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  • Re: Fed shutdown

    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
    That's it!
    NHM, this link may help you understand but, yes, it's primarily though those who pay taxes wheter through payroll or other income.
    The federal govenment has more of a spending problem than earning problem.

    Besides taxes, how does the government earn income?

    Comment


    • Re: Fed shutdown

      Actually I believe the economy already suffers due to lack of affordable healthcare - I know of more than one person who has been interested in starting a business but not done so as that would mean losing the nice healthcare benefits provided by the employer.

      Not everyone's healthcare costs went up - I recently got new insurance about a month ago with comparable benefits and am paying about 25% of what I was paying before.

      It's not clear to me how much of the cost increases people are seeing is actually price gouging by the insurance companies while blaming Obamacare. Good opportunity to make more money and have people blaming everything other than the broken system.

      I happen to believe that affordable healthcare for all should be a basic right rather than an entitlement. Why so many people think it is some kind of infringement on freedom still baffles me.

      Comment


      • Re: Fed shutdown

        1836 was the last year the U.S. Didn't have a deficit.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • Re: Fed shutdown

          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
          Funny video, has zero to do with raising the national debt limit because again, our economy is based on the faith in our government who's income is not limited to having a job.
          Reasonably correct. What it does show is the inequality in the system of checks and balances in loans and spending between the private sector/individual vs. the government.

          Private sector: Must prove reasonably that any loan is needed and can be paid. The amount is limited. Interest is due and set based on history & income. If the terms are not kept then the corrective measures are reasonably swift and compelling felt and affecting directly the people seeking the funds. In short, they are punished quickly.

          Government: Nothing is really ever proven to be needed or it will be paid. The amount is only theoretically limited. Interest and deficit/debt seem to really only be theoretical talking points for political positions i.e. "To get what I want". And the most important part....THERE ARE NO REAL PUNISHMENTS!

          When was the last time you saw any person in government brought in because of the debt/deficit and their position taken away? Then their house seized? New cars repossessed? And then their little Johnny and Janie taken out of private school & put into public school?

          You haven't! Because there isn't any real incentive for them to be responsible for anything.

          What a sweet deal!

          And guess what? Whoever you love or hate in these elected and appointed positions, if removed, voted out, or they die......will be replaced by people with the same deal.

          Don't hate the players. Hate the game that they made.

          Comment


          • Re: Fed shutdown

            I think this is apropriate to this thread. (copy and paste in your browser if necessary)

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            • Re: Fed shutdown

              Originally posted by blue_can View Post
              Actually I believe the economy already suffers due to lack of affordable healthcare - I know of more than one person who has been interested in starting a business but not done so as that would mean losing the nice healthcare benefits provided by the employer.

              Not everyone's healthcare costs went up - I recently got new insurance about a month ago with comparable benefits and am paying about 25% of what I was paying before.

              It's not clear to me how much of the cost increases people are seeing is actually price gouging by the insurance companies while blaming Obamacare. Good opportunity to make more money and have people blaming everything other than the broken system.

              I happen to believe that affordable healthcare for all should be a basic right rather than an entitlement. Why so many people think it is some kind of infringement on freedom still baffles me.
              You are baffled because you have not been personally affected in a negative way, you don't understand people who have been affected in a negative way such as losing full time employment, and like many you are completely in the dark on what plan costs will be when the law is fully enacted. I agree that healthcare should be a basic right, but like many things that should be, it simply cannot be given our economy. Too much debt, too much overspending by gov't, too many people not paying into the tax base, too many people burdening healthcare because they live very unhealthy lifestyles. That last thing is just not discussed enough! Maybe things have changed for the worse but I remember meeting a lot of folks from europe and they were all in much better shape because they did not eat as much junk food, they walked or bicycled, they had less stress. I can't imagine how we are going to pay for healthcare even if more people paid into it? I know of more people who attempt to get healthy after a heart attack or some other serious event rather than living a more healthy lifestyle all along. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.

              In response to what NHM posted on when deficit spending began, 1975 was the last time we had a trade surplus. Our national debt went from a couple hundred billion in the 1960's to over 17trillion. We are a dead society importing the world's goods, unemployment is a big problem. These numbers mean something, they mean we must make more of what we consume and employ Americans. This probably will not happen, so enjoy the ride to the bottom.
              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 10-06-2013, 05:36 PM.

              Comment


              • Re: Fed shutdown

                Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                You are baffled because you have not been personally affected in a negative way, you don't understand people who have been affected in a negative way such as losing full time employment, and like many you are completely in the dark on what plan costs will be when the law is fully enacted. I agree that healthcare should be a basic right, but like many things that should be, it simply cannot be given our economy. Too much debt, too much overspending by gov't, too many people not paying into the tax base, too many people burdening healthcare because they live very unhealthy lifestyles. That last thing is just not discussed enough! Maybe things have changed for the worse but I remember meeting a lot of folks from europe and they were all in much better shape because they did not eat as much junk food, they walked or bicycled, they had less stress. I can't imagine how we are going to pay for healthcare even if more people paid into it? I know of more people who attempt to get healthy after a heart attack or some other serious event rather than living a more healthy lifestyle all along. I guess we will have to wait and see what happens.
                So let's see - you don't know much about me and your posts assumes a lot of things about me. What makes you think I have not been affected in a negative way or lost FT employment. As someone who has worked in multiple startups that have failed over the years I have lost employment multiple times. These days I consult for a living and don't bother with FT employment so I'm responsible for my own health insurance and I can see how it is compared to plans by employers. Yes I agree about the food and lifestyle but yet when I heard something on the news about how some state was trying to restrict soda (or something to that effect) people were up in arms about govt interference.

