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  • Re: Affordable Care Act

    I'd be interested where you fellers get pristine information that you seem to trust with all of our lives. Seems to me you mock any source that disagrees with you.

    Where oh where do you get such impeccable information that isn't the least bit tainted by a political agenda?

    Comment


    • Re: Affordable Care Act

      Originally posted by rofl View Post
      I'd be interested where you fellers get pristine information that you seem to trust with all of our lives. Seems to me you mock any source that disagrees with you.

      Where oh where do you get such impeccable information that isn't the least bit tainted by a political agenda?
      You have a lot of nerve challenging these men who clearly know more and better than anyone here. Didn't you learn that the trillions of national debt mean nothing? Didn't they teach you that anyone complaining about losing their healthcare is either a liar or fraud? Wise up!!

      Comment


      • Re: Affordable Care Act

        I get it by reading from a of varied sources from both political sides. By studying history and by questioning what I read. I also spend time thinking about who stands to benefit and by asking what the long term ramifications are. A fe posts back I asked why the GOP has become the defector supporting party for gun rights. Do you maybe think it just might be because guns are a billion dollar business run by very rich and very powerful men?

        Frankie, just for you U.S. Federal Deficits, Presidents, and Congress

        Except for about a year during 1835–1836, the United States has continuously held a public debt since the US Constitution legally went into effect on March 4, 1789. Public debt as a percentage of GDP reached its highest level during Harry Truman's first presidential term, during and after World War II, but fell rapidly in the post-World War II period, and reached a low in 1973 under President Richard Nixon. Debt as a percentage of GDP has consistently increased since then, except during the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

        National debt of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        Last edited by NHMaster3015; 12-08-2013, 09:45 PM.
        sigpic

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        • Re: Affordable Care Act

          Fortunately for you this administration is altruistic in it's endeavors.

          Comment


          • Re: Affordable Care Act

            Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
            Frank,

            The labor market is improved, though admittedly you can't create jobs for unskilled labor or for those who fail to recognize that there is nothing for the job skills that someone may have ONCE had. Time and technology marches on, no one can help it if we don't make buggy wheels and whips anymore. (Or people to manually draw wonderful illustrations, because now they are all done with 3D computer animation. )

            CWS
            Very true - for example many jobs done on the production line by people will be done by machines bringing with it the benefits such as less human error into the process. For the loss of such jobs there will be jobs created for those designing and making such equipment. Technology marches on and it is up to each one to keep up with the changes and and make sure their skills are not getting outdated and if so make a decision about retraining or seeking another career in line with such changes.

            Comment


            • Re: Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              I get it by reading from a of varied sources from both political sides. By studying history and by questioning what I read. I also spend time thinking about who stands to benefit and by asking what the long term ramifications are. A fe posts back I asked why the GOP has become the defector supporting party for gun rights. Do you maybe think it just might be because guns are a billion dollar business run by very rich and very powerful men?

              Frankie, just for you U.S. Federal Deficits, Presidents, and Congress

              Except for about a year during 1835–1836, the United States has continuously held a public debt since the US Constitution legally went into effect on March 4, 1789. Public debt as a percentage of GDP reached its highest level during Harry Truman's first presidential term, during and after World War II, but fell rapidly in the post-World War II period, and reached a low in 1973 under President Richard Nixon. Debt as a percentage of GDP has consistently increased since then, except during the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton.

