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  • Re: Affordable Care Act

    ROFL,

    Okay, let me give this a good shot... but I'm not going to spend several hours trying to dig up information and links to verify this, as most wouldn't believe it anyway.

    1)The Affordable Care Act originated in the United States Senate (remember this -- it's important).

    I can't speak to that from memory, but as you may well recall this did NOT originate in the Senate alone. The Democrats had control of both the Senate and the House, and there was much work done between those two branches of the government, including participation by the Republicans who submitted more than 600 amendments, most trying to shield their friends in the industry and/or attempting to undermine the legislation by obstuction.

    2)The legislation itself, in addition to the new regulatory rules, amounts to over 30,000 pages.

    So it has been said, but I recall reading just a couple of weeks ago, that the actual "ACA" is less than the size of the last "Harry Potter" book. Perhaps the author here is referring to those hundreds of amendments which were submitted by the Republicans. Surely the "ACA" as it exists is still probably less than all the paperwork submitted by the Republicans over the last six years in their attempt to deny this benefit to the American people. Regardless, I'll have to do some research to see exactly how big this document is.

    3)Neither the President nor a single person in Congress read the bill in its entirety in large part because the regulatory details had to be worked out AFTER the legislation was passed.

    There actually may be some truth to this. I must admit it is frustrating to read this stuff in consideration of all the other documents that these people are confronted with, that's why they have "staffs". The other issue is that for a party who wishes to obstruct such legislation, part of the strategy is to submit bales of amendments and other documents. They may not succeed, but then they can claim that "nobody read all the stuff". It is no different with any bill, including the Bush administration's justification for entering Iraq and not doing it's job in Afganistran, or overseeing the Billions spent on that issue. And, it is certainly no different than the budget recently passed to gain a multi-Billion dollar project for Senator Minority Leader's home state of Kentucky, just a few months ago. (So much for trying to hold down the Federal spending.... it all depends on what's in it for themselves.)


    4)The President assured the American people that everyone (that means everyone) who currently has health insurance would be able to keep it. Both the Administration and the Democratic Congressional leadership has admitted that, behind closed doors, they knew some people would have their coverage dropped.

    True in part, and the reality is that they made an assumption. While that may make them sort of "asses" that doesn't make them necessarily liars. Did the President tell the insurance companies to drop those people? Absolutely NOT. It was the insurance companies that took that action, and to some large part did that purposely to show their own obstruction of the ACA. Hey, at one time in my youth I worked for the home office of a fairly large insurance company. Those people are in the business of making money, a lot more than they are in telling the truth or looking out for those customers whom might be on the list for a pay-out. Listen, don't you think the right way of doing this would have been for those companies to tell their policy holders that their policies were going to need "amending", rather than "cancelling"? That is the normal way of dealing with changes, unless of course there's some advantage to the insurance company itself!!!! (When you want to expand your current coverage, add on or revise and insurance policy, one usually doesn't have their policy cancelled, they have it amended.)

    5)The ACA goes before the Supreme Court which rules, contrary to the Administration's own arguments before the court, that the ACA is Constitutional ONLY because it constitutes a 'tax.'

    What is the mystery here? Do you not understand the basis of law? The ACA met "Constitutional" requirements, and that is what the Supreme Court ruled. It doesn't have to meet it on all grounds, and the Constitution does NOT say that it has too. Why is it that most of you seem to grasp the ruling that George Zimmerman is innocent, based on the slimmest of reasons, but that many other issues need to be totally one way or the other? All that is required by the law, almost any law, is that there is an "only" kind of reason why the results are justified. IT may not be fair, and it often isn't reaonable, but then such things entirely depend on the perspective from where you stand on the issue. AND, here in America, that issue is based on a majority of voters and their representatives at the time of inactment.... something that Conservatives seem to have an increasingly difficult time understanding.

    6)Nonetheless, the United States Constitution specifies in Article I, Section 7, Clause 1 that ALL revenue bills (including revenue generating bills) MUST originate in the House of Representatives. Remember when I said the bill originated in the Senate and that the Supreme Court ruled the ACA is a tax?

    Is this a "Revenue" bill? NO, I do not believe that it is. It is not generating revenue for the Federal government use for any other reason than healthcare. And, I guess from my point of view, it's not really generating revenue for the government at all. My insurance premiums are not going to the government, they're going to the insurance company. I do admit that I do have to pay something for Medicare, but that is NOT part of the ACA, nor is it an issue. But, as mentioned on question #1, the ACA was back and forth so many times, it's really a matter of technicality (and argument), as to where it originated. (Besides, how many times have we heard Speaker Boehner crying that it's the Senate or the President that hasn't presented any ideas?... Hey, you can't have it both ways.)

