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Taxes. When is enough enough?

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  • #61
    Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

    What amazes me is that "we the people" are, I guess more or less stupid and spineless.

    Seriously, IRS? The current tax system is the stupidest thing in existense. It is so complicated you can't even begin to keep up. And as soon as you start to, they change crap again.
    I wouldn't mind paying taxes if my government was competent. But instead you have these clueless retards sitting up there passing laws like it's a sport. Most of everything done affects people that aren't rich. Because let's face it, if you don't have money problems in this country, you don't have problems. If I was filthy rich I would not care about taxes which are the NUMBER ONE problem with this country, in my opinion. But the taxes aren't even going to things they should go to. I mean sure some taxes go to appropriate places. But how many presidents are still on the payroll?

    EVERY ONE THAT IS STILL ALIVE.

    You want to have a good life in america? Either A. get rich or B. don't work.
    It's simple as that. I know people that don't have jobs, work the system and the fact they can recreate, and they have it easier than me.

    But what really just doesn't make sense to me is NO ONE has the balls to stand up to our government.
    You abolish the IRS and institute, just for the sake of argument, institute the Fair Tax. ***not saying this is the best route but just humor me***

    Now if I remember right, FT is a 27% tax on money you SPEND, not make or save. When you spend it, you are taxed 27%, so the 100 dollar item becomes 127.
    AND, under that system the government will give you a living allowance at the beginning of the year, meaning if it costs 6000 to basically live, they give you 6 grand at the beginning of the year, but who cares about that.

    How much simplier would things be under this system. Here would be the new tax code.
    When you spend money you pay 27% to the governemnt,
    THE END.
    GOOD BYE IRS.

    No loopholes, no stupid tax breaks. It's as fair as it gets.
    Not only that but the people pushing fair tax claim that in TEN YEARS, 3650 days, our national debt? reduced to the almight ZERO, and then it would start stockpiling.
    Now I am sure there is problems with this, like the super rich. Or what the F ever. 27%. You pay what I pay. But only if we pay, if not we keep the money.

    Now I am not saying it's the magical rainbow shitting unicorn that we need to miracle this country back onto track. BUT, it's a damn good start.

    But let's get back to why this isn't our current tax system.
    Some people would rather rule in HELL, than serve in heaven. Our country is so messed up it's not even funny. And we get forced by a small % of the population to do things a certain way, even if they are blatantly unfair. Or they will lock us up until we bend over and conform. You aren't free. You will do what you're told, when you're told and how you're told. Or you go to jail.
    If we areicans were just to stand up and drop the fear our nation has instilled in us, there isn't enough government that could stop us. My town I live in right now has like 20000 citizens, and 6 cops. (roughly)

    How about we take by force what is rightfully ours? Our freedom? Why are we letting things like immigration laws get abolished? Why are they just going to make them all citizens? Why do they get to choose what laws to make, and enforce but we must OBEY without question or get punished?

    Oh cops? You think they are here for safety? Stop being so naive. You really think they give a **** about safety? It's JUST ANOTHER TAX, call it the strongarm tax. This one they point a gun directly at you to get you to pay.

    I bet the government could start concentration camps and start burning children with flame throwers and 99% of the population would crap their pants and let it happen. We aren't "we the people" anymore, we are just slaves.
    Last edited by stolen; 07-28-2013, 11:01 AM. Reason: spelling

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    • #62
      Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

      Hey stolen, if you keep up that kind of outspoken and truthful criticism of the gov't they might make you mysteriously disappear! The gov't holds the power over us even if we were to band together and try to reform through revolution. We are faced with frustration and dysfunction in many areas of life, and unfortunately while we can express our upset by free speech that's about as far as it goes. I avoid watching the news for a few days but I see things that bother me in real life everyday.
      What's that saying, "God grant me the strength to change the things I can, accept the things I can't and wisdom to know the difference"?

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      • #63
        Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

        Stolen,

        Flat taxes on income don't work without compensating for low income groups, Milton Friedman proposed a negative tax for the lowest wage groups...(The earned income tax was founded on the idea)

        Flat taxes on consumption or a flat sales tax are even more counterproductive.

        While median income is $26K per individual, a person who makes $1 million and pays $10K per year for clothes with a 5% sales tax only pays 0.05% of his income on those taxes.

        A person making median wage, at $26K, who only spends $5K on clothes will pay almost 1% of their total income on those taxes. - That would directly slow down consumption (spending), which then directly hurts us.