              National debt of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
              I am neither a liberal nor conservative. I believe both parties got us here, and we are doomed to a serious financial and societal collapse for the following reasons. Putting the faith based nonissue of our 17 plus trillion dollar debt aside, there is the matter of income and spending on an individual level that concerns me. Percentage wise, working folks in years past (years I have lived through) the 60's to 90's, faced rising taxes and inflation, but were still able to afford a good part of the American dream. Middle class folks paid mortgages, sent their kids to college, vacationed, bought cars, etc. Today the percentage of income necessary to buy gasoline and home heating fuel alone has taken a heavy toll on many individuals and families. That one thing in addition to inflation at the super market with rising prices and smaller packaging has further hit a person or families ability to function as once was possible. Now we have healthcare costs for taxpayers rising in multiples in order to provide healthcare for those who cannot afford it on their own. I'm not so gulible as to believe things are getting better regardless of who is in office and doing the reporting. My practical sense tells me the continuing loss of personal wealth among taxpayers in addition to rising entitlement spending, rising inflation, rising number of low pay/part time jobs, and the rest of the issues factoring into our economy, that there is no recovery to speak of.
              NHM, you CWS, and anyone else who chooses to see something that is in my opinion not there, are welcome to it. I am not buying into the smoke and mirrors, that is my opinion. Our economy is not cyclic, we are in uncharted territory, history serves no purpose in this discussion at all. Consider what I have written above and instead of posting insults and name calling, tell me if I am wrong about my conclusions. Don't have your own conversation about the 3 million jobs that require better educated folks. Tell me about the millions out of work, out of hope, out of options, trying to stay afloat. Explain to me how we change our society so unwed moms don't make having babies a way of life, as those who fathered those children shirk their responsibility. Tell me how we get the masses of obese adults and children to eat healthy and get fit thereby reducing healthcare cost. You don't have any answers to my conclusions, questions, or opinions. You simply have blind faith, and you are the one who is "ignoring" the reality of how bleak our situation is and where it is headed. The gun issue is window dressing, another distraction from the serious problems. The public is impressionable but out of touch with reality, they mourn the loss of those innocent children at sandy hook while they continue to drive while texting, talking on cell phones, under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Statistically the number of people killed by legal firearms in this country does not come close to the number killed by smoking, drinking, driving, obesity, and probably a dozen or more other preventable behaviors. Which are you more afraid of, shark attack or having a deer run infront of your car or the car approaching you? We are looking for the easy answer, the easy way out, and it is not there. The ACA was not the answer, the people who will pay for it can not affort to do so. They cannot afford the higher more costly unnecessary coverage. The small businesses cannot afford it, and neither can the workers who will be forced to become part time.

              Just look around this holiday season, and if you don't have children or don't shop for them, go to a few stores and observe. Kids around where I live are not asking for and receiving sleds, bicycles, roller skates, sporting goods, clothing, reasonably priced itiems. Kids are asking for and receiving very costily things, xboxes, games for them ($60 a piece), all sorts of electronics, in addition to the things I mentioned earlier. Our society is deep in personal debt and going deeper because people who are supposed to be responsible and tell kids NO!, are feeding into this insanity. MY point is that almost every part of our society is messed up and I see no change for the better. Manners, character, moral conduct is not on the rise. We here including myself may do our best to set a good example but that is the exception and not the rule. How can we expect positive results from our politicians given their behavior and the way things work in D.C.? Lobbyists are still giving and the legislators are still taking, where does that leave the best interest of our country and we the people? There is no talking your way out of the facts, the truth, the reality of what we are dealing with here and now. Sorry, but that's why I think we are doomed. Frank
              Last edited by Frankiarmz; 12-08-2013, 11:32 PM.

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              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                This thread has just about run it's course. Please remain respectful.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • Re: Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  This thread has just about run it's course. Please remain respectful.

                  Mark
                  Don't kill it Mark! I need one place where everyone can gather so I can correct all of them.

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                  • Re: Affordable Care Act

                    Well Bob, I'm waiting.

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                    • Re: Affordable Care Act

                      It all comes down to education. Educated people tend to fill those 3 million jobs. Educated people don't generally get knocked up at 15. Educated people don't generally tend to settle for the welfare, entitlement life. But we don't value education anymore.
                      sigpic

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                      • Re: Affordable Care Act

                        I didn`t think I would every agree with Frankie but without the union movement of years past the worker wouldn`t have the benefits they have today the capitalists were dragged kicking and screaming before they delivered them but as it happened they demanded to much the eight hour day was just one of them eight hours work eight hours rest and eight hours sleep wasn`t just given to the worker they had to form unions to get it
                        I was reading a newspaper where in the US fast food workers were on strike for higher pay as they are getting $7.00 per hour and I assume they work forty hours which come to a total of $280.00 and wonder how one lives on that when Maca`s and Hungry Jack etc are turning over billions and wonder what your basic wage in the US is?
                        Here in Australia the basic wage is $16.37 at forty hours $654.80 per week which is what the union movement has fought for over the last hundred years I would hate to imagine what type of world we would have now if they never existed
                        You see revolution is just around the corner when the populous feels it is not getting a fair share the Romans knew this and to keep the mob in check they had bread and circus and dished out money and without this Roman would have fell apart and this is why governments pay the poor to keep the plebs in line just like the Romans and if you cannot see this then pity help you as you have more to loose than they do

