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  • Re: Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
    Actually, Glassdoor reports cashiers at Costco make $11.80 per hours versus McDonald's at $7.76 so it is closer to 1.5 times the amount. That said, the cashier at Costco still make $3.20 less per hour than what the McDonald's cashiers were striking for. While I have not been to a McDonald's in years, I can't imagine their ability to deliver what you ordered has improved any. I have however been to a Costco and they are night and day above McDonald's employees.

    As for addressing "inadequate salaries" that is your perception, not mine. I'm not sure when the last time you looked for a job was but the way it works is you apply for a job knowing what you compensation will be. If you feel they are offering "inadequate salaries", you tell them no thanks and you look for a different job which pays what you feel you are worth. These jobs are not now nor were the ever meant to pay a "living wage". The reason people take jobs that pay minimum wage is to get experience and build skill sets so they can get a better job. Why not raise the minimum wage to $30 per hour and full benefits?

    MarK
    Mark, I say the salaries are inadequate because you and I are supplementing them. I disagree that people are taking those jobs for the reasons you gave. I know for a fact that jobs are scarce for people entering, or returning to the job market. My daughter who is in college and several of her friends applied for and got jobs this past summer, they were promised a certain number of hours only to find out they were misled. Employers in retail have an overabundance of people applying for jobs, any jobs, at any pay and any hours. Folks are desperate, but that does not mean they will live on those "low pay, part time jobs". We make up the difference, like it or not, and I don't like it! The reality now, is these jobs are meant to support adults and their families. We must realize our society is evolving to make up for the loss of millions of higher paying jobs, full time jobs and revenue paying businesses lost over the last forty or so years. We can have our personal opinions as to what constitutes a job worthy of a living wage, but the job market tells us who makes up the workforce. Our government is telling us through entitlement spending who gets benefits we pay for regardless of how any of us feel about the matter. My "glass half empty" attitude tells me there are not enough jobs that pay well enough to cut entitlement spending. My bad attitude also tells me businesses either can't afford to pay more and survive, or won't pay more and cut into their profits. Regadless of my personal beliefs, these things are happening and because of inflation which is driven by a number of things, I don't see any positive change in the future. I believe without a brilliant, multifaceted plan that addresses the economy, health, personal responsibility, gov't spending and many other areas, we will continue to see unrest, all sorts of failure, and a continuing decline of our society. Sorry to drone on, wish I heard something to change my perspective. Frank

    Comment


    • Re: Affordable Care Act

      It makes no difference if we supplement them or not. Raising the minimum wage will proportionately raise the cost of all goods and services, a historically proven fact. Business doesn't give a rats hind end if they are supplemented. If they have to pay more they will adjust their prices to reflect the increase and maintain their profit margin. Economics 101 folks. Sounds very un-liberal of me doesn't it lol
      sigpic

      Comment


      • Re: Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
        Mark, I say the salaries are inadequate because you and I are supplementing them. I disagree that people are taking those jobs for the reasons you gave. I know for a fact that jobs are scarce for people entering, or returning to the job market. My daughter who is in college and several of her friends applied for and got jobs this past summer, they were promised a certain number of hours only to find out they were misled. Employers in retail have an overabundance of people applying for jobs, any jobs, at any pay and any hours. Folks are desperate, but that does not mean they will live on those "low pay, part time jobs". We make up the difference, like it or not, and I don't like it! The reality now, is these jobs are meant to support adults and their families. We must realize our society is evolving to make up for the loss of millions of higher paying jobs, full time jobs and revenue paying businesses lost over the last forty or so years. We can have our personal opinions as to what constitutes a job worthy of a living wage, but the job market tells us who makes up the workforce. Our government is telling us through entitlement spending who gets benefits we pay for regardless of how any of us feel about the matter. My "glass half empty" attitude tells me there are not enough jobs that pay well enough to cut entitlement spending. My bad attitude also tells me businesses either can't afford to pay more and survive, or won't pay more and cut into their profits. Regadless of my personal beliefs, these things are happening and because of inflation which is driven by a number of things, I don't see any positive change in the future. I believe without a brilliant, multifaceted plan that addresses the economy, health, personal responsibility, gov't spending and many other areas, we will continue to see unrest, all sorts of failure, and a continuing decline of our society. Sorry to drone on, wish I heard something to change my perspective. Frank
        We are talking about two separate issues on a thread meant for a third issue. Just to stay on topic, if you think jobs are scarce now waiting until the employer mandate starts.

