Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
No Longer Made in the USA Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Re: No Longer Made in the USA

    "Let's talk about what we can do, instead of that irrelevant banking thingy."
    I hope you are joking because I never said the "banking thingy" was irrelavant. There is nothing to my knowledge that will be done about the banking thingy, massive gov't & consumer debt or anything else. Remember The Great Depression had a way out, currently I am not aware of any way out, that's why I ask and that's why you and everyone else chooses to answer with what needs to be done and not what realistically will be done. In my opinion absolutely nothing will be done to change the behavior of banks or any of those other things, so you can repeat you mantra of the corrupt, manipulating banks, and I will repeat my as of yet unanswered question. Can we agree that in order to prevent abortions people need to be proactive with birth control, men must not rape, people engaging in sex must act responsibly? Did that solve the issue of abortion? No! I ask what will be done to turn the economy around, because I feel it is as futile and unresolvable issue as abortion.

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: No Longer Made in the USA

      I was wondering what local loan sharks are charging for interest on loans?
      Credit cards are 12%-30%
      auto loans are pretend 0% to 5%
      home loans average 4-5% after the dust clears.
      I recall one home loan I had in the 1980's was around 18%

      Ah, my savings account is earning 0.01%
      and my CD is earning 0.89%

      So from where I sit I need to invest in debt to make money?

      Cactus Man

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: No Longer Made in the USA

        Originally posted by cactusman View Post
        I was wondering what local loan sharks are charging for interest on loans?
        Credit cards are 12%-30%
        auto loans are pretend 0% to 5%
        home loans average 4-5% after the dust clears.
        I recall one home loan I had in the 1980's was around 18%

        Ah, my savings account is earning 0.01%
        and my CD is earning 0.89%

        So from where I sit I need to invest in debt to make money?

        Cactus Man
        Actually, sell debt. (short)

        Treasuries, which loan rates are based on, have just come off a century low in yields - if you have any fixed income or T's in your 401-K, get it out, if you have a brokerage, there are ETF's that short treasuries.

        If you've already refi'd, and you have no more debt to refi, that's another way to capitalize on low rates.

        The caveat, if the Fed is again cornered into making debt cheaper, it's possible, but I can't imagine mortgages getting much lower than 3%.
        Last edited by DuckButter; 08-01-2013, 09:28 PM.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: No Longer Made in the USA

          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
          .... There is nothing to my knowledge that will be done about the banking thingy, massive gov't & consumer debt or anything else. Remember The Great Depression had a way out, currently I am not aware of any way out, .....
          On robots, technology and globalization, maybe, but on banks fraud/manipulative practices, you're wrong.

          There's a midterm coming in 2014.

          The more people openly talk about it, the more likely politicians are to include it in campaign platforms, or negative campaign ads, it becomes normalized to openly talk about it, rather than politicians shy away in fear of losing campaign money.

          Chris Christie has caught on, so has McCain (Whom I frantically tried to convince people to vote for in 2008, here in this forum)

          The 2010 mantra of blindly flailing at extremist catch phrases about "free markets", "Liberty" and "big government" while catering to special interest monopolies that benefit from less government isn't being missed by the average voter anymore..

          Right now, it happens that Dems are the "good guys" in this fight (just for now) - voters are aware of what's really happening, the party that represents this is likely to pay a price, in turn the bellwether becomes a focus on the middle class, instead of corporate/.banking profits while spoonfeeding the public convoluted theories like "trickle down".

          Elizabeth Warren, defeated Scott Brown solely on a campaign against big banks, she was the underdog at the start.

          Like Lincoln said it, You can't fool all the people all the time - I think he was right.


          .
          Last edited by DuckButter; 08-01-2013, 09:33 PM. Reason: Proving to the world that I was NOT an english professor in a former life.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: No Longer Made in the USA

            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
            On robots, technology and globalization, maybe, but on banks fraud/manipulative practices, you're wrong.

            There's a midterm coming in 2014.

            The more people openly talk about it, the more likely politicians are to include it in campaign platforms, or negative campaign ads, it becomes normalized to openly talk about it, rather than politicians shy away in fear of losing campaign money.

            Chris Christie has caught on, so has McCain (Whom I frantically tried to convince people to vote for in 2008, here in this forum)

            The 2010 mantra of blindly flailing at extremist catch phrases about "free markets", "Liberty" and "big government" while catering to special interest monopolies that benefit from less government isn't being missed by the average voter anymore..

