unions have destroyed our economy all on their own?

                Or sarcastically saying its not their fault.
                "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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                • #9
                  Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                  If you want to blame someone for the high price of fuel, blame OPEC. If any of you ever saw that piece that 60 Minutes did a few years ago where they interviewed one of the Saudi oil ministers, and when pressured he admitted that it cost only about one US dollar to bring the oil out of the ground, anf that they decided that $65 was the minimum they would sell a barrel of oil for. So for back then a profit 65 times your production cost, that's not too greedy is it? Just so you can drive a different Rolls every day and build a ski resort in the middle of the desert on the backs of the average joe who's trying to make ends meet scraping up enough to fill the tank and get to work.
                  "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                  John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                    Why the bashing of unions? In Canada, the minimum wage, vacation pay, sick days, and the 8 hour work day were all established by unions (and probably things like maternity leave too). EVERYONE benefited from the unions taking a stand, not just unionized folks.

                    If all countries had unionized labour, we would be a lot better off as a societal whole. Some of the working conditions in other countries are beyond dangerous and in some cases are inhumane. I buy as much as I can from mom and pop shops, and "made in Canada" is very important to me.

                    I agree with the fact that we should really consider the things we "want" as well as the things we "need". How much junk from the dollar store (imported) does one really need? Do we all need to own 6 pairs of shoes? 3 cell phones?

                    I don't pretend to have a solution, but I do my best to support local farmers, butchers, automakers, hardware stores, etc. There is plenty of wealth out there for everyone, the distribution is all messed up. People in Canada are losing their jobs as banks are reporting record profits each quarter. There is something very wrong with that.

                    Fuel tax here in Canada used to be reserved for road, infrastructure, etc. the government quietly changed that law in parliament a few years ago, and that money has been "reallocated" to government slush funds. It's criminal. Our roads, highways, bridges, etc are not receiving the attention they require so some politician can pad his campaign fund.
                    Last edited by franklin pug; 07-19-2013, 10:58 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                      What many don't realize is, Gas (among other things) is expensive because our dollar is weak and getting weaker to the tune of $40 Billion a Month. Quantitative easing by the Fed. is artificially pumping made out of thin air dollars into the economy. Sad what has happened to a once great city. Part of the fall is expected because of the automotive downturn.
                      I believe the major downfall of Detroit and our country is liberalism. You can't have more people collecting gov't benefits than paying into it. People think gov't subsidizing is great but they don't realize is that it is just putting the burden on everyone in the form of taxes. Taxes have their place but should be minimized. Everything the gov't touches they are extremely wasteful and often screw things up completely. Can you (or anyone) name one gov't agency that runs efficiently?
                      I believe in free a market and free enterprise. I believe over regulation and overtaxing is not good for business or the economy. I believe in keeping my own money. I know best how to spend it or save it. Having an overreaching gov't taking your money makes you a slave. The left seem to believe in more taxes, illegals (future votes) and the continuous squandering of money on entitlements. The right says they believe in less taxes but are really neo-conservative spendaholics. Although I believe in spending on defense, I don't like the idea that those in power seem to think we are the police of the world. I don't believe we should subsidize any foreign country. I think the only chance we have for the future of this country is the libertarian party where the spying will be on the government politicians waste, not us.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                        I understand the Union bashing because I listen and learn, and have an open mind. Unions are a target of blame and in some cases they are guilty! I'm not pig headed enough to defend to the end folks who hurt some businesses that can't meet Union demands. I also know the good Unions have done and still do, unfortunately in this economy it doesn't matter. Unions held a lot of power at one time and still do to some extent, businesses and municipalities agreed to demands and now some of those entities can no longer make good. I can admit that in an effort to keep their members up with the cost of living, some Unions did not realize the money was simply no there. My former employer could easily afford whatever they agreed to and more, unlike others. My point of upset is the refusal by folks who are upset with the economy and Unions to see beyond to where things went downhill. When I watch Fox news and they beat up on Unions I wonder why the say nothing about all the very profitable businesses that just up and left? Tens of thousands of established businesses not only left for what I consider slave wages far below the minmum wage but to escape the oversight of the EPA and OSHA. Their profit margins increased, and not only did Union and nonUnion folks lose jobs but towns lost tax revenue and our economy overall declined. If taking Unions out of the equation does not change the results we are seeing then they are not of primary blame in my opinion. You can't make a rational argument for "free" markets when your in competition with a communist super power that crushes human rights, and has no conscience about polluting their environment or ours. Common sense tells me that we should be able to pay our workers enough to manitain a respectable standard of living and at the same time allow small businesses the ability to be profitable. What we see in place of that is a society of abuse, and irresponsibility that is rewarded. The problems are many, and the folks working on solutions are hard to find if they even exist. We have cities going bankrupt, where is the outrage. Trillions of dollars of debt, tens of millions out of work, tens of millions of illegals, massive trade deficit, rampant fraud.Please expand your scope of blame to accomodate all the guilty parties and then look to who is not addressing the solutions.
                        Last edited by Frankiarmz; 07-19-2013, 11:34 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                          Looks like you guys have similar problems to us downunder. We have this thing called Kevin Rudd. Now he just got back into the high chair after deposing the Red-headed KAMAKAZE first female Prime minister who cried misogynist and said we didn't respect her because she was a woman. So instead of admitting she was absolutely useless she deflected with this argument. But getting Kevin back is another s-fight. He is closer to the Chinese than any Australian citizen. He is/has sold our soul for his power hungry ego. But we too have a part to play. We have let him do this. We all want cheap TVs, cars etc. On the issue of fuel we are currently having a battle between the two major shopping centres, Woolworths and Coles. Spend so much and get upto 45cents a litre off. Now you tell me that they aren't manipulating prices here. Oh, by the way, we have a petrol price commissioner. Fat cat public servant who does...................????????????? Nice job, pity I cant get it. Ask Tony, he will probably use harsher words on this subject than I am here.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                            Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                            What many don't realize is, Gas (among other things) is expensive because our dollar is weak and getting weaker to the tune of $40 Billion a Month. Quantitative easing by the Fed. is artificially pumping made out of thin air dollars into the economy. Sad what has happened to a once great city. Part of the fall is expected because of the automotive downturn.
                            I believe the major downfall of Detroit and our country is liberalism. You can't have more people collecting gov't benefits than paying into it. People think gov't subsidizing is great but they don't realize is that it is just putting the burden on everyone in the form of taxes. Taxes have their place but should be minimized. Everything the gov't touches they are extremely wasteful and often screw things up completely. Can you (or anyone) name one gov't agency that runs efficiently?
                            I believe in free a market and free enterprise. I believe over regulation and overtaxing is not good for business or the economy. I believe in keeping my own money. I know best how to spend it or save it. Having an overreaching gov't taking your money makes you a slave. The left seem to believe in more taxes, illegals (future votes) and the continuous squandering of money on entitlements. The right says they believe in less taxes but are really neo-conservative spendaholics. Although I believe in spending on defense, I don't like the idea that those in power seem to think we are the police of the world. I don't believe we should subsidize any foreign country. I think the only chance we have for the future of this country is the libertarian party where the spying will be on the government politicians waste, not us.
                            I believe in Detroit's case you have to put a majority of the blame on the inept and corrupt government that has led the city for the past 30+ years. Since Coleman was mayor it has been going downhill. I lived in Detroit as a kid, my Dad worked for Chrysler. We moved in the early 60s (I was 9) when he took a job in NJ.

