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  • Re: Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
    BobsPlumbing,

    I understand your opinion. But do you really think that the President, any President, is supposed to be an all-knowing Saint, that has his hands directly on all subjects, and fully knows all the ins and outs of everything?

    And if so, you obviously consider any such slip ups to be IMPEACHABLE?

    I'm not sure what world you live in, but it sure isn't the world that I've known for almost seventy years now! Every President that we've EVER had is flawed by his 'humanness'. I've never met a single person in my entire life, including myself, my closest friends and loved ones, that has not unintentionally told a lie on more than one occasion. It IS part of being human, and it speaks well that none of us, including the President or that highest ranking military General, has complete control. We need to depend on others, and other factors, and though we may be told and/or have absolute certainty that things will happend the way we say.... there is ALWAYS a chance that it may not come about that way, and therefore what results is that we have lied in any testmony that we have made about what we thought was the situation.

    Tell me Bob, did you get this hung up with any of the Bush's, or Reagan, or any other of the politicians? For example, I think GW is basically a good man, meaning well, but the lies that poured out of his mouth were monumental. Likewise, so were the number of believers. How many times did you call for his impeachment.

    Look, everybody is upset about the ACA, and some have good reason to be. If I found myself being dropped by my insurance, I would be too. But, I don't believe I'd be nearly as mad at the President, as I would be at my insurance company. Because, as I stated before... there are a lot more efficient ways of ammending my long-time policy than just abandoning me. (Normally, one is notified of a premium change because of additional benefits and possible "riders" (or is that "ryders") being ammended to the original policy.) Cancellation is the 'chicken-sh!t', way to do things, and is more intended not to keep the client, but to purposely drop them.

    But of course, you are entitled to your opinion and feelings every bit as much as I am. I just to not see the objective of Obama lieing as it clearly would have given him the black-eye that it has, and it clearly would be one more failure counted by those who refuse to admit to the advantages of the ACA for most Americans. A "lie" of this magnitude plays directly into the hands of oponents. If one believes the Obama is as cunning as he is often called, then the thinking of an "intentional lie" sort of flies in the face of that thinking.

    So, believe as you will,

    CWS
    I understand some of your opinion. I really do.

    To answer your question, it would be ignorant for anyone to think that the President, any President, is supposed to be an all-knowing Saint, that has his hands directly on all subjects, and fully knows all the ins and outs of everything. So no, I don't think that.

    It would be equally ignorant though for anyone to excuse any person directly involved in something that they lied or assume to be "misinformed" about. The President has instituted change for the whole U.S. that has been nicknamed with his LAST NAME for goodness sake! And it didn't happen overnight. In a week. Month. Six months. A year.

    What's odd to me is that you strike me as an educated person with good risk assessment and cognitive reasoning skills. Yet, you are very willing to give him a pass under the complete guess that he just didn't know. Then, you've resolved within yourself it's ok with you if that's the case.

    He gets no pass from me in this. There is no reason to forgive it. No one has presented anything to show otherwise either.

    Sorry, but your position in this case is absolutely baseless. You are literally trying to present speculative evidence as fact. Meanwhile, there is actual evidence that IS fact showing he lied and/or misrepresented.

    And now, for the 4th or 5th time, I'll repeat that there is no reason to mention past lies & inadequacies of others. Again, this is baseless reach that is only debate and brings division.

    Maybe we should discuss Clinton and the resources used in the Lewinsky case?
    Reagan and Iran Contra?
    Start using names like: Left, Right, Progressive, Regressive, Republican, Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, Tea Party, Tea Bagger, Libertarian?
    The atrocities of the Ottoman Empire?
    Etc. etc. etc.

    Doing any of it is weakness of position.

    As far as impeachment. I'll put it like this. If you work for me, (Which the President does.) and you present something to be one way, I find it out to not be true i.e. exactly the opposite, and you do not correct it to it's original position....your azz is fired.

    I've been reading as much as I can about the ACA, how it's tied into the tax system, talking to others employed and own businesses, and have spoken to 1 insurance representative.

    At this point, I still don't think I have enough information to have a conclusion. (Which I'm sure will be imperfect.)

    But I'm leaning towards the only winner in all of this is the private insurance companies.

    Comment


    • Re: Affordable Care Act

      The insurance companies are the winners in this because of the federal law. Why in the world would they want to reinstate our old policies when the A.C.A requires us and the insurance companies to have/ provide more coverage which equals more money for them. 30-40 million new people...that's a grand slam for them.