            Right now, it happens that Dems are the "good guys" in this fight (just for now) - voters are aware of what's really happening, the party that represents this is likely to pay a price, in turn the bellwether becomes a focus on the middle class, instead of corporate/.banking profits while spoonfeeding the public convoluted theories like "trickle down".

            Elizabeth Warren, defeated Scott Brown solely on a campaign against big banks, she was the underdog at the start.

            Like Lincoln said it, You can't fool all the people all the time - I think he was right.


            .
            DB, "They" don't have to fool anyone anymore, they can blatantly do whatever the heck they want. I hope I'm wrong about reforming the banking industry and about America coming back. We here exchanging opinions are in my opinion in the minority when it comes to folks delving into the root causes of our economic situation. I think most Americans are distracted with everyday life, making ends meet, personal problems and so forth. Political ads are forced upon them during commercial breaks from their favorite mindless tv distractions. Few people even know who their elected officials are, much less what they represent. Even politcially active individuals get caught up in the hoopla and drink the koolaid of choice without truly thinking for themselves. I believe this happens with folks who pledge strict party allegiance, similar to religious fanatics who have no wiggle room and must follow blindly. I have seen too many similarities between the democrats and repulbicans when it comes to behavior and results to have faith that either party will produce meaningful results. They run on grand speeches promising change then once in office it's the same old thing. I voted the first time around for President Obama, and I regret doing that. Five years and into a second term my once free healthcare cost has skyrocketed, inflation has driven the cost of everything I buy higher, and I'm aware of many folks having much more serious difficulties.
            Hope is a good thing, perhaps the best of things according to actor morgan freeman, so by all means be hopeful and get excited with the coming elections. I myself am still waiting for a change, for justice, fairness, results that will force the government to spend within it's means, and not wage wars it cannot fund without more debt. I am still waiting for the grand plan that will revive our economy, employ the able bodied and provide for those who truly need assistance without digging us deeper into debt.
            DB, you compared my concerns to rearraging the deck chairs on the titanic, I feel your hopes of banking reform as a solution to our economic
            problems are like fixing a broken finger on a man who is dying of cancer, heart, kidney, and liver failure. I can see Lincoln assessing our current situation and shaking his head in disbelief, "How did you Americans allow so much to get so far as to jeopardize our great country?".

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: No Longer Made in the USA

              The answer is simple. Greed and lawyers.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                Regarding banks and banking...

                While can't speak with the great knowledge of Duckbutter and I don't have either the time or the ambition to look up all the data that may exist on the subject, I do know this from experience:

                When I was a young man in my late teens and early 20's (mid-60's) my meager savings account was earning 4-1/4 % and was computed on a quarterly basis with the local 'Savings Bank'. The regular banks provided a slightly less percentage rate, but computed it on a daily basis. The 'Savings Bank' had a policy that money "invested by the 10th, earned interest from the first". SO, it was big practice by many to withdraw most of your 'savings', walk across the street and open an account at the 'First National'; then on the 10th, withdraw that account and it's 10-days of earnings and go back to the Savings Bank and deposit it there. The results were that you actually made an extra forty days of interest per year. For my very meager savings account, it wasn't worth the time, but others who had much more money did it regularly!

                More important to the conversation perhaps is the simply cost of money, and it's value at that time. Like I said, in the early 60's the savings was about 4-1/4 percent, compounded quarterly and by the late 60's that had risen to about 4-1/2 percent. Now, I bought my first brand new car in 1965 and for that I needed to take a loan. 'Savings Banks' did not make car loans at that time and that left me to go to the local "Marine Midland" bank where my father had good credit and because of my age and no credit history, it was required that he 'co-sign' for me. That 36-month car loan for $1,600 was charged at 7% interest! My term for the difference between 'loaning' and 'borrowing' rates is "the Spread"... and at that time, "the spread" was 2-1/2 %.

                In 1970, my wife and I bought our first home. The beginnings of inflation were upon us and that mortgage was accessed at 7-3/4%. Our 68' new car had a very short term (2-years) loan at about 8% or so. Savings was at about 5-1/2% though, so that 2-1/2% spread still existed. But, by the late-70's, interest rates were absolutely crazy. I had no loans by then, but we were making as high as 14% on our credit union certificates at one time.

