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  • Re: Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by red1234 View Post
    What is the lower class ? And when does higher class began ?
    Traditionally, the lower class is the class below the working class. Upper class is those in the upper 2% of the population.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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    • Re: Affordable Care Act

      Originally posted by red1234 View Post
      What is the lower class ? And when does higher class began ?
      r
      rofl,I am making nothing of this,only wish to understand the intented meaning of whoever is speaking[ or in our case-posting].

      Comment


      • Re: Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
        Traditionally, the lower class is the class below the working class. Upper class is those in the upper 2% of the population.

        Mark
        ToUtahNow,thanks for the definition, if rolf intented this when posting,then I now better understand.
        Now what is the offical definition of lower class as opposed to working class?

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        • Re: Affordable Care Act

          Originally posted by red1234 View Post
          ToUtahNow,thanks for the definition, if rolf intented this when posting,then I now better understand.
          Now what is the offical definition of lower class as opposed to working class?
          No, you really don't understand and neither do most folks. According to the above definition the lower class is below the working class, and yet there are folks who work one or more minimum wage jobs and qualify for food stamps. Folks in the lower nonworking class have their housing paid for by taxpayers along with their food and smart phones. There are folks who work and can't afford smart phones. These definitions serve little purpose when you understand who gets what and who pays for it. Thanks to the ACA all taxpayers will be paying for somone elses healthcare, and those who work minimum wage jobs or earn better will still not do as well as many in the lower class. Welfare moms have children we pay to house, feed, educate and provide healthcare. You can't say the same of all or nowadays many working folks!
          I hope the folks who think keeping the minimum wage low and busting Unions realize they will simply be paying more and more entitlements for those living below the poverty level. The only way to a better economy and better society is through better wages, lower inflation, less fraud, and more Americans working rather than existing like livestock. Now lets get out there and buy more flat screens, laptops, tablets, xboxes, smart phones, and all the junk on qvc while folks are losing their healthcare, jobs, and hope.

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          • Re: Affordable Care Act

            It makes no difference what minimum wage is because if it goes up so will the price of goods and services. The MAN is never going to take the hit.
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            • Re: Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              It's not worth my time arguing with you. You wouldn't see or understand the truth if it slapped you in the face which in fact it pretty much does, you're just too blind and ignorant to see it.

              Oh, and thanks for repeating the Limbaugh theorem WORD FOR WORD LOL
              That's exactly what a lot of folks think about you, as you lack an original thought and quote liberal talking points. They are laughing out loud at you. Blind and ignorant describes liberals and conservatives who think their agenda is what's best for the country and people. LOL, not really, not funny at all.

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              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                You fine me a single "liberal" talking point that I have quoted or stood on.

                I'll give you a few days, have fun with that lol



                The day you can actually answer a question, or add dialog to a conversation that is useful, let me know. Lol

                Some may be laughing at me but they have stopped bothering to read what you post a long time ago.
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                • Re: Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by red1234 View Post
                  ToUtahNow,thanks for the definition, if rolf intented this when posting,then I now better understand.
                  Now what is the offical definition of lower class as opposed to working class?
                  Working class changes a bunch depending on who you are talking to. Some call the working class the middle class. Then some want to break that down into the lower middle class, middle class and upper middle class.

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • Re: Affordable Care Act

                    [QUOTE=NHMaster3015;409395]You fine me a single "liberal" talking point that I have quoted or stood on.

                    I'll give you a few days, have fun with that l

                    The day you can actually answer a question, or add dialog to a conversation that is useful, let me know. Lol

                    Some may be laughing at me but they have stopped bothering to read what you post a long time ago. [/QUOTE



                    You need to look in the mirror when giving advice. You must have convenient amnesia regarding all the times you have spoken other people's words, and actually think they are your own. LOL. I'll leave the research to some regressive, that's what you call folks who disagree with further ruining the economy, and objecting to an administration that lies. Now don't go worrying about communist china and that no fly zone or whatever it is they are doing there. They don't want war as much as us, that's why they started that whole thing I'm taking your advice about not arguing with idiots, remember we are just having fun here. I suggest you don't read my posts if the truth upsets you, that would be ignorant, and you don't want to be what you accuse others here of being. Frank, sorry I mean "chicken little" hope that helps.

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                    • Re: Affordable Care Act

                      About the response I expected lol. Ya got nothing and you know you can't find anything but its convenient for you tp pigeon hole me with a faction that you only you think you understand.
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                      • Re: Affordable Care Act

                        I'll make the necessary corrections to everyone's recent posts after I gets some pizza in me.