        With places like McDonald's keep in mind almost all of the stores are owned by franchisees. That means the owners have to buy all foods and supplies from the McDonald's Corporation. In addition to the franchise fess you have to pay each month, you have to come in with 40% as a down payment. My oldest son worked at McDonald's as a kid but knew it was not a career. Today he is a Major in the Army but still remembers his job at McDonald's fondley.

        We have another hamburger chain out here named In-N-Out. It actually happens to be Plumber Ricks favorite place to eat. They start their people at around $11 per hour. My son Jon and my daughter Jene both worked there while going to high school and a little bit of college. There are 281 restaurants but they are all still owned by the family and there are no franchises. That leaves a lot more money to pay employees so the get real quality employees. Most of the kids are honor students or college kids. My nephew worked there while he was in high school and all through college. After graduating as an mechanical engineer, he could not find a job so he continued with In-N-Out. Today he manages a store of his own and makes more than an entry level mechanical engineer.

        It sounds like the solution to the low pay in fast food is to only hire part-time workers. That would eliminate both the "living salary" and the ACA problems. Looks like a win-win for everyone but the employees.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • Re: Affordable Care Act

          Mark, if more of those jobs shift over to part time it just makes the problem of us taxpayers supplentmenting them worse. Heck, none of us have any answers to all these problems just observations. Franchise owners as well as most business owners are facing rising operating costs, so I do understand the impasse. I try to eat very little fast food, I find it cheaper, more convenient and healthier to eat at home. Getting back to the topic of the ACA, the more I hear the worse it sounds. How will the ACA, or any other entitlement spending be sufficiently funded with more and more working folks working low pay, part time jobs? I don't get it

          Comment


          • Re: Affordable Care Act

            Originally posted by BobsPlumbing View Post
            The minimum salary always restabilizes/adjusts and provides the same as before. Basic economics.
            I totally agree and while I don't claim to be any history buff, I do think the process is much faster now with inflation and other factors such as gasoline prices. I feel proportionately the minimum wage years ago bought more compared to now, although we weren't paying for cable tv, internet, cell phones for ourselves and other!!!

            Comment


            • Re: Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              Mark, if more of those jobs shift over to part time it just makes the problem of us taxpayers supplentmenting them worse. Heck, none of us have any answers to all these problems just observations. Franchise owners as well as most business owners are facing rising operating costs, so I do understand the impasse. I try to eat very little fast food, I find it cheaper, more convenient and healthier to eat at home. Getting back to the topic of the ACA, the more I hear the worse it sounds. How will the ACA, or any other entitlement spending be sufficiently funded with more and more working folks working low pay, part time jobs? I don't get it
              I don't disagree but that is hardly the fault of the owners. Again, minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. I'm fine with raising the minimum wage as high as you want as long as you don't mind closing down businesses or causing more jobs to move over seas

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                I just have to wonder where we are headed? How long can our economy sustain the supplementing, the inflation, and all the rest? Mark, I'm pretty sure a lot of businesses will close as their costs keep rising and they fail because the can't raise their prices anymore. We can survive without things like fast food, the question becomes what other businesses fail when personal budgets don't allow for the extras? When the price of inflation cuts so deep that most folks have no choice but to cut spending? You certainly could not tell there is any economic problem by following my wife and I as we Christmas shop. The excess of "stuff" bought to put smiles on the faces of kids who already have way too much makes me sick! I go along with it like a fool because it's not worth fighting over, I would lose. We don't need anything, the kids we are buying for don't need anything, we should be buying for folks we don't know! I'm confused, conflicted, as if you couldn't tell

                Comment


                • Re: Affordable Care Act

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  I don't disagree but that is hardly the fault of the owners. Again, minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. I'm fine with raising the minimum wage as high as you want as long as you don't mind closing down businesses or causing more jobs to move over seas

                  Mark
                  I`m supprised with your views Mark you give the impression you live in a bubble you sound like you had a good upbringing your parents taught you values gave you a good education you became a plumber and was sucessfull but the world dosen`t work that way the majority are losers and need help throughout life the US has 40 million known losers that will aways need help and if governments don`t help then Frank`s doom and gloom will come to pass it might not be your generation Mark but your grand children generation that does you see if you don`t have an Egalitarian soceity where everone is getting a fair go then there is only one outcome and bread and circus will not be enough

                  Tony
                  Last edited by AFM; 12-13-2013, 07:03 AM.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Affordable Care Act