                Now, inflation is inflation and while the price of almost everything goes up, a percentage should not change... afterall, 2-1/2% on $100 or $1,000 dollars is still the same 'margin'. But today, what is that "spead" or "marging".... I don't really know specifically, because I don't have any loans and I haven't had to borrow anything in quite a few years now. But I look at the rates of interest on my savings and it is almost nothing. Yet I hear of people having to borrow or pay interests on their credit cards at rates well up into the teens! Which of course makes me wonder whay 'the banks' are allowed to rip people off to such great extents. After all, why should thier cost of business be so very much out of control... when at one time they made a very good profit with a 2-1/2% "spread"?!

                Back in the 50's and 60's, my wife's uncle was a VP at the local savings bank and he told me (in the late 60's) that the regulations were very stringent on his bank. There were things that they simply could not invest in, spend money for, etc. Salaries were among these 'controlled expenditures'. The "banks money is he people's money" he used to say, and it is up to the bank to make investments pay off for those who had savings with that bank.

                That doesn't appear to be the case anymore,

                CWS

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                  CWS, in the 50's, 60's business people had credit cards and probably made good on their debts. Today, the default on nonsecured debt(credit cards) is massive and the banks are not going to take the hit. You and I take the hit for the folks who don't pay, the small businessman takes the hit. CWS, unlike yourself I have always had some kind of loan or debt outstanding since I got married. Currently I still have a good sized mortgage, college loans for my daughter and a leased car. I am living like most Americans, on borrowed money and borrowed time. Take away all the debt, all the credit and you would have nothing, America functions much differently than it did years ago.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                    Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                    Regarding banks and banking... ....

                    At a glance, it appears you went into a comparison of savings rates over the last 50 years, noting savers are no longer rewarded, which is true.

                    However, it's not the intent of the Fed to hurt savers - it's a result of the fact that the majority of Americans are debtors, fewer are able to save.

                    To put that in perspective, there are three things you need to know -

                    1 - Household debt as a percent of income was 70% in 1980, mortgage rates were 16%.

                    2 - Household debt is now 140% of income, while middle class income, dollar adjusted, is stagnant since 1980.

                    3 - The cost to service household debt now is exactly the same percent of income it was in 1980, mortgage rates are 4% vs 16% in 1980.


                    The Fed has gradually pushed rates lower over the last 3 decades to offset the cost to service household debt because stagnant wages cannot accommodate economic growth.

                    The problem has to do with several factors, including unions having shrunk by 75% since 1970, excessive focus on "Trickle down" and "supply side" with no focus on demand (except for the Fed) has failed to grow wages fast enough, or to lower end retail costs to consumers enough.

                    Add to that, the rapid increase in technology & globalization that naturally diminishes the labor participation rate, as well as unemployment rate (We're at 7.5% vs 4% in 2006 and the stock market is at record levels).

                    We also have a slower birth rate, as the massive percent of baby-boomers retire, we barely have the same birth rate....and we climaxed the % of dual working households this decade, which contributed the the massive growth over the last 3 decades.

                    My take, unless we stop hearing the uuber wealthy speak through political puppets in D.C. to cry fowl over "socialism" when something needs to be done about wage growth and tax reform (as with Romney), the next recession could be worse than '08.

                    I don't dislike wealth or the wealthy, I don't oppose rewarding success, but when that reward comes at the expense of life, health, safety or security of the majority, something has to be done.

                    If you really think about it, the founding fathers acting to deny a monarch what was rightfully his was an act of socialism in that context.

                    On top of ALL the above, we have too big to fail banks, in the aftermath of removing Glass-Steagall and creation of the CFMA, that are constantly extracting from the middle with no net economic return and paying reduced cap gains rates on those extracted gains.

                    In their respect, money is like a black hole, the greater the concentration - the more it continues to concentrate, extracting from those around it.


                    .
                    Last edited by DuckButter; 08-02-2013, 05:21 PM.

                    Comment


                    • Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                      Just a friendly reminder:
                      No matter how bad things are today, all I ask is for you all to remember,
                      YOU, (Not me, YOU) all voted for these people, and thus millions like myself have to pay the price:


                      You are all welcome. Thank you all for screwing, millions like myself, the free time to have things like dating and families that are borne from such a practice. I suggest you all save that image to your desktops as a daily reminder as why we are in such a mess to begin with, and why your children have to carry the burden.