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                        • Re: Affordable Care Act

                          Originally posted by DUNBAR PLUMBING View Post
                          But tell me where capitalism all a sudden got a bad name.

                          Dunbar,

                          Thanks for the kind comment.

                          "Capitalism" isn't a bad thing by itself. On the contrary it is the label for the very thing that makes our country and it's citizens great. We are not alone of course, but certainly it is here that an individual with very little support, and a great deal of ingenuity and business savvy can make a place for themselves, their families, and the people that help them succeed. In a "communist" environment that kind of initiative would be slapped down and or deeply controlled and the benefits would be taken by the "State" where some of it might be distributed to the people. In a dictatorship or kingdom, most all of that benefit would go to leadership, with little or no assistance coming back, unless it was for the good of the leadership.

                          So, let's agree that "Capitalism" is absolutely the best, (except perhaps a very benevolent King or Dictator... which certainly has happened, although rarely). But what if you don't have a successful "capitalist" with an appreciative heart? What if you look at your ideas and your successes as being ALL YOU!? (and nothing contributable to any assistance from your workers, your community, or even your clients?)

                          If the powers and influence that is gained from your "capitalist" success, is not attributed to anyone but yourself, then you are totally without responsibility to anyone but yourself. Not the workers, not any of their ideas, sweat, and blood, not to your community, and certainly not to your country... IT's ALL YOU, selfishly no doubt.

                          And therein is the "bad name" of Capitalism... and it did NOT come about "suddenly".

                          If you look at the labor laws and social reforms that have taken place over last two centuries, almost all of them have come about because of abuses in our "Capitalist" system. "Capitalism" is basically a dictatorship and multiple levels of management, repeated in every company that contributes to the problem. Sometimes the issues are quickly evidenced, but most often it takes considerable time, with multiple happenings before those empowered to govern, will recognize it and legislate some rule to curb the abuse.

                          In most all cases, "Capitalism" is pretty good, it creates jobs, makes life worthwhile, increases the benefit to workers, families, the community and the country. But too often, those in power, turn greedy. We look at the enterprise, not as a working team of management, workers, investors, customers and communities, but as a "bottom line" to profit. If we are big enough in our capitalist empire, we can spend quite a bit of our "capital" to buy influence, elect people that will clear away obstacles that we target, and at the same time "grease" the avenues to allow us to increase our profits, so that we can both enrich ourselves and to enrich those who are supposed to be governing for the good of the people.

                          That is where "capitalism" gets the bad name. We look at employees, not as helpful to growth, but as assets to be managed and/or changed to optimize profits. So that means if I can hire someone cheaper than you, it is to my advantage, and I as a supreme "capitalist" have to power to do so.... no matter what you may have contributed. YOUR value is totally up to me and you are therefore disposable if I so desire.

                          Likewise, because you are totally at my bidding, I don't have to worry about your safety, of for that matter the safety of the products you may be making for ME. I also don't have to worry about the byproducts that I dump in the vicinity of my industries. The whole point is that without proper governing (or good moral fiber) I can take from you or provide for you in any manner that I wish.

                          Sadly, that is what we used to see before the mid-1930's. You as an employee had no choices or "safety net". You could always quit of course! But really how many of us, even in this day and age have that kind of choice?

                          This kind of thing doesn't often happen with a proprietor-type business. As an independent business man, you have to treat your employees and customers well, use the right materials, and buy them from sources that meet standards. Basically a small business person doesn't have the power or influence required to throw weight at any issue. Your skill and honesty is what provides for repeat customers and for keeping good employees. Otherwise, either one will leave, UNLESS there is no other option for them.

                          Basically, "dominance" is what betrays the good ethics of "capitalism".

                          For example, take Company A (which I'm quite familiar with), it locates only in small towns, dictates the wage (because there is very little competition for labor). It tells the village what it is willing to pay for taxes, and it heavily dominates the local government and even the school system, having it's executives run for office and it's employees "vote" for their "own kind". It not only owns the local plants, but it also owns the local merchants, the school, the churches, the government, and even the damned library system. It's influence even controls the local radio and television stations and EVEN the local grocery business. You do something that they don't like, and before you can blink, you will have a competitor located on either side of you. In that town, if you aren't for them, you are against them, and everything, absolutely EVERYTHING is about them, influenced by them, and beneficial for them.

                          (In this particular case, it is neither illegal or evil; but, if you are working for the "other company" it gets damned hard to take when you see your family not being advantaged and that you have to "get out of town", to purchase a product, or join something affordable.)

