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  • Re: Ah another shooting

    The table presented doesn't particularly indicate that it was a lack of guns that allowed their governments to dominate them. It also doesn't tell the whole story.

    Only if one can prove that the people that were dominated, enslaved, sent to concentration camps, or slaughterd had had all of thier guns removed, and that such guns would have or could have been in such numbers that it might have been possible for them to mount a reasonable defense, can one then say that this was a perfect example of what can happen.

    Are there such facts to be had? Do we really know, in fact, that the slaughtered people of Rwanda had been "disarmed" and that the results of their government coming to their door, taking their guns, and then signaling the machete-wielding opposition to slaughter them was actually the steps taken? I think not. Closer to the facts were that the people of Rwanda had very few if any arms... including the aggressors who perpetrated the slaughter. Those slaughtered were more often hacked to death in thier homes by a machete wielding tribal/religious opposition. Not by guns.

    In the case of the Nazi's, there was no doubt of some disarmament of certain parts of the population through laws inacted. But again, it was no more so than the laws which took away property rights or voting rights or the right to practice thier religion. One mustn't forget that here in the U.S. we also took away many rights of citizens of Japanese heritage too, and I believe one of those was their ownership of guns and property, as well as their very businesses.

    It might be noticed too, that off the particular cases cited,in which guns were alledgedly removed.... all but two of these governments were "right-wing", with the majority being dictatorships.

    It must be understood that the laws and policies stated were put into place as part to the act... and not as a result of the act. That's a very big difference! These people were not dominated, enslaved, sent to concentration camps, or slaughterd because they had been disarmed or prevented from having weapons at some earlier time, the attempt to disarm was most often only a follow up step after their classification and separation from rights within thier own society, by thier own people, and the chosen (often elected) government answered the calls of majority people in power.

    At what point do you think our own political parties will do that... and who do you see already trying to topple the government, speak against the common people, speak against a duely elected executive branch, obstruct the common good, inflame conservatives to fear government dominance, and demonize those who are on the lower end of the economic scale.

    The bottom line is that this chart attempts to place a "reason" for us to fear government and thus stockpile weapons. It's a really good plan to sell guns and bullets and it seems to be working quite well. I still can't buy any cartridges low caliber ammunition locally, as it's constantly sold out. Hmmmm, I wonder how many government soldiers, tanks, and heliptors I can stop with my 22? It's all so ridiculous... but it sure is keeping those ammo shelves bare.

    I wonder, would Germany have been any different in the late 20's and through the 1930's if the Jewish populations even had a good stock of high-caliber, semi-automatic weapons? I think not, and history does not indicate that anything would have been different. The Nazi's had no fear whatsoever of the grand armies of Europe, much less the occasional maverick Jewish family who may have attempted to stop them from being evicted from thier property.

    It seems that FDR was right... "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself" (Only difference is that we perhaps underestimate the abilities of the profiteers to make up some good stories.)

    (One must take into account that it isn't just a matter of having a gun and a stock of ammunition. It's also a matter of planning, logistics, strategy, and skill.... and above all, it's a matter of organization with like-minded people who also have all of these factors in position. The best defense against governmetn is not the weapon in your closet, it's the education of your vote or your involvement to good of your communities, however small or large they are.)

    CWS
    Last edited by CWSmith; 08-27-2013, 08:42 PM.

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    • Re: Ah another shooting

      Half this country isn't smart enough to pour piss from a boot with the instructions on the heel.

      And they vote. My vote gets cancelled by a mouth breather. Educating the masses sounds more fantastic than me holding off the army with my 12 guage.
      Last edited by rofl; 08-27-2013, 09:28 PM.

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      • Re: Ah another shooting

        Originally posted by rofl View Post
        Half this country isn't smart enough to pour piss from a boot with the instructions on the heel.