                      Comment


                      • Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                        Which of course makes me wonder whay 'the banks' are allowed to rip people
                        off to such great extents.
                        Because banks moved to states with more lenient usury laws which allow them to do just that.
                        In 68 the US Supreme Court said that nationally chartered banls could charge the rate of their home state
                        to everyone who borrowed from them, regardless of where they lived, which in effect bypassed some
                        state regulations and made CC borrowing more profitable for the banks.

                        South Dakota in 1978, followed by Delaware (the home of free shopping) Wyoming, and a few others
                        states attracted these corporations with favorable laws which benefited the company and also the state.

                        Here's a nice time line which lays it all out:

                        http://americansforfairnessinlending...tory-of-usury/
                        ---------------
                        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                        ---------------
                        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                        ---------
                        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                        ---------
                        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                        Comment


                        • Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                          Which of course makes me wonder whay 'the banks' are allowed to rip people
                          off to such great extents.
                          Because banks moved to states with more lenient usury laws which allow them to do just that.
                          In 68 the US Supreme Court said that nationally chartered banls could charge the rate of their home state
                          to everyone who borrowed from them, regardless of where they lived, which in effect bypassed some
                          state regulations and made CC borrowing more profitable for the banks.

                          South Dakota in 1978, along with Delaware (the home of free shopping), Wyoming, and a few others
                          states attracted these corporations with favorable laws which benefited the company and also the state.

                          http://legis.state.sd.us/statutes/Di...atute=54-3-1.1

                          Here's a nice time line which lays it all out:

                          http://americansforfairnessinlending...tory-of-usury/


                          http://www.usurylaw.com/
                          Last edited by Bob D.; 08-03-2013, 06:53 AM.
                          ---------------
                          Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                          ---------------
                          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                          ---------
                          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                          ---------
                          sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                          Comment


                          • Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                            Originally posted by tailgunner View Post
                            Just a friendly reminder:
                            No matter how bad things are today, all I ask is for you all to remember,
                            YOU, (Not me, YOU) all voted for these people, and thus millions like myself have to pay the price:


                            You are all welcome. Thank you all for screwing, millions like myself, the free time to have things like dating and families that are borne from such a practice. I suggest you all save that image to your desktops as a daily reminder as why we are in such a mess to begin with, and why your children have to carry the burden.
                            TG, I started voting when I was 18 with pride and I voted for the people who supported labor and the environment, or so I thought. Wars were waged, illegals flooded our country, businesses and jobs left, greed and fraud flourished. In my opinion it did not matter who was in office because they were influenced and paid for by big business and other power brokers. We the people and the good of the country was never of utmost importance. Lastly, who the heck were we supposed to vote for, who would have made a difference? Have the democrats and President Obama proven better or different than the republicans?

                            Comment


                            • Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                              Have the democrats and President Obama proven better or different than the republicans?
                              Should I take a wild-a$$ guess that you don't read the paper, listen to the News, or look at the economics?

                              That's not saying that the current administration is flawless by any means or that past Democrat dominated governments have been superior. But compared to the Republican administrations of the last couple of decades, and their he!!-bent, give-them-anything-they-want support of America's big business corporations, banks, investment, and petro-chem industries I don't see how anyone could ask that question with a straight face.

                              Regarding your earlier statements about debt and having to borrow: We each have our own sense of priorities and needs. I grew up in a relatively low income middle-class family in which my father struggled to make a living. My Mom and Dad both came from struggling families with severe losses and little or no support from anyone except what they could do for themselves. As such both my parents lacked 'education', with my father having to find work when he was only 12 and my mother even younger. I myself, got my first job when I was just 12, and I worked at two or three jobs all through high-school. College was not an option for me.

                              I look back at the number of times I've had to borrow money, 'take a loan' so to speak. I can count them on one hand... my first 3-year car loan for $1600. A $1800 2-year car loan in 1968 right after we were married and in 1970 a $9,000 20-year mortgage which we paid off in two years. Then in 1979 we took a $28,000 20-year mortgage which we paid off in 15-years. Finally, I took a small loan to buy my 2006 van, because my money was tied up at the time... I paid it off in a year.

                              That's it! When you borrow, you don't get your full dollar value out of your earnings; instead having to pay someone else for the priviledge of getting something you can't afford to wait for. To ME, buying something is the reward I get for savings for it! That way, buying a $1,000 item, doesn't have to cost me $1200 or more! And usually, when buying a 'big-ticket' item, you can get it less with a 'cash' purchase!

