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  • Re: Fed shutdown

    Thanks. I'm so uninformed but am trying.

    Your post Mark shows Obama to be like many other politicians. Spineless and "amoeba-like" to the whims of what comes in order to get something for themselves. That or just don't have the faculties for the position.

    That's a bunch of words to basically call someone (Obama) a liar, isn't it?

    I do wonder if there are any real journalists out there anymore that would have an interview with him, or be at a press conference, and really turn the screws on him about doing an about face on things.

    Comment


    • Re: Fed shutdown

      It wasn`t Obama who got you into all those Middle Eastern wars it was W that is where the most of your trillions have gone the US has consentrated on everything and everywhere but home and is unsustainable thats why you have no money for medicare that other countries small countries can the days of gun boat deplomacy are well and truely over you will have to cut your military as Russia had to when it went bankrupt in the late 1980`s and now your in the same boat but your governments just cannot seem to admit it and will keep on spending until the bankers who loan this money foreclose and pitty help the whole world then it will make the great depression of the 1930`s look like a picnic

      Tony

      Comment


      • Re: Fed shutdown

        Egggggzactly. All the chicken hawks and chicken littles tearing their hair out over relatively minor expenditures when the military dwarfs them all in spending.
        sigpic

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        • Re: Fed shutdown

          ...of course lets not forget, under Obama or total welfare expenditures have grown from $334,410,000,000 to $586,540,000,000. If and when he can figure out how to implement Obamacare, $586,540,000,000 in welfare will seem like a bargain.

          Mark
          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

          Comment


          • Re: Fed shutdown

            Well considering all of the unemployment that was brought about by the previous administration, combined with the obstructionism of our Republican-led Congress, what do you expect the unemployed to do Mark? You want to see people off the welfare rolls then we have to stop the policies that were put into place that promoted out-sourcing our jobs to Asia and elsewhere.

            Regarding ObamaCare, I think too many fail to see the high cost of health care in this country. Since the 1980's that cost has skyrocketed way out of proportion to any other segement of the economy. It is grossly out of control and again, there seems to be a lot of obstruction to any kind of price regulation.

            I can well see why Obama would change his position from the time when he was a Senator. Certainly the circumstances have changed, as has his area of responsibility. I would also take into account his broader view as President and certainly he has gained much since that time in education. Is it not up to each of us to do the same thing, or are we so fixed in our positions that nothing will change our minds. We are supposed to gain from our years and our many experiences, and therefore no intelligent leader should be stuck in a position, revealing that that they have learned nothing.

            I am not sure that we can just look at the debt and exclaim it as foretelling of disaster. Inflation ramps up those numbers just like it does with everything else. Debt also needs to be addressed from a perspective of ability to pay. Certainly your debt would be nothing compared to some guy with $Billions. And, how among us probably doesn't carry a lot more debt today then they did thirty years ago... but hopefully you have more potential for covering that debt today, than you did back then also.

            I prefer to look at the national debt as compared to GDP. And if you look at it from that perspective, it is still considerable but it is NOT insurmountable with a balanced approach.

            After WWI and soon followed by the Great Depression this country, and most of the world was in shambles; add to that the debt incurred by the social policies enacted to get us out of that and we see that in 1939 we had a national public debt which was roughly 43% of GDP. At the end of WWII, 1945 saw a national debt representing 113% of GDP.

            Good economy and very high taxes on corporations and the rich, shrank that debt to 24.6% of GDP by 1974 . But in 1980, "Reaganomics" reversed that trend and the debt increased from 26.2% to 40.9% by 1988! G.H,W. Bush's policies increased that to 48.3% by 1992.

            When Clinton took office the public debt was at 49.5% and his administration policies reduced that to 34.5% by the end of his presidency.

            When G.W. Bush took office and instituted further tax cuts and a huge war, the public debt increased dramatically. Obama of course added considerably to that debt, but what choice did we have as a country. The Bush administration had launched us into two devastating wars, reduced taxes (dumb), and squandered jobs and domestic resources. We had the housing bust, and almost total financial collapse due largely to poor oversight and Republican-backed regulation softening.

            It’s like having a terribly leaking roof, you have to go further in debt to fix it, otherwise you’re going to spend far more ‘down-the-road’.

