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  • #46
    Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Debt per capita

    US $52,170

    Australia $52, 596

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt

    I think we all are in a bunch of trouble.

    Mark
    Yes Mark Australia owes billions not trillions and yes we have a population of 23 million not three hundred millions and works out that every Australian owes around $52,000.00 but it not around 80% of our GDP as yours is and my government spends the majority of their taxes on its own citizens and not on every other country as you you do your government seems to care more about everyone but your own and from reading this forum I get the impression that its everyone for themselves and if you fall on hard times or fall by the wayside then pity help you as you don`t
    We have had medicare since the 1970`s and the rich pay their share and we don`t have to go to another country as Americans have to go to Canada to get lower medical prescriptions as our government subsidises them so that there affordable for the average person I think you said you have relatives living in Australia Mark why don`t you ask them about how medicare works and is payed for in Australia and how the average person pays for it as on reading this forum the majority of you hate having to contribute to your medicare
    Governments are here to provide through taxes the means for average people to have a good life to share a countries wealth for everyone living in their country if not then the jungle rules

    Tony

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

      Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
      Frankie, lets for grins say that we decide to really get to work and tackle the healthcare crisis. Lets say we open the discussion up to anyone that wants to contribute. How long do you suppose we could go before someone begins placing blame on whatever or whoever was involved in the past? I'm guessing about four posts. Nobody really wants to solve problems, they want to blame and name call and puff their chests out and say I'm better than you. I hear all the time how the liberals want to tear the country apart. How Obama wants to re- make the nation but nobody can coherently answer for what possible reason? I mean what possible good can come from ripping our society and economy to spreads. Who's going to benefit in the long run from that? Think awhile on that because it won't be the liberals or the illegals or the minorities. The only beneficiaries are the usual suspects.

      NH do you think you guys are Robinson Crusoe for God's sake. I reckon it happens everywhere. So how do we fix it. I DONT KNOW.

      What I do know is that unless you stand up and be counted then you do not have the right to criticize. Next we need to look at the caliber of the people we put in power to govern and rule the day.(there is a catch and I will get to this later). We need to assess their skills of running a business as, simply speaking, isn't it similar. They need to look to advisors who are good at what they do. These advisors need to be on a performance based contract and held responsible for their mistakes, just like every Professional Plumber Gasfitter here on this forum is. There is no doubledipping. If they cock it up, send them down to break rocks. This will undoubtably ensure good quality advisors in most instances. Then make sure the ministers(or what ever you guys call them) are also responsible. If they sign off they too are part of the success or failure and the outcomes accordingly.

      Now we come to the hook - I wake up hahahahahahaahaa...............!!!!! Now seriously as a cynic that I sometimes am I would suggest that your economy is not about fairness but rather looking after certain people. Be it missile and armament builders or drug companies, developers or dare I say the real filth in this world, THE LEGAL FRATERNITY. Do you think for one minute we could ever get rid of this filth and go back to basics, not a chance. Yes I have no respect for the LEGAL FRATERNITY as a whole because they promote angst and fighting with a guaranteed result. Sorry it is only a win-win for them. You win they ream you, you lose they still ream you just the same. Do you resolve the issue, not a hope. Now there is always two sides to a coin and there is also in many cases a middle ground which just slows down results a little. There is also their closest companions the INSURANCE COMPANIES who are just as low as this filth.

      There is also a movie you guys made over there some time ago. It is I think called BILL, about a body double for the President played by Kevin cant think of his surname. There is a part where a small town accountant looks at the books of the treasury and basically says something like "if they were in business they would be locked up. They don't have any idea of how to manage money". This is an extremely funny and somewhat cynical movie but really, I would love to try this as an exercise. I wonder what the result would be.

      What WE ALL NEED TO DO IS STOP BLAMING and start endorsing capable people. Like employees, if they cock it up then sack them, immediately without the trailing benefits. Stop the gravy train and restore the faith. Spend the money wisely and we will all benefit. BTW this too will never happen because of the casino syndrome. We need losers so that we can have some small portion of winners.