        The problem there is that most of the population makes closer to the $26K, than the upper income levels, the lower wage groups account for a much larger percent of all consumption, sales.

        As a self employed plumber, that means the bulk of my customers would have less money to spend on my services.

        While both high and low income groups use my services just as often, I have a lot more customers in the lower wage groups than I have millionaires.

        That means less discretionary work for me, like additions or cosmetic upgrades, less income for us because those wage groups would be taxed at a higher percent of their incomes, leaving them with less spare cash.
        Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 08:49 PM.

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        • #64
          Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

          I believe Milton Friedman was spot on on economics. I wish his views were more widely known.

          Although many would like the government to back certain industries, I believe they need to stay out of picking winners and losers (Like Solindra et al)

          About the illegal problem, Why can't we just mandate every employee's citizenship is verified? If illegals can't land a job here, there would be no incentive to come (illegally)

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          • #65
            Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

            Originally posted by johncameron View Post
            I believe Milton Friedman was spot on on economics. I wish his views were more widely known.

            Although many would like the government to back certain industries, I believe they need to stay out of picking winners and losers (Like Solindra et al)

            About the illegal problem, Why can't we just mandate every employee's citizenship is verified? If illegals can't land a job here, there would be no incentive to come (illegally)
            I have listened to Mr. Friedman on YouTube and I think he is way off on some things. When he talks about free markets I have to ask how or where that exists? Our markets are free and open to imports but try and sell our goods in communist china or many other places around the world. Friedman thinks it's to our benefit to have our goods manufactured in other countries, but how do we make up for the consumer dollars that never come back here? His arguments are based on half truths in my opinion. Just look at where we are and make up your own mind if outsourcing, and free markets have worked to our benefit!

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            • #66
              Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_exports

              We sell quite a lot to the world including china.

              http://youtu.be/GjVko-DMeF4

              More reasons to be very suspicious of republicans, conservatives, tea party members and big business although to be fair, the democrats, liberals and progressives have a hand in this travesty as well. Remember that those very few at the top pay nothing in taxes and while they do own companies that employ people, the wage disparity is astounding. In short, capitalism only works for as long corruption can be held off which in practical terms is maybe four minutes.
              sigpic

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              • #67
                Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_exports

                We sell quite a lot to the world including china.

                http://youtu.be/GjVko-DMeF4

                More reasons to be very suspicious of republicans, conservatives, tea party members and big business although to be fair, the democrats, liberals and progressives have a hand in this travesty as well. Remember that those very few at the top pay nothing in taxes and while they do own companies that employ people, the wage disparity is astounding. In short, capitalism only works for as long corruption can be held off which in practical terms is maybe four minutes.
                sigpic

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                • #68
                  Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                  NHM, what would that list of exporting countries have looked like 20, 30, or 40 years ago? I can only imagine America dominating the world and that had to be key to our strong economy. In my opinion there is nothing to replace that dominance and turn our economy around. We cannot possibly continue to depend on communist china and the rest of the world and assume that by some miracle the math will change in our favor. The disparity between the rich and poor must continue to grow as more Americans see their personal finances collapse.

                  I get it, the rich are getting richer, but according to many sources I've heard even if we took all the wealth of the rich we would not fix the economy or debt. We must bring back the wealth of the world that was slowly bled from our country. Sorry just talking out loud. I'm gonna take a break while you guys decide who is to blame for this mess, the capitalists and conservatives, who shipped out the businesses and jobs, or the liberals who wanted to provide unrealistic or under funded gov't assistance. Can anyone guess what the next big distraction will be?

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                  • #69
                    Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                    Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                    I believe Milton Friedman was spot on on economics. I wish his views were more widely known.
                    The problem there, most people who cite Friedman don't know Friedman.

                    Friedman was considered both fiscally conservative and socially liberal, half and half, not what's being pawned onto the public by Fox, CNBC and other outlets, the same way they rewrite who Reagan was..

                    Friedman's teachings have been perverted into what's called "Austrian" economics (founded by friedrich Hayek, who was from Austria) - the belief that government should NEVER get involved in regulation or moderation.

                    That's untrue, Friedman believed in efficient and minimal government, he believed in the Constitution's definition of government, including the commerce clause to ensure against monopoly.

                    Friedman also opposed the gold standard, and yet, his name is so frequently tossed into the mix when discussion of fiat currency devaluation comes up.