            But in spite of that, the current debt is at roughly 75% of GDP. Far less than it the 113% that we say in 1945. If you look at the numbers, you will see that those years in the 1950’s and 60’s were largely growth years, everybody did very well and the country prospered…. Because we taxed heavily those who harvested the most from that growth. Only when Reagan reduced those taxes on the rich and targeted the middle class did we see a reverse, and with it came the loss of jobs and the deterioration of the middle class, infrastructure, and the massive decline of our cities and regulation allowed corporations to off-shore and outsource.

            It takes jobs and taxes to pay down the debt. Until Congress is willing to look at that and take steps in that direction I don't see us improving enough to get ahead of this 'runaway train'. The rich don't want to pay thier way and only want to look at taking more and more from the poor and working class. We give $Billions away to corporations, but only want to skin more off the backs of those who can't fend for themselves. And to that end, we are pushing legislation and laws that give more power to those corporations and the rich. We are restricting voting hours, redistricting, and alledging non-existant events to proclaim the need to dismiss as many common low-income voters as possible. The objective being to ensure only those entitled by thier wealth will be in control of the government, it's laws, regulations... all to the benefit of giving those in control a much bigger piece of the national pie.

            All we have to do is to look at the history of our debt to see the problem.

            File:USDebt.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


            CWS

            Comment


            • Re: Fed shutdown

              Funny, during the previous administration the Democrats were called the obstructionist party. I guess it's all about perception.

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • Re: Fed shutdown

                "Be willing to change positions" is code for "follow my guy when he waffles".

                Comment


                • Re: Fed shutdown

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  Funny, during the previous administration the Democrats were called the obstructionist party. I guess it's all about perception.

                  Mark

                  Really? Hmmmmm, I don't recall that at all. They quickly seemed to be sucked in by all that fabricated intell and voted us to war. I also seem to recall that in the first few years, absolutely nothing got turned down for "W" and in return he turned down nothing from Congress.

                  However, none of that speaks to the fact that our economy isn't nearly as bad as it has been in the past, OR that the way out of it is a tax structure that pays off the debt and at the same time, pushes to put the American worker back on the job. Nor does it address all the bitching about a growing population that has no other choice but to be on wellfare. The problem is that the Republicans are no longer speaking for the American people, and chose to only address the wants of the well-to-do, and the corporate elite.

                  The really big joke of the last couple of days is that while the right-wing of the GOP has fought and lost the battle to shut down American and turn back affordable healthcare for all, and have constantly bombarded us with their idea of curbing the spending.... it seems a bit two-faced to know that in the last minutes of this squabbling Mitch McConnel managed to snag $2.2 BILLION in additional spending for his state!!! (Gee, does the guy have an election coming up or something?)

                  CWS

                  Comment


                  • Re: Fed shutdown

                    I was talking about the four years where the Democrats controlled all of Congress. Now only the Democrats in the Senate and the Republicans in the House are obstructions. Then again they are doing what their constituents want or they will be replaced. I am convinced that as long as Obama is our Divider-in-Chief, nothing will get done.

                    Where's Bill Clinton when we need him?

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Fed shutdown

                      Funny how some see Obama as the divider in chief and others see the tea party as the divisional problem, including the Republican Party.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • Re: Fed shutdown

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        Funny how some see Obama as the divider in chief and others see the tea party as the divisional problem, including the Republican Party.
                        When you have a leader they lead not delegate. Obama has been campaigning not leading. The Tea Party is a direct result of Obama's lack of leadership.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • Re: Fed shutdown

                          Of course the two party system reviles outsiders. They lose people to them.

                          I don't even follow TEA Party stuff, but any of those groups aren't intended to unite as far as I can tell....even if it is a goal. They are started simply because the two groups in power are failing the people they represent.

                          The president, on the other hand, has a great responsibility to bridge groups and to find common ground. President Obama pours gas on fires, most times unnecessarily. I don't know what the other group does that makes them "devisive" in your mind but I'd like a dozen more high profile groups that speak out against the hypocrisy and stupidity that goes on in Washington.....both sides of the aisle.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Fed shutdown

                            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                            When you have a leader they lead not delegate. Obama has been campaigning not leading. The Tea Party is a direct result of Obama's lack of leadership.