      Obama and the democrats created this, but yet he will tell the American people otherwise.

      Ted Cruz got blasted for his stance during the government shut down, when he in fact asked for delays so this mess could get straightened out or repealed. The main stream media propaganda machine was in full effect spewing nothing but lies, but in the end Ted Cruz was right!

      Why was it necessary for Obama to have a meeting with liberal journalists? What propaganda is now going to come out of the main stream media? Where is the transparency Obama promised when he was campaigning in 2008?

      Why was it necessary for Obama to change the rules again and move the goal posts back with the A.C.A. Until after the 2014 midterm? What is he afraid of?

      I'm not sure what worse, Obama lying his *** off to the American people, or the apologists on their knees sopping it up and asking for seconds and thirds.

      Comment


      • Re: Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by Flux View Post
        The insurance companies are the winners in this because of the federal law. Why in the world would they want to reinstate our old policies when the A.C.A requires us and the insurance companies to have/ provide more coverage which equals more money for them. 30-40 million new people...that's a grand slam for them.

        Obama and the democrats created this, but yet he will tell the American people otherwise.

        Ted Cruz got blasted for his stance during the government shut down, when he in fact asked for delays so this mess could get straightened out or repealed. The main stream media propaganda machine was in full effect spewing nothing but lies, but in the end Ted Cruz was right!

        Why was it necessary for Obama to have a meeting with liberal journalists? What propaganda is now going to come out of the main stream media? Where is the transparency Obama promised when he was campaigning in 2008?

        Why was it necessary for Obama to change the rules again and move the goal posts back with the A.C.A. Until after the 2014 midterm? What is he afraid of?

        I'm not sure what worse, Obama lying his *** off to the American people, or the apologists on their knees sopping it up and asking for seconds and thirds.
        Yeah, I figured it was going to be tough when Obama brought in the now EVIL insurance companies in to help craft the Bill yet put zero price restraints in. As for moving the date until after the election. you're mot really surprised are you? I'm sure Obama did not want it before the election as there are likely to be major costs increases after the end of the first year of Obamacare. That is when the risk pools are going to be reevaluated and prices readjusted.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • Re: Affordable Care Act

          You guys are absolutely amazing!

          I give NO "free pass" to Obama, as the the ACA has proven to be a real mess (and I've said that before). And obviously my previous post is 'speculation' to some extent... and I think I made that obvious, in that it is just MY opinion. However, it is really no different than your stance, as I see it.

          And excuuusss me, if any mention whatsoever of 'history' weakens my position in your eyes. But the question was, did any of that raise your ire as much as this current issue? Apparently not. Apparently dead soldiers and civilians aren't nearly as important as keeping the cash for a possible insurance premium.

          So, I'm for the ACA, plain and simple. Did the launch prove to be a disaster? Absolutely! Did Obama lie? Well the facts of today have certainly made his earlier statements false!

          Was it intentional? That answer is where we disagree. I think the 'jury is still out' ; and I say that purely from the point of view that I do not see 'probable cause' in doing so. Nothing whatsoever would have been gained by intentionally telling the lie. Where is the motive? If anything, telling this lie, intentionally, would have played directly into the hands of the opponents. Are we to believe that the President has changed his mind and thus intentionally told this lie in order to scuddle the program? Nonsense!

          Okay, so where do you guys go from here... or where, should I say, do we all go from here? What would be the results, if on Monday morning we totally forgot about the ACA? Scrapped the whole idea and simply told everyone to go home and forget about it. What DO YOU think those results would be?

          Do you think your Doctors' would suddenly cut thier charges? Maybe give everyone a discount?

          Do you think that all of a sudden the price of prescriptions would drop? Maybe those people who don't have insurance, would just stop going to the Emergency Ward anyway. Should we imagine that suddenly our taxes would go down because we no longer have to pay that gap created by Hospital financial losses?

          Maybe all the insurance companies would come up with real simple plans, and happily give us all very low premiums! Maybe even Mark's horrific monthly premium costs would drop to something more in line with the ACA predictions! Maybe? Maybe?

          But most likely NOT, as nothing of that seemed to be happening before the ACA was even "twinkle in Obama's eye". On the contrary, over the last forty-plus years the cost of health care in this country has gone up disproportionately. Much higher than any other trend, even gasoline prices!

          This country has been trying to get universal health care since the days of Teddy Roosevelt. And while we've finally passed the law, there are too many of us without the foresight to understand the need or the benefit. To that end, we are now even telling each other that Obama has "lied" and given us new ammunition to help us bring it down. Yep, God bless the President, its ALL his doing!

