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  • #31
    Re: Syria

    Originally posted by rofl View Post
    How progressive of you.

    I'm not sure why people think it's impossible to have a conservative set of values and still be aggressive in tackling issues.

    Maybe because every freaking politician, regardless of flavor, is disingenuous in every possible sense of the word.

    And as long as the counter argument for conservative is blathering idiot this country is at a stalemate.
    What exactly are conservative values? I hear a lot of folks talking about conservative values but nobody seems able to define those parameters other than smaller government and less spending which sound like good ideas but even the conservatives have never been able to do anything more than give it lip service. Mostly because the reality of smaller government and less spending is damn near impossible to achieve considering the number of people demanding something from the governments, federal, state and local. Then again I ask what conservative values have ever done, in the history of this nation to move society or the economy forward. I think we would all be better served if folks would stop pinning labels on things in hopes of disseminating propaganda. Calling someone a progressive reminds me of how we called the enemy krouts or gooks in an attempt to discredit and dehumanize them.
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    • #32
      Re: Syria

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      To be fair, Obama had the foresight to use a dry-erase marker while drawing his Red-Line.

      Mark
      Obama has followed the play book. The first step is always saber rattling followed by coalition building. Those faulting mr. Obama are ignorant of past proceedings. Not that past proceedings have necessarily been effective.
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      • #33
        Re: Syria

        Progressive isn't a dirty word to me. Clearly conservative is to you though.

        Being conservative is a whole lot more than a political stance.

        I don't mind when you share your thoughts, but when you couch all of them in blanket statement insults I don't really feel compelled to have a serious discussion. It seems like you bat about .500.

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        • #34
          Re: Syria

          Conservatism as the term has been shanghaied by the current spate is tea party conservatives is IMO an excuse for inaction and stagnation.
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          • #35
            Re: Syria

            I must admit I often wonder myself when people throw the term "liberal" and 'conservative" around. So what do they mean exactly?

            This is the definition I got off the web -

            *******************

            lib·er·al
            ˈlib(ə)rəl/Submit
            adjective
            1.
            open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
            "they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
            antonyms: narrow-minded, bigoted
            (in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform.
            "a liberal democratic state"
            synonyms: progressive, advanced, modern, forward-looking, forward-thinking, progressivist, enlightened, reformist, radical

            con·serv·a·tive
            kənˈsərvətiv/Submit
            adjective
            1.
            holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
            synonyms: traditionalist, traditional, conventional, orthodox, old-fashioned, dyed-in-the-wool, hidebound, unadventurous, set in one's ways;

            **************

            I cut out a lot of the extra wording but this is how I understood what they meant.

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            • #36
              Re: Syria

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              Conservatism as the term has been shanghaied by the current spate is tea party conservatives is IMO an excuse for inaction and stagnation.
              You might keep in mind that not everyone who sees themselves as conservative fits your definition. I have to remind myself that not all liberals are idiots.

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              • #37
                Re: Syria

                Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                I must admit I often wonder myself when people throw the term "liberal" and 'conservative" around. So what do they mean exactly?

                This is the definition I got off the web -

                *******************

                lib·er·al
                ˈlib(ə)rəl/Submit
                adjective
                1.
                open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
                "they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
                antonyms: narrow-minded, bigoted
                (in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform.
                "a liberal democratic state"
                synonyms: progressive, advanced, modern, forward-looking, forward-thinking, progressivist, enlightened, reformist, radical

                con·serv·a·tive
                kənˈsərvətiv/Submit
                adjective
                1.
                holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion.
                synonyms: traditionalist, traditional, conventional, orthodox, old-fashioned, dyed-in-the-wool, hidebound, unadventurous, set in one's ways;

                **************

                I cut out a lot of the extra wording but this is how I understood what they meant.
                This is my definition, two opposing political groups whose actions, or inactions when in office has resulted in the loss of millions of American jobs/businesses, the influx of millions of illegals, multiple wars, and a failed economy. You don't need the Internet to see the reality. In my opinion neither liberals nor conservatives have much to be proud of considering our current situations and bleek outlook.
                Last edited by Frankiarmz; 09-01-2013, 05:53 PM.