      This is just My Humble Opinion and I apologise for offending anyone here other than Legal and Insurance

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        Debt per capita

        US $52,170

        Australia $52, 596

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._external_debt

        I think we all are in a bunch of trouble.

        Mark
        MArk you are lucky, you have OBAMA. I will swap him for Kevin DUDD and pay the airfare if you are interested. Oh you have to take the sooky red-headed ***** as part of the package as she too was a contributor to our current position.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

          Originally posted by AFM View Post
          Yes Mark Australia owes billions not trillions and yes we have a population of 23 million not three hundred millions and works out that every Australian owes around $52,000.00 but it not around 80% of our GDP as yours is and my government spends the majority of their taxes on its own citizens and not on every other country as you you do your government seems to care more about everyone but your own and from reading this forum I get the impression that its everyone for themselves and if you fall on hard times or fall by the wayside then pity help you as you don`t
          We have had medicare since the 1970`s and the rich pay their share and we don`t have to go to another country as Americans have to go to Canada to get lower medical prescriptions as our government subsidises them so that there affordable for the average person I think you said you have relatives living in Australia Mark why don`t you ask them about how medicare works and is payed for in Australia and how the average person pays for it as on reading this forum the majority of you hate having to contribute to your medicare
          Governments are here to provide through taxes the means for average people to have a good life to share a countries wealth for everyone living in their country if not then the jungle rules

          Tony
          Tony I know you wont like this but look at the morons we have running the show now. An egotist and a corrupt bunch of useless public servants who have never worked a real day in their lives. look at the lovey dovey lets give the dole bludgers more money, lets legalise drugs, lets get more 457 workers etc etc etc. Look at the insulation debacle where four innocent workers lost their lives because of Government incompetence. What about the boats and how much money it has cost us so far. Kevin and Co. made contracts with that pommey mob who have made sqillions. We are in dire straits but all that matters is blue ties and mysoginists. Please Tony, we may be on opposite sides of the fence but you cant deny that these morons should be held accountable for their incompetence. Whay do we have to pay for our mistakes and they don't. The scary part is you and me are not going to be around to pay off these debts, our great great grandchildren will. We need to get this world in shape for the future generations. Only my humble opinion

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

            People in power have a human tendency to be corrupted, or at least steer things to their own self interest. That is why lobbyists swarm like flies in politics.
            The problem is big government and no accountability for their actions. People have the mentality; Why should we care..... The governments will pay for it. ....OR, Don't worry how much it actually costs, insurance will pay for it. People are much more careful when their spending their own money.

            There is waste and corruption in every aspect of government. The solution is to minimize the size of a bloated government.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

              Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
              NH do you think you guys are Robinson Crusoe for God's sake. I reckon it happens everywhere. So how do we fix it. I DONT KNOW.

              What I do know is that unless you stand up and be counted then you do not have the right to criticize. Next we need to look at the caliber of the people we put in power to govern and rule the day.(there is a catch and I will get to this later). We need to assess their skills of running a business as, simply speaking, isn't it similar. They need to look to advisors who are good at what they do. These advisors need to be on a performance based contract and held responsible for their mistakes, just like every Professional Plumber Gasfitter here on this forum is. There is no doubledipping. If they cock it up, send them down to break rocks. This will undoubtably ensure good qualityy advisors in most instances. Then make sure the ministers(or what ever you guys call them) are also responsible. If they sign off they too are part of the success or failure and the outcomes accordingly.