                    The funniest misconception of Friedman to date, as so many ***** and moan about Bernanke's "printing" via monetary policy & QE - Bernanke is of the Friedman school, everything he's done is right our of the friedman playbook - even the name "helicopter" comes from a riedman statement to go as far as throw money from a helicopter if that's what it takes to fight deflation.

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                    • #70
                      Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      I have listened to Mr. Friedman on YouTube and I think he is way off on some things. When he talks about free markets I have to ask how or where that exists? Our markets are free and open to imports but try and sell our goods in communist china or many other places around the world. Friedman thinks it's to our benefit to have our goods manufactured in other countries, but how do we make up for the consumer dollars that never come back here? His arguments are based on half truths in my opinion. Just look at where we are and make up your own mind if outsourcing, and free markets have worked to our benefit!
                      Youtube won't do him justice because each video is hand selected...though I have found a youtube of him discussing the need for a social safety net and his negative income tax as well.

                      Though there are more than a few things I don't agree with his stance on, to the opposite end, read chapter 2 of "Capitalism and freedom", where he discusses the danger of monopoly and concentrated power/wealth.

                      If He were alive today, he'd be having an aneurysm over "Citizens united" and the bribed effects Superpacs have on what was once a "free market" Democracy.

                      Friedman strongly opposed public unions, but encouraged private unions - I find myself wondering, where unions as a whole are now 1/4 the size when he wrote his theories, would he still be so compelled over public unions?... Or would he be concerned with the collapse in labor's say in wage negotiation as it pertains to deflation?

                      Lower wages lead to deflation, Friedman was a fanatic about fighting deflation - it would be very interesting if he were around now.
                      Last edited by DuckButter; 07-29-2013, 12:48 PM.

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                      • #71
                        Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                        I don't trust Democrats (socialists) and most Republicans because they are not really serious about cutting Government waste. Yes,the Tea-party has strayed form their original ideals. I don't have a problem with conservatism. What is wrong with having a balanced budget and not spending future generations money? That video is disparaging about the distribution of wealth but it's their money, Not yours. Those people worked for it, had the brains to do so, took the risks, and made very good investments. There are many that have lost everything they had several times in order to get where they are today. I say good for them. That's the American dream. They should pay their fair share of taxes like anyone else (and if their are tax loopholes they found, the tax code is the problem, not them).

                        A Democrat would just love to steal their money and redistribute it. I don't thing stealing is wright.
                        I think the Libertarian Republicans are the way to economic prosperity.
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhmFX...jc8AD46Zvo_zYA
                        Last edited by johncameron; 07-28-2013, 09:37 PM.

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                        • #72
                          Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

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                          Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 10:33 PM. Reason: dupe-deleted

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                          • #73
                            Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ies_by_exports
                            More reasons to be very suspicious of republicans, conservatives, tea party members and big business although to be fair, the democrats, liberals and progressives have a hand in this travesty as well. ...
                            Let this bake your noodle for a bit.

                            Reaganomics founder, Republican Paul Craig Roberts, on the topic -

                            "Americans have no greater enemies than Wall Street and the corporations and their prostitutes in Congress and the White House.{...}The United States and the welfare of its 300 million people cannot be restored unless the neocons, Wall Street, the corporations, and their servile slaves in Congress and the White House can be defeated."

                            This isn't Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders speaking, it's the Republican founder of Reaganomics..

                            I also agree Dems have done more than their share, I didn't see any filibusters on Bush's Medicare D, that writes a blank check to pharmaceuticals with absolutely no price negotiation....oit was Clinton who signed the removal of Glass-Steagall and the creation of the CFMA that led to the '08 crisis.

                            .
                            Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 10:32 PM.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

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                              Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 10:33 PM. Reason: dupe-deleted

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                              • #75
                                Re: Taxes. When is enough enough?

                                Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                                I
                                A Democrat would just love to steal their money and redistribute it. I don't thing stealing is wright. ...
                                When the founding fathers decided the majority of the populace had a right to share in King George's wealth and stole a country from him,...was that Socialism?

                                By contemporary neo-con definition, Democracy is Socialism.

                                By historic standard, Socialism was another word for Communism, if you think we're anything like Communist, try reading Republican Icon Teddy Roosevelt's "New Nationalism" - He was a stark raving Communist.


                                I get that paying down the national debt is important, but if my customers are too broke to pay me to install a 6 yr water heater, I place that second on the list of priorities, if the Koch brothers are THAT worried about it, maybe they can chip in s'more taxes to help out.
                                Last edited by DuckButter; 07-28-2013, 10:35 PM.

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