    7)The Administration had years of preparation before the enrollment website went live to ensure a smooth process for those Americans wanting to enroll or being compelled to enroll by law. By every metric and measure, the enrollment system has been an absolute unmitigated disaster with not one person in the Administration taking any responsibility for the massive foul-up.

    Hard to argue for sure. It is unquestionable a real screw up. But, let me ask you whether you've ever created anything close to this kind of thing? You ever do any programming, created a user interface, made a multi-user database? Have you ever worked with a team of a dozen people and delegated responsibilities? How about a hundred, or a thousand? Probably NOT! Well, I have created user-interfaces, large databases and global reporting systems. It's time consuming and it fraught with problems. And you can absolutely have everything perfectly in place and then find out the system platform or network bandwidth was totally overwhelmed. Worse is when you are underfunded, under-supported, and constantly being obstructed. As you may recall, the whole thing was originally based on each state doing their part. Each state was to set up their own exchanges, and like here in NY, we tie into the Federal system by going through our individual system of choices, interface, and structure. Well Guess WHAT? Thank largely to Republican obstructionism, that didn't happen.

    Still, the thing should have worked, at least fairly well. Problem of course is that a whole series of people didn't do their jobs properly, mostly sub-level managers, who reported otherwise. But unlike other situations that we've seen in the last decade, this one didn't get blamed on the little guy, on the enlisted guard or his NCO, it gets blamed on the President himself. No, when it comes to Obama, it's all his fault. How funny it seems that in all other areas it is the lowest of the low who is at fault and nobody in the row of leadership is ever to be blamed. Maybe that's why Dick Cheney (and others like him) gets to call President Obama a liar. He has experience where the true faults really set.

    So, that doesn't answer all the questions (yet), and of course I'm sure you and your contemporaries won't have any of it in anyway. You'll just go on believing what you will. That was my point in jumping in here to begin with. Argument using experience and reason isn't going to change either side of this argument.

    CWS

    Comment


    • Re: Affordable Care Act

      Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
      I have not read this whole thread, but I wanted to share my experience.

      This new law has kept me from getting needed refills on my meds. I been taking the Lovenox for some time now with out any issues of my current pharmacy copayment plan by CareMark along with a few other meds. Just recently CareMark could not authorize the payment for my meds due to some red tape in the ACA that requires the doctor to fill out a pre-authorization form along with other paperwork. So for the last two months Instead of paying $80.00 for my total meds, I now I have to pay $1200.00 till the paperwork gets sorted out.

      To me this law was misnamed. It does nothing to make health care affordable. It should of been named Healthcare Redtape and Tax Act
      Are you sure that is the issue here? Could it be that you've just entered the so-call "Donut Hole". I say this not out of dis-believing you, but out of my own recent experience with my wife. All of a sudden, two of her expensive prescriptions jumped "through the roof" and we now have to pay for their cost in their entirety. That has nothing whatsoever to do with Obamacare, it has to do with the way the current Medicare system is working. (And, I believe that was a Republican mandate when it was set-up... though I admit I may be wrong, afterall, I am a bit biased.)

      IF that is the case, please be assured that starting in 2014 that "hole" will be a bit smaller and it will continue to shrink to nothing over the next few years... unless of course the Republicans get their way with things.

      If that is NOT the case, then I will be the first to tell you to get on the phone and find out for yourself. Medicare is open to any concerns you may have. I say this because up until this past January, I was a Caremark customer too. I was not unhappy with them, but often it was like dealing with folks at Home Depot. I just never could quite feel all warm and cuddly in the answers or the service that I got. That of course was under my retirement benefit from my ex-employer. Thanks to Obamacare, I'm now in an employer-subsidized plan that I get to choose myself. It cost me significantly less and I have a lot better benefits. 2014 will see it cost me a bit more, but we're still ahead of what we were paying for in 2012.

      CWS

      Comment


      • Re: Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
        No offense, but the day "Texas" cares about what any state thinks would be a miracle, IMO. They seem to be at the forefront of a lot of this country's poorest examples. Everything from re-writing text books to denying proper healthcare for women, and minorities. I'm of the impression that too much of Texas is still back in an early 1800's mindset when power and belligerence were the two keys to making your place on the land.

        CWS
        Yes, Texas is certainly no California Now there is a state that's right on the money Talk about the blind, leading the blind.

        Comment


        • Re: Affordable Care Act

          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
          Are you sure that is the issue here? Could it be that you've just entered the so-call "Donut Hole". I say this not out of dis-believing you, but out of my own recent experience with my wife. All of a sudden, two of her expensive prescriptions jumped "through the roof" and we now have to pay for their cost in their entirety. That has nothing whatsoever to do with Obamacare, it has to do with the way the current Medicare system is working. (And, I believe that was a Republican mandate when it was set-up... though I admit I may be wrong, afterall, I am a bit biased.)