              Now we come to the hook - I wake up hahahahahahaahaa...............!!!!! Now seriously as a cynic that I sometimes am I would suggest that your economy is not about fairness but rather looking after certain people. Be it missile and armament builders or drug companies, developers or dare I say the real filth in this world, THE LEGAL FRATERNITY. Do you think for one minute we could ever get rid of this filth and go back to basics, not a chance. Yes I have no respect for the LEGAL FRATERNITY as a whole because they promote angst and fighting with a guaranteed result. Sorry it is only a win-win for them. You win they ream you, you lose they still ream you just the same. Do you resolve the issue, not a hope. Now there is always two sides to a coin and there is also in many cases a middle ground which just slows down results a little. There is also their closest companions the INSURANCE COMPANIES who are just as low as this filth.

              There is also a movie you guys made over there some time ago. It is I think called BILL, about a body double for the President played by Kevin cant think of his surname. There is a part where a small town accountant looks at the books of the treasury and basically says something like "if they were in business they would be locked up. They don't have any idea of how to manage money". This is an extremely funny and somewhat cynical movie but really, I would love to try this as an exercise. I wonder what the result would be.

              What WE ALL NEED TO DO IS STOP BLAMING and start endorsing capable people. Like employees, if they cock it up then sack them, immediately without the trailing benefits. Stop the gravy train and restore the faith. Spend the money wisely and we will all benefit. BTW this too will never happen because of the casino syndrome. We need losers so that we can have some small portion of winners.

              This is just My Humble Opinion and I apologise for offending anyone here other than Legal and Insurance
              Don't get me started on those blood sucking, corrupt boils on the face of society, I'm running low on blood pressure mess. when your government is mostly comprised of lawyers you can expect what you get.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
                Tony I know you wont like this but look at the morons we have running the show now. An egotist and a corrupt bunch of useless public servants who have never worked a real day in their lives. look at the lovey dovey lets give the dole bludgers more money, lets legalise drugs, lets get more 457 workers etc etc etc. Look at the insulation debacle where four innocent workers lost their lives because of Government incompetence. What about the boats and how much money it has cost us so far. Kevin and Co. made contracts with that pommey mob who have made sqillions. We are in dire straits but all that matters is blue ties and mysoginists. Please Tony, we may be on opposite sides of the fence but you cant deny that these morons should be held accountable for their incompetence. Whay do we have to pay for our mistakes and they don't. The scary part is you and me are not going to be around to pay off these debts, our great great grandchildren will. We need to get this world in shape for the future generations. Only my humble opinion

                Ahhh, it's refreshing to know that corruption knows no boarders.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                  I don't know about OBAMA but our moron Kevin the DUDD is running around the Country and part of the world energized by his EGO. Him band of merry men are treating the population with absolute contempt. They are worse than NERO, fiddling whilst Rome burnt. What none of us in this industrialised world are prepared to do is overthrow the useless leaders when their EGOs get away from them and they start to ruin the nation that they are supposed to be protecting. We believe that this only happens in uncivilized society and the politicians love the protection afforded them from such thoughts. I once heard someone ring in to the radio station, a fairly young person who was frustrated to the point whereby he called the polly a "MAGGOT". what frustration forces us to this point. If I was in this Government I would resign in disgrace but then that is me and this is my humble opinion only

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                    I was in the neighborhood, saw the topic and thought I'd present the facts on tax burden with links to the source.

                    According to the St Louis Fed (FRED) -

                    Corporate profits, peak to peak since the height of the economic bubble in 2007 to now are up 5%. DESPITE higher unemployment, lower wages and a stagnant economy for the rest of us.

                    Corporate tax receipts on those higher profits are down in the same time by 14%.

                    This tax imbalance is caused by multinational corporations via lobbyists in D.C. that literally write tax code and use their money to campaign against anyone who doesn't vote their way out of office,

                    This problem was enhanced exponentially with the Supreme Court's recent "Citizens United" decision, making unlimited anonymous bribery legal via SuperpPAC's....and there's no real way to know who's filtering money into our system because of this anonymity.

                    (Al Qaeda could be pumping money into elections and we'd be none the wiser.)