                Obviously everyone has different priorities but I would put affordable healthcare above a lot of other things. To simply say it cannot be without comprehensively looking at all possible solutions is a narrow minded view IMO.

                Comment


                • Re: Fed shutdown

                  Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                  So let's see - you don't know much about me and your posts assumes a lot of things about me. What makes you think I have not been affected in a negative way or lost FT employment. As someone who has worked in multiple startups that have failed over the years I have lost employment multiple times. These days I consult for a living and don't bother with FT employment so I'm responsible for my own health insurance and I can see how it is compared to plans by employers. Yes I agree about the food and lifestyle but yet when I heard something on the news about how some state was trying to restrict soda (or something to that effect) people were up in arms about govt interference.

                  Obviously everyone has different priorities but I would put affordable healthcare above a lot of other things. To simply say it cannot be without comprehensively looking at all possible solutions is a narrow minded view IMO.
                  My post did not assume a darn thing blue-can, I took what you posted as accurate, "Not everyone's healthcare costs went up - I recently got new insurance about a month ago with comparable benefits and am paying about 25% of what I was paying before", sound familiar?
                  I congratulate you for your perserverence in working from startup to startup, and dealing with providing for your own health insurance. I know it's costly even if you can get into a group. I'm thinking about all the folks who are working jobs in sectors that had never provided insurance in the past and now will purposely cut their hours to circumvent paying for coverage. I'm thinking of the small business person who cannot avoid providing healthcare coverage and may pay by going bankrupt. I thinking about the single person or couple who are making just enough income to force them into a choice of plans that cut their after tax income by 25% or more. There are no easy answers here. I just think given the number of people who need coverage, the number paying into the system and the overall health of Americans the outlook is bleak. Call me narrow minded but if you think really big like I have you quickly understand it cannot be! Horrible as it sounds, people need to die in order for others to live. Do you know how much procedures like heart bypass, organ transplant, cancer treatment, and kidney dialysis cost? I would like nothing more than to save lives through healthcare, education and opportunity, but in reality the deck is stacked against any possibility of that happening. We are going to sink in an overcrowded lifeboart if we don't lighten the load. I agree that narrow minded thinking is simple beahvior, we must consider as much as possible.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Fed shutdown

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    My post did not assume a darn thing blue-can, I took what you posted as accurate, "Not everyone's healthcare costs went up - I recently got new insurance about a month ago with comparable benefits and am paying about 25% of what I was paying before", sound familiar?
                    I congratulate you for your perserverence in working from startup to startup, and dealing with providing for your own health insurance. I know it's costly even if you can get into a group. I'm thinking about all the folks who are working jobs in sectors that had never provided insurance in the past and now will purposely cut their hours to circumvent paying for coverage. I'm thinking of the small business person who cannot avoid providing healthcare coverage and may pay by going bankrupt. I thinking about the single person or couple who are making just enough income to force them into a choice of plans that cut their after tax income by 25% or more. There are no easy answers here. I just think given the number of people who need coverage, the number paying into the system and the overall health of Americans the outlook is bleak. Call me narrow minded but if you think really big like I have you quickly understand it cannot be! Horrible as it sounds, people need to die in order for others to live. Do you know how much procedures like heart bypass, organ transplant, cancer treatment, and kidney dialysis cost? I would like nothing more than to save lives through healthcare, education and opportunity, but in reality the deck is stacked against any possibility of that happening. We are going to sink in an overcrowded lifeboart if we don't lighten the load. I agree that narrow minded thinking is simple beahvior, we must consider as much as possible.
                    Of course you assumed things - this is what you posted and I will re-quote
                    You are baffled because you have not been personally affected in a negative way, you don't understand people who have been affected in a negative way such as losing full time employment
                    . I posted stating information to the contrary and instead of apologizing for your mistaken assumptions you are now trying to justify what you posted.

                    I'm not going to waste the rest of time time reading the rest of your post. The rest of your post is probably nonsense judging but what I read earlier - but hey I can also play at making assumptions

                    Comment


                    • Re: Fed shutdown

                      Originally posted by blue_can View Post
                      Of course you assumed things - this is what you posted and I will re-quote . I posted stating information to the contrary and instead of apologizing for your mistaken assumptions you are now trying to justify what you posted.

                      I'm not going to waste the rest of time time reading the rest of your post. The rest of your post is probably nonsense judging but what I read earlier - but hey I can also play at making assumptions
                      Thanks for not wasting any more of your time or mine. You probably would have been confused just like I am right now

                      Comment


                      • Re: Fed shutdown

                        FYI, to this point, the government shutdown has had zero affect on me. Hope it keeps going.