                            Camden, NJ is another case of the same "bad luck", but is more about the corrupt politicians that the citizenry vote back in year after year. It's happened in other cities too. I think Detroit between the recession and poor government couldn't hold up under the strain. Detroit in the 50s and 60s was a great place to live. There was much to do there. I remember when the new car models would come out all the big dealerships downtown would rent those old aircraft spotter lights and there would be a big celebration for days. We would drive down there just to see the new cars and what they offered. We used to go to Belle Isle and to some of the many parks around the city on weekends where we could enjoy the outdoors, and being kids we liked to feed the ducks and visit the zoo. Also went to see a number of classic films at the Detroit Institute of the Arts. They had a huge (to me) theater that must have sat a thousand people and screen the size to match. I remember seeing films like Moby Dick starring Gregory Peck and Richard Basehart and Knights of the Round Table there when I was 7.

                            In the mid 60s they had some racial problems as did many other cities across the country. I was back there in the early 70s for a short time, and I remember thinking that it was dead then (compared to what I remembered). I went by our old house which was nothing special, just your average size city lot with a small brick 1-1/2 story 3 BR home. It was ready for the wrecking ball. Hurt to see that as I had so many fond memories of that block and all the kids I played with, BBQs in the back yard with my parents friends and their kids. Toasting marshmallows on the grill in the evening with our Dad. Making snowmen in the winter. One time we rolled a huge snowball all the way home from school (5 blocks). It was about 4 feet in diameter and took 5 or 6 of use to move it. It became the base of a giant snowman in our yard.

                            We used to walk to the 5 blocks to school by ourselves (my sister and I) from 1st grade up until we moved without fear. We didn't need buses, no one got to school by bus. There was a Mom & Pop grocery store every other block since back then there were no 7-11s or Wawas. We would travel throughout the neighborhood, some times 8 or 10 blocks from home on our bikes without fear, the city was virtually crime free and drugs or drug-related crime was no where to be seen on the streets.
                            "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                            John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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                            • #15
                              Re: Everything Is Just Fine. Really?

                              Just how does a State go bankrupt it lives beyond its means and that is what the whole of the US is doing living beyond its means and there will come a day it will all come tumbling down you can see day by day your share market going up and down and when your fed talks about easing back on printing money money you don`t have and when you are beholden to China a communist country you despise for your daily bread Detroit is a warning of terrible things to come and it will effect the whole world in the years to come as China is an economic bubble waiting to explode just look at the empty cities it is building that nobody in China can afford to live in

                              Tony

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