                        Tony

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                        • Re: Affordable Care Act

                          Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                          Well Bob, I'm waiting.
                          I'm working on it, I'm working on it! So impatient.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by rofl View Post
                            I'd be interested where you fellers get pristine information that you seem to trust with all of our lives. Seems to me you mock any source that disagrees with you.

                            Where oh where do you get such impeccable information that isn't the least bit tainted by a political agenda?
                            It surely isn't FOX news! (Nor is it MSNBC, although there's a lot more 'food for thought' there.)

                            I would agree that in the current News, there is too much political agenda. But understand, it takes some education to know what may or may NOT be true! The human mind is a wonderful thing, as it soaks up information like a sponge... but likewise, that "sponge" can be filled with sewage or pristine waters, depending entirely on where you wish to dip it. They is to know which is which, and to that end you need to have some sense of history and be able to experience as much as possible (all sides of the issue and multiple resources to verify what the real truthes are).

                            I don't think very many do that. They grow up, often trying to escape the educational system. Too often they learn more from their parents and their neighborhood invironment than they do in school. In most cases, students loose close to 80% of what they supposedly learned "last year", over their summer vacation. And in too many cases, the parents don't care or even counter the lessons being taught. I come from a family very similar to that, and to say the very least, I was no more than a low "C" student through all of high school. Any promise of attending college was totally out of the question and certainly out of any personal desire when I was seventeen.

                            But it a great big wonderful world for those who have the "eyes" to recognize it and the guts to get their heads in the right place to find that out.

                            So I've learned to listen, to look, and to do what I must in order to "believe" what people are saying. It isn't hard, and it doesn't take away a lot of time from other things. But, it does take a interest and curiosity enough to delve into things and find out for yourself what is or isn't a "probable" or a total truth. The best way for me, is to read and listen multiple sources of News and history, and to do so not just from within this country, but also internationally. Then you have to have the ability to actually 'observe'.... and also to remember those things that you have seen in your life, or the lives of your friends and loved ones.

                            It doesn't take much to look around your community, see the closed and dilapitated factories with the weeded lots, broken windows and find out or remember when that happened. It doesn't take much to look around and see all those new pharmacies, expanding hospitals, and new medical centers either... and be able to ask yourself the WHY? of any of that. Observation alone should give a person enough curiosity to look into the issues of the day. But of course, most of us don't, we're too busy putting food on the table, hassling among ourselves, or just trying to get through our day to be bothered.

                            But the answers and the truths are there, and obvious... but you have to be willing to go after the answers and find out for yourself what really is the truth about it.

                            CWS

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                            • Re: Affordable Care Act

                              Franki,

                              It's becomes pretty clear that you don't believe the answers. While I agree with some of your appraisal (though that was somewhat rambling), it has proven to be impossible to get past your rather entrenched mind-set. I don't think any presentation of facts, example, or even theory, will ever convince you to open your eyes and your mind, but then again, you seem to be happy with your stance of doom, so let it be, let it be. Maybe ten or twenty years from now you will see how wrong you were, but by then I'm sure you will have forgotten and there will always be the circumstances at that time when you will be assured of the doom that is yet to come.

                              CWS

                              Comment


                              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                                Originally posted by CWSmith View Post
                                Franki,

                                It's becomes pretty clear that you don't believe the answers. While I agree with some of your appraisal (though that was somewhat rambling), it has proven to be impossible to get past your rather entrenched mind-set. I don't think any presentation of facts, example, or even theory, will ever convince you to open your eyes and your mind, but then again, you seem to be happy with your stance of doom, so let it be, let it be. Maybe ten or twenty years from now you will see how wrong you were, but by then I'm sure you will have forgotten and there will always be the circumstances at that time when you will be assured of the doom that is yet to come.

                                CWS
                                While I agree Frank has always been the glass is half empty kind of a guy, what happens if he is right?

                                Mark
                                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                                Comment

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