                            Mark

                            Really?

                            With all due respect, perhaps you are confusing the Presidency with a dictatorship. Every President (and every high-end executive or commander) must delegate, otherwise very little would ever get accomplished. Delegation does not alleviate one of responsibility, on the contrary it is 'responsibility' that drives a leader to put the proper people in charge of specifics needs, crisis, sub-organizations and operations. A good leader cannot dictate or even be knowledgeable at all levels, and certainly cannot lead all echelons of his command.... he must delegate to ensure that whatever operation is carried out efficiently to meet whatever objectives are jointly decided. A good leader may well have an agenda, but he must be able to put together a proper staff who have delegated responsibilities and authority to carry out that agenda. Above all, a good leader must also be open to that staff and other subordinates who have the reponsibility to table problems and alternatives.

                            Regarding obstructionism, there is a big difference between negotiation and coercion. Holding the nation's financial security hostage is NOT negotiation. The agenda of the Tea Party is not for the betterment of the nation as a whole, it is for the downsizing of the government, the division of it's people into economic and social classes, and then the dismissal of benefits to any class that does not equal it's appraisals. In other words, it is a twisted view of democracy, in which only thier kind has benefits and a voice in governing. When it speaks of the "American People" it means only thier own kind of people.

                            This is the kind of electorate that you get when you "Gerrymander" your voters into districts that will reflect only your kind. This is not Democracy, it is more like fascism and has an agenda which is to cripple the elected Executive to a point where it cannot carry forth the laws and regulations set by a majority elected government.

                            CWS

                            Comment


                            • Re: Fed shutdown

                              Originally posted by rofl View Post
                              Of course the two party system reviles outsiders. They lose people to them.

                              I don't even follow TEA Party stuff, but any of those groups aren't intended to unite as far as I can tell....even if it is a goal. They are started simply because the two groups in power are failing the people they represent.

                              The president, on the other hand, has a great responsibility to bridge groups and to find common ground. President Obama pours gas on fires, most times unnecessarily. I don't know what the other group does that makes them "devisive" in your mind but I'd like a dozen more high profile groups that speak out against the hypocrisy and stupidity that goes on in Washington.....both sides of the aisle.
                              I don't really know much about the Tea Party other than their constituents sent them there to stop the madness on Washington. I do not see them going away anytime soon. As for Obama pouring gas on the flames< I could not agrre more. There is not a partisan bone in his body.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Fed shutdown

                                Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                                Really?

                                With all due respect, perhaps you are confusing the Presidency with a dictatorship. Every President (and every high-end executive or commander) must delegate, otherwise very little would ever get accomplished. Delegation does not alleviate one of responsibility, on the contrary it is 'responsibility' that drives a leader to put the proper people in charge of specifics needs, crisis, sub-organizations and operations. A good leader cannot dictate or even be knowledgeable at all levels, and certainly cannot lead all echelons of his command.... he must delegate to ensure that whatever operation is carried out efficiently to meet whatever objectives are jointly decided. A good leader may well have an agenda, but he must be able to put together a proper staff who have delegated responsibilities and authority to carry out that agenda. Above all, a good leader must also be open to that staff and other subordinates who have the reponsibility to table problems and alternatives.

                                Regarding obstructionism, there is a big difference between negotiation and coercion. Holding the nation's financial security hostage is NOT negotiation. The agenda of the Tea Party is not for the betterment of the nation as a whole, it is for the downsizing of the government, the division of it's people into economic and social classes, and then the dismissal of benefits to any class that does not equal it's appraisals. In other words, it is a twisted view of democracy, in which only thier kind has benefits and a voice in governing. When it speaks of the "American People" it means only thier own kind of people.

                                This is the kind of electorate that you get when you "Gerrymander" your voters into districts that will reflect only your kind. This is not Democracy, it is more like fascism and has an agenda which is to cripple the elected Executive to a point where it cannot carry forth the laws and regulations set by a majority elected government.

                                CWS
                                I am fine with a leader delegating on the normal everyday business, but Obama delegates everything and then pretends he had nothing to do with anything.

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

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