                    Originally posted by AFM View Post
                    I`m supprised with your views Mark you give the impression you live in a bubble you sound like you had a good upbringing your parents taught you values gave you a good education you became a plumber and was sucessfull but the world dosen`t work that way the majority are losers and need help throughout life the US has 40 million known losers that will aways need help and if governments don`t help then Frank`s doom and gloom will come to pass it might not be your generation Mark but your grand children generation that does you see if you don`t have an Egalitarian soceity where everone is getting a fair go then there is only one outcome and bread and circus will not be enough

                    Tony

                    what? min. wage is not meant to be a min wage? that statement WAS true back in the 70's, when jobs were plentyful
                    now, there are no jobs to be found,, the kids do not want the micky d jobs and the adults that have been laid off or are being forced to work part time are looking to feed their selves..min wage should be like any other wage. a wage big enough for you to support yourself. notice i did not say a family....sorry, but you made the kiddies..you figure out how to feed em!
                    I do not see any difference in sheetrocken a house, plumbing a house, or flippen a burger
                    decent days wage for a decent days work.
                    in plumbing...your pay starts at the bottom...me, i got $3.25 hr. as i learned i made more
                    if it was not for my plumber, who fed me lunch,,,i would have starved.but i made it. and was able to hire him years latter
                    same as flippen a burger...start out low...learn then advance...

                    all these intitlements have got to stop, 17 trillion + and growing...we need to stop giving money to other countries
                    we need to rope in the politiciuans in washington, that spend spend spend ...
                    I like it like that !
                    and, It's like that now!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • Re: Affordable Care Act

                      Originally posted by AFM View Post
                      I`m supprised with your views Mark you give the impression you live in a bubble you sound like you had a good upbringing your parents taught you values gave you a good education you became a plumber and was sucessfull but the world dosen`t work that way the majority are losers and need help throughout life the US has 40 million known losers that will aways need help and if governments don`t help then Frank`s doom and gloom will come to pass it might not be your generation Mark but your grand children generation that does you see if you don`t have an Egalitarian soceity where everone is getting a fair go then there is only one outcome and bread and circus will not be enough

                      Tony
                      See it shows what you know about people. My parents were poor when I was growing up so I have worked at one job or another since I was 11-years old. My parents didn't have money for me to go to college so I made sure I sent all six of my kids to college. I am high school educated but have been taking various college classes over the last 28-years. I started when I had a daughter who wanted to take college classes at night while still attending high school. I didn't want her to go alone and I had to drive her anyways.

                      These jobs are jobs meant for what you classified as juniors. The problem is the juniors have been pushed out by the illegal aliens and now the working poor. These jobs were never meant to pay a living wage. You pay your juniors $7.89 per hour, our minimum wage is $8.00 per hour but has been approved to be increased to $10 per hour. I have no issues with the government helping the working poor but we have a system which awards you for not working and penalizes you for being the working poor. Our entitlements programs should mandate training, education and civil work rather than just a handout. President Bush help pass a welfare reform act which president Clinton implemented. Obama has now used what he has called "Executive Orders" to tear it apart.

                      By the way, egalitarian is defines as equal, not rewarded at the cost of others.

                      Mark
                      Last edited by ToUtahNow; 12-13-2013, 11:31 AM.
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • Re: Affordable Care Act

                        Originally posted by frodo View Post
                        what? min. wage is not meant to be a min wage? that statement WAS true back in the 70's, when jobs were plentyful
                        now, there are no jobs to be found,, the kids do not want the micky d jobs and the adults that have been laid off or are being forced to work part time are looking to feed their selves..min wage should be like any other wage. a wage big enough for you to support yourself. notice i did not say a family....sorry, but you made the kiddies..you figure out how to feed em!
                        I do not see any difference in sheetrocken a house, plumbing a house, or flippen a burger
                        decent days wage for a decent days work.
                        in plumbing...your pay starts at the bottom...me, i got $3.25 hr. as i learned i made more
                        if it was not for my plumber, who fed me lunch,,,i would have starved.but i made it. and was able to hire him years latter
                        same as flippen a burger...start out low...learn then advance...