                    Also, the top 0..1% who hold the majority of U.S. wealth and pay lower rates on the increased portion of their income through cap gains rates, the wealthy derive a much greater percent of their income from investment than we do.

                    This is why Reagan opposed a reduced cap gains rate, income is income, regardless what you label it.

                    Multinationals are also the major contributor to our higher unemployment vs 2007, due to a combination of technology/automation and outsourcing.

                    On one side -
                    We have fewer jobs & lower wages, the need for government/entitlement aid increases per capita for those with decreased income.

                    One the other end -
                    Those who account for the greatest portion of income & earnings are paying lower rates than ever.

                    That leaves us, the middle class to foot the bill caused by higher unemployment, lower wages and lower taxes for corporations and the top 0.1%.

                    The hardest hit income group of all are those of us who make between $100K and $250K, the people who actually work for a living and don't make enough to buy Congress.

                    We foot the bill for the consequences of multinationals and wealthy campaign donors, who now make more, while at the same time now pay less.
                    Last edited by DuckButter; 07-27-2013, 09:01 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                      Profits are a good thing not a bad thing. It's not the tax rate that matters, but the revenue generated. Cutting taxes increases revenue.. In every case over the last 60 years, major tax cuts have more than paid for themselves. In fact, every major tax cut since JFK has been followed by substantial increases in revenue, not to mention solid economic growth. Moreover, total federal revenue rose at a faster rate after each of those tax cuts than it did before them. Anyone can confirm these basic facts for themselves by checking federal budget data and economic indicators before and after major tax cuts (see, for example, Federal Budget Data, Data 360 Unemployment U.S., and Total Economy Database).

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                        Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                        Profits are a good thing not a bad thing. It's not the tax rate that matters, but the revenue generated. Cutting taxes increases revenue...
                        All true, if you cut taxes it boosts earnings for the taxed entity - the assumption is that benefit then reciprocates to the rest of us.

                        The purpose of cutting corporate taxes is to promote job creation, as termed in "trickle-down", and to promote lower consumer costs, as termed by "supply-side".

                        The problem illustrated in the FRED data I provided above, neither is happening, corporate profits are higher than they were in 2007, they have fewer employee's, they cannot reduce end costs any more, or they simply take those margins in the form of executive wages (up 40% since 2007) and they're paying less taxes on higher profits, which is then funneled into offshore tax shelters or expansion into foreign markets.

                        We're incentivizing them for no reason, no jobs, no reflection on end prices, no benefit in exchange for lower per capita tax rates, aside increasing our deficit and increasing the need for entitlement spending to offset lower labor demand- CPI also proves that "supply-side" can only go so far, then it comes down to input costs.

                        Apple alone has $150 Billion sitting offshore in tax havens, while most of their employment is outside the U.S., most of that $150 billion is from the U.S.

                        Where we lose both tax revenues, and jobs, with a net loss of benefit, we might as well be writing treasury checks to foreign corporations who don't function within the U.S. - We'd achieve the same effect on our deficit, consumer prices and job creation.

                        Meanwhile, you and I are left paying the bill for less jobs, instead of those who made money while eliminating those jobs.
                        Last edited by DuckButter; 07-27-2013, 09:46 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                          Yes, I see you point. But, the other side is if businesses are not competitive, they go belly up or move overseas. The incentive needs to go to the ones that do business here and are expanding (Hiring local workers) I would like to see taxes for everyone go down, not just corporations. Another thing we need to do is crack down on the employers who are hiring illegal workers.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                            Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                            Yes, I see you point. But, the other side is if businesses are not competitive, they go belly up or move overseas. The incentive needs to go to the ones that do business here and are expanding (Hiring local workers) I would like to see taxes for everyone go down, not just corporations. Another thing we need to do is crack down on the employers who are hiring illegal workers.
                            The 40 largest multinationals paid no (or close to no) taxes last year, I don't see how much lower we can go there, some even get tax credits despite being profitable, as with GE in 2010 & 2011.