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                        • Re: Fed shutdown

                          Off of a face book page, it is something to think about,

                          "People do not realize what we are dealing with"



                          (this is from a post on my facebook feed)

                          Storming the Barricades in Washington

                          I have worked in the government on and off for 40 years. During that time I became quite familiar with requisitions, bidding, awarding contracts etc. It is a time consuming process with bean-counters and pencil-necked bureaucrats every step of the way. The simplest request takes months not days or hours.

                          In less than 8 hours of the shutdown, miraculously, professionally printed 3X4 foot signs appeared all over the country in the tens of thousands saying-"this [park, facility, etc. with custom logos] closed due to government shutdown. There has not been a government shutdown in 17 years. These signs were designed, specifications were determined, signs were then requisitioned, bids were posted and vetted, government contracts were awarded. The materials were then ordered and the signs manufactured
                          then distributed U.S. Mails or freight companies.

                          This shutdown was orchestrated and planned well in advance at least 6-8 month ago. Millions of tax dollars were appropriated and spent in this process. There is a paper trail a mile long leading directly to the White House.

                          People do not realize just what we are dealing with!

                          So what do folk here think? Does she/he have a valid point? I would certainly think so!
                          Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                          attributed to Samuel Johnson
                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                          PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Fed shutdown

                            even the Bison are getting frustrated with this government shut down and taking thing in to there own means,

                            Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
                            attributed to Samuel Johnson
                            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Fed shutdown

                              The only thing that pisses me off about the Government is this:
                              I finally, after well over twelve years of hard work, reach a point where I can consider higher learning an option, and the shutdown throws my G.I. Bill benefits into turmoil. Thus once again, the privilege of improving one's self is just out of reach. I find myself at a point I swear I'm better off with nothing. At least THEN maybe I can get some paid time off for the first time in my life like the rest of my family.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Fed shutdown

                                “The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure,” he said. “It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies…

                                ...Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006

                                Mark




                                ***Origins: In 2006, while serving his first term as a freshman U.S. senator from Illinois, Barack Obama made the remarks attributed to him above during discussion in the U.S. Senate prior to the call for votes on raising the debt limit.

                                The full text of his remarks in the Senate on 16 March 2006 are:
                                "Mr. President, I rise today to talk about America's debt problem.

                                The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies.

                                Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion. That is "trillion" with a "T." That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President's budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.

                                Numbers that large are sometimes hard to understand. Some people may wonder why they matter. Here is why: This year, the Federal Government will spend $220 billion on interest. That is more money to pay interest on our national debt than we'll spend on Medicaid and the State Children's Health Insurance Program. That is more money to pay interest on our debt this year than we will spend on education, homeland security, transportation, and veterans benefits combined. It is more money in one year than we are likely to spend to rebuild the devastated gulf coast in a way that honors the best of America.

                                And the cost of our debt is one of the fastest growing expenses in the Federal budget. This rising debt is a hidden domestic enemy, robbing our cities and States of critical investments in infrastructure like


                                bridges, ports, and levees; robbing our families and our children of critical investments in education and health care reform; robbing our seniors of the retirement and health security they have counted on. Every dollar we pay in interest is a dollar that is not going to investment in America's priorities. Instead, interest payments are a significant tax on all Americans — a debt tax that Washington doesn't want to talk about. If Washington were serious about honest tax relief in this country, we would see an effort to reduce our national debt by returning to responsible fiscal policies.

                                But we are not doing that. Despite repeated efforts by Senators Conrad and Feingold, the Senate continues to reject a return to the commonsense Pay-go rules that used to apply. Previously, Pay-go rules applied both to increases in mandatory spending and to tax cuts. The Senate had to abide by the commonsense budgeting principle of balancing expenses and revenues. Unfortunately, the principle was abandoned, and now the demands of budget discipline apply only to spending. As a result, tax breaks have not been paid for by reductions in Federal spending, and thus the only way to pay for them has been to increase our deficit to historically high levels and borrow more and more money. Now we have to pay for those tax breaks plus the cost of borrowing for them. Instead of reducing the deficit, as some people claimed, the fiscal policies of this administration and its allies in Congress will add more than $600 million in debt for each of the next 5 years. That is why I will once again cosponsor the Pay-go amendment and continue to hope that my colleagues will return to a smart rule that has worked in the past and can work again.

                                Our debt also matters internationally. My friend, the ranking member of the Senate Budget Committee, likes to remind us that it took 42 Presidents 224 years to run up only $1 trillion of foreign-held debt. This administration did more than that in just 5 years. Now, there is nothing wrong with borrowing from foreign countries. But we must remember that the more we depend on foreign nations to lend us money, the more our economic security is tied to the whims of foreign leaders whose interests might not be aligned with ours.

                                Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here.'' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

                                I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America's debt limit."

                                Read more at snopes.com: Obama on the Debt Limit
                                Last edited by ToUtahNow; 10-17-2013, 09:23 PM.
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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