          IF that is the case, please be assured that starting in 2014 that "hole" will be a bit smaller and it will continue to shrink to nothing over the next few years... unless of course the Republicans get their way with things.

          If that is NOT the case, then I will be the first to tell you to get on the phone and find out for yourself. Medicare is open to any concerns you may have. I say this because up until this past January, I was a Caremark customer too. I was not unhappy with them, but often it was like dealing with folks at Home Depot. I just never could quite feel all warm and cuddly in the answers or the service that I got. That of course was under my retirement benefit from my ex-employer. Thanks to Obamacare, I'm now in an employer-subsidized plan that I get to choose myself. It cost me significantly less and I have a lot better benefits. 2014 will see it cost me a bit more, but we're still ahead of what we were paying for in 2012.

          CWS
          The pharmist told me that she is having problems with Caremark, Unicare Blue Cross Blue Shield and dozens other prescription plans. I called Caremark and found out it is due to the new regulations in the ACA and they are basically CTA (covering their ***).

          Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
          7)The Administration had years of preparation before the enrollment website went live to ensure a smooth process for those Americans wanting to enroll or being compelled to enroll by law. By every metric and measure, the enrollment system has been an absolute unmitigated disaster with not one person in the Administration taking any responsibility for the massive foul-up.

          Hard to argue for sure. It is unquestionable a real screw up. But, let me ask you whether you've ever created anything close to this kind of thing? You ever do any programming, created a user interface, made a multi-user database? Have you ever worked with a team of a dozen people and delegated responsibilities? How about a hundred, or a thousand? Probably NOT! Well, I have created user-interfaces, large databases and global reporting systems. It's time consuming and it fraught with problems. And you can absolutely have everything perfectly in place and then find out the system platform or network bandwidth was totally overwhelmed. Worse is when you are underfunded, under-supported, and constantly being obstructed. As you may recall, the whole thing was originally based on each state doing their part. Each state was to set up their own exchanges, and like here in NY, we tie into the Federal system by going through our individual system of choices, interface, and structure. Well Guess WHAT? Thank largely to Republican obstructionism, that didn't happen.

          They have been paid well over $100 million to build the site. With he actual man hours spent, they were overpaid by more than double. And yes I have written code with multi-user interfaces and database systems. With that kind of funds and the time they had, they could of made a decent working site. Not one that only had 6 people get through in the first week. All the inflated numbers you hear about people getting the ACA program are people in states that automatically qualify for the extended Medicaid. I know in Illinois they had over 100,000 people that did not qualify for the Medicaid before the ACA are no enrolled.
          Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
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          • Re: Affordable Care Act

            I wish we could disband both parties.

            Comment


            • Re: Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by rofl View Post
              I wish we could disband both parties.
              Just need to get rid of the spenders of OPM (Other Peoples Money)
              Ron Hasil Lic #058-160417
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              A-Archer Sewer & Plumbing specializing in:
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              Comment


              • Texas is a big state but per capita it's not getting that much federal money.

                Red State, Blue State: Which States Have Received the Most Federal Funds Since 2000? | TheBlaze.com

                One should also consider that states where there are a lot of elderly, the tax revenue is less and they are drawing social security that they paid into over a lifetime.

                Comment


                • Re: Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by SewerRatz View Post
                  Just need to get rid of the spenders of OPM (Other Peoples Money)
                  The illegals who are here and burdening the system (what taxpayers make up for), are not leaving. The single moms who are having babies for a living are not going to stop. The able bodied men and women who are not working and collecting entitlements, will continue to do the same things unless there are full time good paying jobs that they are "encouraged" to take. I take no joy in saying we are doomed but the facts are the facts. When you consider the trillions of debt, millions out of work, inflation, entitlements... There is no way out, no way to turn this titanic around. There is no plan, no suggestion of how things will change for the better. Folks who are pushing the failed ACA need to wise up, take off the party blinders and see things for what they are. Our government through President Obama can only shift wealth from taxpayers to those who do not pay taxes for so long, and the end is nearing. Printing worthless money eventually reaches a critical point.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Affordable Care Act

                    Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                    Yes, Texas is certainly no California Now there is a state that's right on the money Talk about the blind, leading the blind.
                    Looks like Frankie found another bag of stones to throw LOL
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • Re: Affordable Care Act