          So, what do you think? Should we do as Franki suggest, just let people die?

          Maybe so! Maybe we should just let people deal with their own physical inferiorities in their own way, and only within thier own means. Let's take the suggestion that we simply do away with all insurance. That way the rich can just hire thier own doctors; and the poor, well who the hell needs the poor anyway? Maybe those who are in the middle can deal with it, like if your wife has complications and you get a bit stressed on your finances, you can just sell your house... or if you're an independant, self-employed, you can sell off some tools or dump one of your employees to quickly come up with the needed cash.

          Or maybe, the insurance company can do the weeding out for us... like when your kid is old enough, he's on his own. Or maybe even if he isn't in the top percentile in school and lacks potential he's on his own. Maybe we can tell workers that they're on their own, if they're NOT management or proven to be the best and the brightest. And may be along with that, we don't let people retire after only 30 years of work, and maybe we don't provide ANY medical coverage to anyone who doesn't work, and that means retirees!

          Maybe our wives and daughters can be covered as long their healthy, but not if they're NOT. Maybe we no longer want to cover pregnancies, especially if there may be complications. Let us leave it to the insurance companies, and have only thier profit margin guide them. If you get sick you certainly wouldn't be profitable as insurance companies don't like to pay out, IT HURTS THEIR PROFITS!

          All this sounds a bit nonsensible to me, how about to you?

          What are your alternatives to the ACA?

          CWS
          Last edited by CWSmith; 11-23-2013, 11:01 AM.

          Comment


          • Re: Affordable Care Act

            And excuuusss me, if any mention whatsoever of 'history' weakens my position in your eyes. But the question was, did any of that raise your ire as much as this current issue? Apparently not. Apparently dead soldiers and civilians aren't nearly as important as keeping the cash for a possible insurance premium.

            Again, with no evidence you are willing to make assumptions without foundation. You have no information but are willing to come to a conclusion that fits your needs. Are you pro or con on Julius Caesar? .

            He lied or is incompetent. You can choose which.

            Comment


            • Re: Affordable Care Act

              P.S. There is a video in my last post. ^ Doesn't show up in Chrome for some reason. Does show up in Firefox if you're interested.

              Comment


              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                P.S. There is a video in my last post. ^ Doesn't show up in Chrome for some reason. Does show up in Firefox if you're interested.
                I have Chrome and I can see it (36 Times Obama Said You Could Keep Your Health Care Plan).

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • Re: Affordable Care Act

                  Lol
                  Attached Files

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                  • Re: Affordable Care Act

                    On a local radio station a car dealer has an ad running which uses a Bush voice impersonator
                    with him claiming that they should put a sign up on the White House which reads like a
                    McDonalds sign;

                    "Obamacare - 6 people served."
                    "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                    John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

                    Comment


                    • Re: Affordable Care Act

                      ;-)
                      Attached Files

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                      • Re: Affordable Care Act

                        The new deadline came. I suppose things are working smoothly now.

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                        • Re: Affordable Care Act

                          What difference does a deadline make? Since you regressives are so sure that nobody wanted affordable health insurance then why would the web site working or not working make a bit of difference if NOBODY is trying to get on it? Lol. The hypocrisy of the tea baggers rises once again.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • Re: Affordable Care Act

                            Am I the only one who thinks this discussion is an abuse of this forum. And a mod needs to close (and dump) this discussion. Take it to a political forum.

                            If anyone gives a rat's behind, I think the ACA will destroy our healthcare system.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Affordable Care Act

                              Don't like it.......don't read it. See how simple that is?

                              Some of us like to argue with each other here. Don't for one minute think that we are mortal enemies. I personally would very much like to spend an evening over dinner or drinks or maybe a BBQ somewhere with all of these guys because when you get past the politics, we are all just a bunch of tradesmen with a lot more in common than not. And....were having fun too.
                              Last edited by NHMaster3015; 12-03-2013, 05:22 PM.
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                Don't like it.......don't read it. See how simple that is?

                                Some of us like to argue with each other here. Don't for one minute think that we are mortal enemies. I personally would very much like to spend an evening over dinner or drinks or maybe a BBQ somewhere with all of these guys because when you get past the politics, we are all just a bunch of tradesmen with a lot more in common than not. And....were having fun too.
                                This ^^^ I can agree with.
                                ~~

                                ... it was plumbed by Ray Charles and his helper Stevie Wonder

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