                        all these intitlements have got to stop, 17 trillion + and growing...we need to stop giving money to other countries
                        we need to rope in the politiciuans in washington, that spend spend spend ...
                        I agree with most of your observations, unfortunately the entitlments will not stop. The people having children and who can't afford to provide for them whether they work a minimum wage job or have children as a way of supporting themselves, will keep getting gov't assistance we pay for! Given the job situation, economy, inflation and all that things don't look good from my perspective. I still have not heard of any plan to make the numbers work, cut entitlement spending, increase full time good paying jobs, reduce waste, etc. Our legislators play catch up, and poorly. they have no idea how to improve things. The money wasted, and damage done by the ACA in order to provide coverage, could have been prevented. What the administration did, along with damage from past administrations would not work for a family, business, or community's financial well being.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Affordable Care Act

                          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                          See it shows what you know about people. My parents were poor when I was growing up so I have worked at one job or another since I was 11-years old. My parents didn't have money for me to go to college so I made sure I sent all six of my kids to college. I am high school educated but have been taking various college classes over the last 28-years. I started when I had a daughter who wanted to take college classes at night while still attending high school. I didn't want her to go alone and I had to drive her anyways.

                          These jobs are jobs meant for what you classified as juniors. The problem is the juniors have been pushed out by the illegal aliens and now the working poor. These jobs were never meant to pay a living wage. You pay your juniors $7.89 per hour, our minimum wage is $8.00 per hour but has been approved to be increased to $10 per hour. I have no issues with the government helping the working poor but we have a system which awards you for not working and penalizes you for being the working poor. Our entitlements programs should mandate training, education and civil work rather than just a handout. President Bush help pass a welfare reform act which president Clinton implemented. Obama has now used what he has called "Executive Orders" to tear it apart.

                          By the way, egalitarian is defines as equal, not rewarded at the cost of others.

                          Mark
                          Mark, your idea of mandating training, education, and civil work in return for entitlements can only work if there are jobs available in the areas which people have been trained. Your idea which is a good one could only work if people were responsible enough to hold off having children prior to entering the job market, or entering training since child care is so expensive. There are probably dozens of other reasons such a plan would not be passed and it's unforunate because what we have right now is not working. I don't see people being mandated to get better educated, hold off having children, eat healthy, exercise, avoid credit card debt... Our society support dysfunction and irresponsibility and it starts at the head with our federal gov't . No changes, mean an eventual collapse of some sort.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            Mark, your idea of mandating training, education, and civil work in return for entitlements can only work if there are jobs available in the areas which people have been trained. Your idea which is a good one could only work if people were responsible enough to hold off having children prior to entering the job market, or entering training since child care is so expensive. There are probably dozens of other reasons such a plan would not be passed and it's unforunate because what we have right now is not working. I don't see people being mandated to get better educated, hold off having children, eat healthy, exercise, avoid credit card debt... Our society support dysfunction and irresponsibility and it starts at the head with our federal gov't . No changes, mean an eventual collapse of some sort.
                            Training and education does not require available jobs. Civil work is easy to provide except that the unions fight it every time. It sure seemed to have worked for Roosevelt. Childcare is already in place to assist the working poor and students. Obama gave States the opportunity to remove the work requirement from the welfare reform bill that Clinton implemented. Now there is no real incentive for those who want to stay on welfare. Some of the listed reasons for not requiring a recipient to work now include, bed rest, personal care activities, massage, exercise, journaling, motivational reading, smoking cessation, weight loss promotion, participating in parent teacher meetings and helping a friend or relative with household tasks and errands. It's not that these items are not important, it that they should not be an excuse for not working.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • Re: Affordable Care Act

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              Training and education does not require available jobs. Civil work is easy to provide except that the unions fight it every time. It sure seemed to have worked for Roosevelt. Childcare is already in place to assist the working poor and students. Obama gave States the opportunity to remove the work requirement from the welfare reform bill that Clinton implemented. Now there is no real incentive for those who want to stay on welfare. Some of the listed reasons for not requiring a recipient to work now include, bed rest, personal care activities, massage, exercise, journaling, motivational reading, smoking cessation, weight loss promotion, participating in parent teacher meetings and helping a friend or relative with household tasks and errands. It's not that these items are not important, it that they should not be an excuse for not working.

                              Mark
                              Point made and point taken, but as I keep hearing about many disturbing situations, "it is what it is". Mark, it's not just the little children who need care and a watchful eye. Many of the folks entering the job market or returning after their jobs have been outsourced, or after they have been victimized and lost their investments, have children that don't qualify for childcare (teens). We have irresponsible adults and teens who need adult supervision complicating an already messed up situation. I feel any suggestion by us to resolve these unsustainable, dysfunctonal problems will never come to pass. What should happen to fix things does not, and as a result these situations continue to worsen. We are left with serious problems and nothing being done to fix any of them. Good ideas are useless if not acted upon. Do you foresee anything changing for the better? I don't.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                                Give a man a fish you have fed him for a day. Teach a man to fish you have fed him for a lifetime.

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