                              So here I am retired (because of a layoff at age 58) now for 10 years. My van is rather old (a 2006) and my Miata even older (95'), but both are more than worthy and reliable vehicles... and the Miata is fun! I completely own two homes! And while I do have a couple of credit cards, they are there because 'plastic' is the most efficient way to buy anything these days, including even a $2 item. But those cards are paid off, each and every month and I don't use any card that has a fee attached to it. Bottom line, I don't believe having to pay anybody for the priviledge of my purchases.

                              College for my son? Hey, it was always the plan for the kid to go to college; and by that I mean it was "the plan" before I carried the infant home from the hospital. To that end, the priority was to save for that and I might add, that he graduated from Cornell, which is by no means cheap! We not only paid for that horrific tuitiion, but also forked over $500 a month for rent in "college town", in addition to living expenses, as well as his car and driving expenses. When he graduated, he didn't owe anyone a dime, and neither did we.

                              Oh, I should point out that my wife stopped working when she was five-months pregnant... at that point 'her job' was to be a Mom! So, how is it that one 'high-school' graduate, with no college and no union and not a very high pay check (the best year I ever had was just before retirement when I made $45K) get all this done? Because I found there is a certain value in NOT borrowing money for things we don't need. And yet, we were the first to buy a computer (1979), the lad had his own TV and stereo and traveled everywhere and was able to take advantage of every opportunity.... no matter the cost! We lived comfortably, entertained often, and more or less lived rather well, thought not at all high with only my income.

                              Look, I realize that not everyone can do that or even know how to do that. But it can be done. It's a matter of self-reliance and being aware of what 'costs' and what doesn't.

                              CWS

                              Comment


                              • Re: No Longer Made in the USA

                                CWS, my head is not buried in the sand. If you think the current administration is doing a good job I'm happy for you. I am convinced that many years of campaign contributions, charitable donations to the charity of choice for our elected officials, and all the damage done by lobbyists has perpetuated a America for sale atmosphere in washington. I think past behavior matters and history proves everything I said in the previous post which you chose to ignore. I ask with a straight face how we can pay for obamacare, or other entitlements with the debt over 17trillion and growing? I trust what I see for myself regarding unemployment and jobs, not gov't figures which both side manipulate. Unemployment is very hign, among those who are not losing their jobs, many are having their hours cut, inflation is raising the cost of everything we buy. I guess solyndra should just be forgotten because at the President said "Those things happen"? The dems are corrupt and have an agenda just like the republicans, they both stink! All the folks who must commute needs petro fuel at lower costs because they have no affordable alternative ,and what is worse is that there is no plan to change that. How much time and moeny did President Bush waste on the hydrogen cell scam? Where is the infrastructure for plugin cars, natural gas vehicles? Where is the incentive to convert to natural gas?
                                I see absolutely zero positive action and no plan for anything to change where we are or where we are headed, not from the current administration and not from the republicans.
                                Regarding personal debt, your history is unique among Americans. I could not have purchased all the cars I needed to commute with over the years without racking up debt. I could not have purchased a home without a mortgage as prices spiked over the years unlike low costs prior to the market explosion. I did not want my daughters to carry student loans so I carried the debt. The cost of cell phones to stay in touch and function in this society, the cost of laptops, and other necessities to enable my daughters to have a chance at an education is very costly.
                                The electronics are costly and require costly protection plans and repeated repurchase. I gave a lot of thought to every purchase and found no alternative. Thousands of dollars at a time to redo our roof, our boiler, hot water heater. Thousands to repair used cars that were not made to last very long and that's with me doing oil changes, brake jobs and other repairs. If I was single or had no children I could easily have avoided the debt situation. Property tax, personal property tax(cars) water and sewer tax, heating oil and gasoline that more than quadrupled in the last 20years takes a toll as well. Now on a fixed income my health care costs have skyrocked as less service is provided.
                                I also lost over 50k in the stock market as that bubble burst. CWS, a lot of people lost a lot of money they invested in good faith because of crooks. I was not expecting to become rich but I also was not expecting to get cleaned out as ceo's ran these businesses into the ground.
                                Last edited by Frankiarmz; 08-03-2013, 12:21 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X