                            They also have little competition as is, the large banks use their massive size to manipulate commodity prices as Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley did with oil prices in 2008, or the more recent discovery that Goldman's manipulates aluminum prices, as with the Libor scandal, the FX scandal, the CDO/sub-prime scam, fraudulent foreclosures, JPMorgan's charges of silver manipulation two years ago....this is just the start of along list of occurrences of this nature.

                            Turns out, though a larger corporation is "supposed" to be more efficient and produce cheaper goods, all too often it's larger size only enables it to bully, and monopolize at the expense of legitimate competition, smaller businesses (us) and the consumer.

                            On the notion that they'll leave, that's a logical falsehood, if Delta faucet leaves, Moen, Kohler & American Standard will be happy to take that business, if Goldman Sachs leaves, JP Morgan or Morgan stanley will rise in it's place...etc...etc.

                            If taxes go up across the board, they all have an even slate in competitive terms, no corporation would have an edge over an other, if they leave, fine, we finally start charging the same tariff on Imports that are charged for our exports - currently, we charge a 2.5% tariff on Chinese imports while China charges us 25% for our exports.

                            Why? - because the corporate lobby writes our tax code so they can hire cheap labor in China and still get cheap taxes selling back to us here, then spoon feeds us the idea that it's "good for the economy", and blame our deficit on entitlements as a smokescreen.

                            As for giving incentives to companies for "doing business here" - what good is their business if we're creating a deficit in their paying little or no taxes yet creating relatively few jobs relative to those tax losses?

                            Ireland is a phenomenal example of this, they have the lowest corporate tax rates in the world with one of the highest unemployment rates of developed nations - Dublin is full of corporate store fronts with few employee's only there to enjoy dirt cheap taxes.

                            The incentives need to go to the businesses that actually create jobs with good wages.

                            Guess who does that? - We do.

                            Not Apple, Not Goldman Sachs, not Romney's Bain Capital or Goldman Sachs prop desks that scalp pension funds via market manipulation.

                            Then there's Walmart, McDonald's and Yum brands (KFC), who pay employee's so little that more than 60% or them qualify for food stamps and medicaid, our tax dollars are subsidizing their lack of wages.

                            Who's pays the taxes for that? - We do.

                            I'd rather Walmart pay it's employee's more than $8 an hour, than have to pay them out of my taxes so they can eat and get healthcare....a job is supposed to pay enough to live, not at tax payers expense....ESPECIALLY not when that corporation is already enjoying "job creating" low taxes

                            - We foot the bill on both ends.



                            .
                            Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 02:41 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                              Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                              Yes, I see you point. But, the other side is if businesses are not competitive, they go belly up or move overseas. The incentive needs to go to the ones that do business here and are expanding (Hiring local workers) I would like to see taxes for everyone go down, not just corporations. Another thing we need to do is crack down on the employers who are hiring illegal workers.
                              Amazing how this one point has come to light. We too have issues with Illegals although if you ask our current morons they will deny(not rocket science ). It is also amazing how Government projects turn blind eyes to illegals working on their projects.
                              Tax incentives should be given to those who create employment locally(within country unless there is absolutely no other alternative) and those that promote the future through apprentices and other.

                              Just MHO...............!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                                Originally posted by Cleanmen2 View Post
                                Amazing how this one point has come to light. We too have issues with Illegals although if you ask our current morons they will deny(not rocket science ). It is also amazing how Government projects turn blind eyes to illegals working on their projects.
                                !

                                In his 2008 campaign, John McCain changed my thinking on this.

                                While it's easier to hate and blame them, we have 11 million of them here.

                                It would be a fiscal impossibility to round them up and ship them out, it would cost a massive amount of money to attempt this.

                                Instead, McCain presented the idea that if we made citizenship available to those willing to work for it, we turn them into legitimate tax payers who no longer have to take jobs for pennies and drive wages down for the rest of us.
                                Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 02:55 AM.

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