        And they vote. My vote gets cancelled by a mouth breather. Educating the masses sounds more fatastic than me holding off the army with my 12 guage.
        Sadly, I'd give you the better chance for a positive outcome! We have a nation of morons texting while driving, spending endless hours watching mindless reality show, etc. The result of the last fifty years of our votes has been millions of illegals, the loss of jobs and, any chance of a recovery, and wars

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        • Re: Ah another shooting

          I propose mandatory IQ testing as a requirement for voting.

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          • Re: Ah another shooting

            Originally posted by johncameron View Post
            I propose mandatory IQ testing as a requirement for voting.
            And I suggest mandatory IQ testing as a requirement for running... and a competancy test in history for voting.

            CWS

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            • Re: Ah another shooting

              I suggest if any of that took place the voting booths would be near empty! Those running for office would most likely score high in IQ but not so much so for good decision making, and common sense. I'm thinking Edwards, Spitzer, Weiner...
              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 08-28-2013, 08:49 PM.

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              • Re: Ah another shooting

                Or, embarrass them to get an education. Imagine the prestige of being a registered voter. ...Impress all your friends!

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                • Re: Ah another shooting

                  Originally posted by johncameron View Post
                  Or, embarrass them to get an education. Imagine the prestige of being a registered voter. ...Impress all your friends!
                  In order to be embarassed you must posess certain character traits such as humility, self respect, a code of conduct. Try to embarass a young person who has grown up listening to rap lyrics, emulating drug dealers, with no positive adult role model!

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                  • Re: Ah another shooting

                    I don't think that I am the only one to suggest this but the basic thing that is missing from our younger generation is one word - RESPECT. They are bombarded with a differing version of rights.
                    Back in school I would no sooner tell my teacher let alone any adult to get on their bike and pedal. We respected our seniors until such time they showed that they were not worthy. Respect was earned, not a given as some promote. There were instances where we bit our tongue, like some Head Masters, Politicians and others where it was the position we showed respect for and not necessarily the person. Yes it is a hard call but so too is life. I acknowledge that there are many here with whom I will not agree with but I will show them a level of respect that I think they deserve through watching their online behavior. I detest reckless bullying and unwarranted barrages of vicious language. I know it is not common and my general observation is that most of us here are quite civilized and intelligent people. Unfortunately there is a great part of all society who are not strong enough in themselves to face the outcomes that life deals up everyday. Some hide behind mental illness, some are genuine. Who am I to decide, I am not. I do however hold strong views that there are a lot of medical people who are happy to diagnose readily instead of fully analyzing. There are many do-gooders, like our parole board here who hold belief that all wrong can be righted. Pedos, murderers and the like are infected with disease that will never be cured. We don't have the death penalty here. Sometimes I think that we should but again, I am not GOD so I wouldn't want to make the ultimate decision. However, we have no deterrents here as the scum of society know what to say to the do-gooder Parole Board and they just do it again. How many chances can one get???????
                    There are many other things that I can go on with but in an ideal world the simple solution to the problem is education. Agree to disagree, respect the other person's right to an opinion, turn around and walk the other way. Common sense over ego.
                    My Humble opinion only................!!!!!!!!!!

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                    • Re: Ah another shooting