                      Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                      The illegals who are here and burdening the system (what taxpayers make up for), are not leaving. The single moms who are having babies for a living are not going to stop. The able bodied men and women who are not working and collecting entitlements, will continue to do the same things unless there are full time good paying jobs that they are "encouraged" to take. I take no joy in saying we are doomed but the facts are the facts. When you consider the trillions of debt, millions out of work, inflation, entitlements... There is no way out, no way to turn this titanic around. There is no plan, no suggestion of how things will change for the better. Folks who are pushing the failed ACA need to wise up, take off the party blinders and see things for what they are. Our government through President Obama can only shift wealth from taxpayers to those who do not pay taxes for so long, and the end is nearing. Printing worthless money eventually reaches a critical point.
                      Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and...........wrong.
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • Re: Affordable Care Act

                        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                        The illegals who are here and burdening the system (what taxpayers make up for), are not leaving. The single moms who are having babies for a living are not going to stop. The able bodied men and women who are not working and collecting entitlements, will continue to do the same things unless there are full time good paying jobs that they are "encouraged" to take. I take no joy in saying we are doomed but the facts are the facts. When you consider the trillions of debt, millions out of work, inflation, entitlements... There is no way out, no way to turn this titanic around. There is no plan, no suggestion of how things will change for the better. Folks who are pushing the failed ACA need to wise up, take off the party blinders and see things for what they are. Our government through President Obama can only shift wealth from taxpayers to those who do not pay taxes for so long, and the end is nearing. Printing worthless money eventually reaches a critical point.
                        When reading this latest diatribe of yours I thought you were talking about Australia with all the illegal boat people unmarried mothers able body men and women collecting entitlements they don`t deserve but we can still afford a government run medicare

                        Tony

                        Comment


                        • Re: Affordable Care Act


                          2)The legislation itself, in addition to the new regulatory rules, amounts to
                          over 30,000 pages.
                          I think it is more likely that this is more like the OSH Act of 1970. The Act (or law) is only a few pages,
                          But the regulations that were created from the law go on forever it seems. We know 'OSHA' as either
                          29CFR1910 (General Industry regulation) or 29CFR1926 (construction regulations), and those two sections
                          alone have a few thousand pages, but there are many more which cover other types of work and some written
                          for specific industries like mining or diving or dockwork.

                          My point is the Act or law was crafted by the Senate and House, put to a vote, and passed into legislation.
                          Following that, just as with OSHA, people who you did not vote for and have no control over wrote the regulations
                          that are the day-to-day workings of the law.

                          And THAT is where the 30,000 pages are, not in the bill that was passed by Congress.
                          Last edited by Bob D.; 11-17-2013, 06:45 AM.
                          "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                          https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                          Comment


                          • Re: Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong and...........wrong.
                            Glad to see you agree with me. All of those things are "wrong" for a growing, "Progressive" society. Paying healthy, young people to stay home and collect benefits is wrong. Paying single women to have babies as a means of living is wrong. Allowing the national debt to reach 17 trillion is wrong. Millions of Americans out of work is wrong. Not enforcing immigration laws and having millions of illegals burdening the system and not supporting it through income taxes like the rest of us is wrong! There is hope for you yet, don't ever stop learning and keep an open mind. NHM, the word progressive has a definition, responsible behavior by all Americans will lead to progress. I do not see this happening so we are doomed.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Affordable Care Act

                              The word regressive has a meaning too. LOL

                              This nation was founded by progressives with a very radical point of view indeed

                              This nation was built by progressives who thought beyond the past and the here and now

                              This nation was and is defended by progressives who also think beyond the past and the here and now.

                              Show me how conservative policies have benefited the average American or for that matter folks from aforeign nation. Just one Frankie. That's all I ask and I've been asking for a couple years now not only here but on many other forums as well. Thus far, NOBODY has come up with a single example.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                The word regressive has a meaning too. LOL

                                This nation was founded by progressives with a very radical point of view indeed

                                This nation was built by progressives who thought beyond the past and the here and now

                                This nation was and is defended by progressives who also think beyond the past and the here and now.

                                Show me how conservative policies have benefited the average American or for that matter folks from aforeign nation. Just one Frankie. That's all I ask and I've been asking for a couple years now not only here but on many other forums as well. Thus far, NOBODY has come up with a single example.
                                NHM I don't believe you read my posts, if you did, you would know I don't defend conservatives. If you want answers you need to give them. Remember what you posted when I asked you how the debt would be reduced, the economy turned around? You said something to the effect the I don't get paid to offer solutions, that's why we vote for these duffuses. The economy has no way to recover, none! No manufacturing to employ the millions out of work, and losing jobs. No way to pay down the trillions of debt. No way to pay for the growing entitlements. There is no answer but collapse. No democratic or republican plan to save us. They will continue to do nothing except damage, and folks like you believe them. I don't have your formal education, but I have wised up to our political system and where we are headed. I suggest you take off the blinders and if you can't figure out a solution accept the inevitable.

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