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                • #38
                  Re: Syria

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  Calling someone a progressive reminds me of how we called the enemy krouts or gooks in an attempt to discredit and dehumanize them.
                  Maybe, for some of us it was easier to kill a "krout or gook" than some guy named Karl or Quan.
                  For the record, I didn't attempt to discredit or dehumanize them, I was there for one thing, and it wasn't to make nice.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Syria

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    This is my definition, two opposing political groups whose actions, or inactions when in office has resulted in the loss of millions of American jobs/businesses, the influx of millions of illegals, multiple wars, and a failed economy. You don't need the Internet to see the reality. In my opinion neither liberals nor conservatives have much to be proud of considering our current situations and bleek outlook.
                    My point is that the classic definition does not probably reflect what people are thinking so throwing these terms around does not really specify what someone means. And so while your definition is great for you that was not the point of my post or to imply that you need to Internet to see reality.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Syria

                      Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                      My point is that the classic definition does not probably reflect what people are thinking so throwing these terms around does not really specify what someone means. And so while your definition is great for you that was not the point of my post or to imply that you need to Internet to see reality.
                      Blue-can, we agree that the classic definitions doesn't fit, and that we don't need the Internet for this either. I understand now that your were trying to show how the classic definitions really didn't fit the present behavior or mission, so what's your take on these two groups? I am curious how other people who are comparing the track record and results of these two groups see them because I keep seeing bad regardless of which is in power. I can't even pick a clear lesser of two evils since they switch back and forth and both do their own brand of damage. The country and economy are so big and complex that folks actually think their side did a good job while in power even though the damage took years to show! I am pretty sure of where we are now and it's not good, not getting better, and got like this thanks to different agendas, neither of which was for the true good of the people or country!

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                      • #41
                        Re: Syria

                        Actually I feel like the classic definition of conservative is exactly me. I don't mind change. I just do it with caution. In my experience it seems that some just change for the sake of change and it rarely pans out like they hoped.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Syria

                          I have done a lot of government work over the years. Sorry for the label, but it is tough to be in my shoes, and have seen what I have seen, and not be a "conservative".
                          "Affirmative action" and "political correctness" and "multiculturalism" have made a mockery of public works jobs when you are forced to hire a company to fill a quota.
                          I actually have no problem with African American affirmative action to a point. Why anyone else?
                          Look at any government website and scroll down the menu of government agencies, some that we have never heard of. I have attended numerous construction meetings with people who are in layers of overlapping positions. The meetings start at 10 am so everyone can have an easy morning and leave from home. There is no profit motive for government agencies. Shouldn't our responsibilities and earnings be better left in the hands of those who are ultimately responsible for their livelihood?
                          Syria, on the other hand: He is in a no win situation. The "Red Line" comment that was eloquently described by PM Netanyahu, perhaps was not wise to be announced by Pres. Obama.
                          Question: Why do we bother being a part of the UN?

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                          • #43
                            Re: Syria

                            Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad’s regime: U.N. official

                            http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...#ixzz2drpY3M2K

                            Testimony from victims strongly suggests it was the rebels, not the Syrian government, that used Sarin nerve gas during a recent incident in the revolution-wracked nation, a senior U.N. diplomat said Monday.
                            Last edited by BHD; 09-03-2013, 07:19 PM.
                            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                            attributed to Samuel Johnson
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Syria

                              Well I guess we no longer need to worry about Syria!

                              It's not that congress is simply doing theater to entertain us..

                              But McCain was so bored with the process he was caught playing
                              video poker, during the first day of the hearings at the hearings!
                              Worse yet he admitted he lost!

                              That's my Senator! atta-boy Johnny do Arizona proud!

                              We should fly over Syria and drop BACON....they will scatter like cockroaches
                              and will shudder in the dark.....civil war over!


                              Cactus Man
                              Last edited by cactusman; 09-05-2013, 10:27 AM. Reason: spelling error

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                              • #45
                                Re: Syria

                                Remember when GW was in office? Poor guy couldn't catch a break. Everything he did the democrats jumped all over him. Called him a cowboy, reckless, dumber than dirt, a druggy and alcoholic, a cheat, incompetent, a liar......everything the republicans are now calling and saying about Obama. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
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