                      (One must take into account that it isn't just a matter of having a gun and a
                      stock of ammunition. It's also a matter of planning, logistics, strategy, and
                      skill.... and above all, it's a matter of organization with like-minded people
                      who also have all of these factors in position. The best defense against
                      governmetn is not the weapon in your closet, it's the education of your vote or
                      your involvement to good of your communities, however small or large they
                      are.)
                      Not singling CWS out by quoting him here, but his comment made me remember another group who there has been little discussion of, and that's the Doomsday Preppers/SHTF crowd. They have been grabbing up guns and ammo but for a totally different purpose. They're not so worried about defending themselves against a corrupt government, they're worried about when the government collapses and there is no one to defend them and the few crumbs of food they have from the bad guys or their neighbors. And for them, small caliber weapons make more sense economically and for some ergonomically. They cost less to operate per round and the guns are less expensive, and for those who are not capable or proficient (women and children) with a larger caliber weapon easier to handle. If you're on the outside trying to get in do you care if someone is using a 10-22 or a M-16A2 ? If you get hit by either one it won't be fun, and in a broken down society with no electricity, little organized health care a gunshot wound from a 22 with the bullets painted with some fast-acting poison may be just as deadly as a .308 slug. And there's another weapon that is high on their list, shotguns and with good reason. When the zombies are coming after you that wide pattern fired from your 12 Ga tactical shotgun while on the run may offer more than a single round from a pistol or rifle. At least those are the comments I have overheard the few times my path has crossed with them when they gather and start talking about the end of the world at gun shows or your local gun shop. Have you not heard the same thing? To me the whole zombie craze is another ploy to sell guns and all the other paraphernalia one would need to stay alive when society breaks down. Probably started by the same group that blew the Y2K scare out of proportion. They have all those items that didn't get bought for Y2K that they need to sell off. The same type of people who fell for the Y2K scare can be maneuvered into believing in the end of the world/SHTF scenario without much trouble. Underwrite movies and TV shows with the right plot, get the buzz going in social media, and pretty soon you have a demand for your products that puts your factories into double shifts to keep up and you can name your price.
                      ---------------
                      Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                      ---------------
                      “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                      ---------
                      "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                      ---------
                      sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

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                      • Re: Ah another shooting

                        Good post Bob D.

                        When I was a teen and through my early 20's I spent a lot of time with military-minded people. Much of it in the outdoors, where I first learned "survival" practices, camping, orienteering, search and rescue operations, etc. In that environment, I found it often a 'magnet' for those who fantasized and/or simply outright lied about thier experience and background. It was always a bit of a joke to filter out those adults who wanted to join the squadron and said they were members of some popularized WWII military unit. Amazing to think that we had a half dozen members of Merrill's Maurauders and the like living like bums in our county.

                        What was equally amusing though were the true "survivalists" that I met over those years. Guys with the fears of doomsday on the horizon that they and thier few friends seemed to be living for. Back in the woods, off on a hill somewhere, hunkered down with their rations and weapons. Some weren't connected to the grid in anyway and came to the populated areas only to hold jobs for the monies that they needed to invest in that terrible future calamity preparation.

                        I sometimes wonder if they are still out there waiting! Even when I was a kid I didn't think much of the prospects of spending my life in such negative anticipation. While being prepared has always been one of my mantras, the question is "for what".... and the answer I think is that it is better to really live and live as well as possible and to enjoy that living rather than out there somewhere waiting for society to fail.

                        (Reminds me of an old cartoon in Playboy [can't remember that guys name, but he was really popular with his off-beat illustrations), in which this crudgy looking guy and his wife were standing on a street corner with a dead elephant laying there... he says to his wife, something like, "I guess you won't nag me anymore for carrying that elephant gun with me everywhere!"

                        Yep, it could happen... be prepared!

                        CWS

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                        • Re: Ah another shooting

                          The cartoonist's name is Gahan Wilson, real twisted mind and visuals. I'm well prepared for storms, power outages and such. In the event of serious survival scenario, most of my neighbors are unarmed and I've got a list of who will be eaten first Remember, you don't have to be faster than the dog chasing you, you just have to be faster than the person running along side of you!

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                          • Re: Ah another shooting

                            Thanks Franki,

                            That the guy! I used to really like his "twisted" humour. Perhaps you might even remember that particular illustration. Years ago, IIRC, I think there was a book of his cartoons, but it was more $ than I cared to spend at the time.

                            "You don't have to be faster than the dog chasing you, you just have to be faster than the person running along side of your!"..... Very good! I hadn't heard that before, so I'll have to remember that line.

                            (I just remembered something similar: "During a lightning storm, be a gentleman and hand the umbrella to the other fella.")

                            Thanks,

                            CWS
                            Last edited by CWSmith; 08-30-2013, 02:05 PM.

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