                          A few posts ago, Franki got upset by someone's comments about "Unions". ( I hope it wasn't mine.) As I said in an earlier post, I don't care for "unions". I have my reasons, but that is NOT saying that Unions are bad. On the contrary, "Unions" are entirely necessary in some businesses, because without the power of a united labor force, there would be too many corporations that would endanger and waste people far below their value. With very little digging, you can find all kinds of abuses in labor history, that would still exist if it were not for the power of the Union.

                          However, a Union can be as much a problem as the industry it occupies. Almost becoming "capitalistic" in it's nature to suck as much out of the corporation as possible, because it too has influence, and dominance over the enterprise. The working of "Labor" and "Management" is fraught with problems where the balance of the enterprise is in jeopardy. In a competitive market, a domineering union can put the company right out of business, OR as we have seen, right out of the country. However, there can well be businesses that are NOT in a competitive market, or in service industry where the "cost of doing business" is passed on the the regulators who dictate the prices to the customers. Often utilities and even the education system can be like that, wages and benefits are simply passed to the consumer, and therefore a dominant union has the taxpayer or the consumer pick up the bill for benefits that may well be above the norm. This kind of thing is too often well above the norm of "competitive".

                          CWS
                          Last edited by CWSmith; 12-08-2013, 06:20 PM.

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                          • Re: Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
                            I'll make the necessary corrections to everyone's recent posts after I gets some pizza in me.
                            Who is the trouble who started this thread? Those simple question have lead to insults, name calling and nightmares! I have trouble sleeping what with the sky falling Don't eat too much pizza and get sleepy on us. Remember the economy is doomed because of unsustained spending including entitlements,the ACA, no jobs, etc. Communist china is gearing up for a war that will wipe us out, that's if all the garbage they sell us doesn't do it first. Please correct away.

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                            • Re: Affordable Care Act

                              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post

                              I'll leave the research to some regressive, that's what you call folks who disagree with further ruining the economy, and objecting to an administration that lies. Now don't go worrying about communist china and that no fly zone or whatever it is they are doing there. They don't want war as much as us, that's why they started that whole thing I'm taking your advice about not arguing with idiots, remember we are just having fun here.

                              Frank,

                              You seem like a nice enough guy, but I really wish you were better informed. Maybe you don't believe anything you read or see or hear, unless it comes from the sources that you seem to cling too.

                              The economy IS BETTER, look at the numbers.

                              The labor market is improved, though admittedly you can't create jobs for unskilled labor or for those who fail to recognize that there is nothing for the job skills that someone may have ONCE had. Time and technology marches on, no one can help it if we don't make buggy wheels and whips anymore. (Or people to manually draw wonderful illustrations, because now they are all done with 3D computer animation. )

                              But I do agree with you totally about "jobs".... but it wasn't Obama who did this, in case you haven't noticed that trend started under GHW Bush's watch, was enhanced by a Republican-dominated Congress with a "veto-overrule" during Clinton's time, and then bolstered under GW Bush. Hell man, all the debt started with Reagan, continued with GHW and totally blown away under GW, which left so much wreckage that we had no other choice but to add debt in order to fix under Obama. (Still, the debt per GNP, is significantly less than it was in 1950!)

                              About your "communist" China, you need to bone up on your history and even current events.... we are managing that for the moment without sending our daughters and sons off to war. And I guess you missed the fact that the first thing we did in our response was to dispatch two B52's over the area to see just how serious the situation was. (Just so you know, those islands have been in dispute for most of the last century, that China was once our Allie and Japan once our enemy and it was US, that staked the claim and drew the boundaries because our "Allie" changed politics.) And, just in case you don't get any of that, we've been overflying THEIR airspace and monitoring their shores for decades!.... In other words, we were there FIRST, not them.

                              Read, think, and be happy.... and remember, you are what you eat (or digest I guess).

                              CWS
                              Last edited by CWSmith; 12-08-2013, 06:48 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                                another good post but alas, I suspect it will fall on deaf ears. Folks get comfortable with the things they believe and fight hard even in the face of the facts to defend their beliefs. The economy is getting better, slowly but better. When the ACA kicks in and gets sorted out, I believe it will get even better because the average guy should have more money in his pocket. Currently there are around 3 million jobs available in this country for skilled manufacturing workers. Unfortunately, there aren't 3 million skilled people to fill those jobs. You want economic and social growth, fund education. Educate people tend to make good and responsible decisions.
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