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  • Re: Affordable Care Act

    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
    If

    If everybody did the right thing

    If teenagers didn't get pregnant out of wedlock
    If people only had kids they could afford
    Then politicians would not be able to buy votes from the poor through government assistance
    If everybody ate the right foods
    If the folks that processed food made it healthy too
    Then Monsanto would not be able to peddle their cheap GMO food lines to the masses
    If people didn't drink or take drugs
    Big PHARMA would lose demand for the vast array of medicines, especially to treat afflictions caused by Monsanto's crop meddling!
    If people didn't rob banks
    If everyone paid their own way in life
    How the hell is the Financial Industry suppose to make money if there are no loans to charge high interest rates?
    If corporations played fair
    If nobody ever engaged in risky behavior
    Then the CEO's and other executives would no longer be able to justify their outrageous salaries and bonuses!
    In short if everyone acted in a responsible manner all our money problems would go away.
    We wouldn't have cheap laborers,
    Fast food since time is money,
    Drugs to help ignore a crappy reality,
    And finally no high paying jobs to aspire too!

    Why do you hate America so much?
    Last edited by tailgunner; 10-26-2013, 06:02 PM.

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    • Re: Affordable Care Act

      What makes you think I hate America?
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      • Re: Affordable Care Act

        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
        What makes you think I hate America?
        You interpret freedom as an excuse for Americans to do the wrong things, take no personal responsibility for their actions, and have others pay for their bad behavior. That is the opposite of showing pride for yourself or your country.

        Comment


        • Re: Affordable Care Act

          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
          Look at the push back Bloomberg got over super sized soda. Then look at where the push back came from. Yep, the usual bunch of suspects lead by their fearless leaders Limbaugh, Beck and Hanity. You see, there is an entire sector of the population that can afford to eat healthy. They have the extra cash to b able to afford range raised, grass fed cattle and poultry. They can shell out the extra for organically grown fruits and vegetables and not only that, they can afford to go to the gym, have life and health coaches and access to information and facilities. Then there is that whole, much larger sector of the population that is not so fortunate. The inner city kids who's mom doesn't have either the money, time or transportation so they wind up eating processed crap that stunts their growth and cognitive function. But hey, it's their own fault for having poor parents.
          Maybe, but fruit juices and just plain old water with no additives cost the same or less than soda, AND are better for you. So there's one area where that less fortunate family can save money AND eat healthy at the same time. More home cooked meals and less fast food couldn't hurt too, and undoubtly will cost less to put on the table than fast food or some micro-meal nuked for 3 minutes because the mom either doesn't know how to cook or doesn't want to take the time to cook, or in some cases doesn't have the time to cook because she works 2 jobs trying to make ends meet.

          As Frank said the healthy choices are out there, but people won't choose them, and for various reasons. Peer pressure for kids is a big one, and the root cause for that is partly in carefully crafted advertising that drives kids to crave something and their desire to be accepted by everyone else.

          Yes, kids are in part a product of their enviroment, and much of it is beyond their control when they are young. But the part that we (society) CAN help them with is that where they are somewhat under our control and instruction, and that is right where you are NHM, in the schools. We can give them only healthy choices for meals and instruction on caring for themselves by eating healthy and exercising and maybe even go back to teaching some of the basic skills of living. If they don't want to eat the provided school meal then bring in your own on your own expense, but taxpayer paid for meals should not be harmful to their health in the short or long term.

          At least they would have one healthy meal that day.
          "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

          https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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          • Re: Affordable Care Act

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            This is more about convenience then it is about time. It is just as easy to prepare a healthy meal as it is to throw an overly processed meal into the oven or microwave. It's the same way with fast food. People go there because it is fast and convenient. Even when there is real home cooking, too much of it is things like fried chicken and macaroni and cheese. I was working with an Asian Architect one day who I noticed was crazy healthy. When I said something to him he said " I eat to live, I do not live to eat". I felt that was pretty profound.

            Mark

            Mark, I don't think you can prepare a home cooked meal in the same time it takes to nuke a couple micro-meals. It takes longer and it also requires much more cleanup.
            Not defending the habitual use of quick meals and I know how it can be tough on a single parent or a family where both parents work to find the time to prepare home cooked meals day after day.

            But I don't think as NHM mentioned that they need to prepare 3 meals a day do they? Breakfast is pretty simple for most kids over 6 or 7 to prepare for themselves, that is if they are not too busy texting someone or playing GTA on their computer. I did it when I was young as I am sure we all did, so where is the impact on the parents time in the morning? I don't see it. Lunch is provided at school or again can be prepared by the child in most cases in the morning before leaving for school. Yes, they might have to wake up a few minutes earlier, boo-hoo. I was up at 6am every school day from the time I was in 4th grade I think. Got myself dressed, made my breakfast and my lunch and ready to walk to school by 7:15 . We had a short walk to school, about 2 miles, so were there in pleanty of time for 8am school start, even got a little time out int he school yard before class started.

            But today, we have to worry about kids being abducted on tehir way to/from school so we bus them everywhere, and we bus them for other reasons too. And in doing so we took away a big part of their daily exercise and if you think about it's part of how we conditioned them for this life where they think everything should be provided for them.
            "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

            https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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            • Re: Affordable Care Act

              Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
              You interpret freedom as an excuse for Americans to do the wrong things, take no personal responsibility for their actions, and have others pay for their bad behavior. That is the opposite of showing pride for yourself or your country.
              Have you just gone off the deep end lol. I don't interpret freedom in that way at all. Those wrong things are personal choices made possible by freedom. I think its a pretty good stretch to say that fat people that smoke are anti American. I also think that governmental laws requiring folks to make healthy decisions flies directly in the face of the constitution but, to deny the cost to society and the taxpayer is living with blinders on. You can't force people to always make good decisions. It's the cost of freedom for all.
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              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                Have you just gone off the deep end lol. I don't interpret freedom in that way at all. Those wrong things are personal choices made possible by freedom. I think its a pretty good stretch to say that fat people that smoke are anti American. I also think that governmental laws requiring folks to make healthy decisions flies directly in the face of the constitution but, to deny the cost to society and the taxpayer is living with blinders on. You can't force people to always make good decisions. It's the cost of freedom for all.
                Wrong once again NHM. Society sure as heck can force people to do the right things and it happens everyday, through laws! We cannot speed, drive under the influence, or lately be on cell phones without facing serious repercussions. Earn income and fail to file a tax return results in fines, loss of personal property and or imprisonment. Smack your wife, assault another person and you face the wrath of our society. I carry the rules of our society to a sensible level by saying if you abuse your body with alcohol, drugs, junk food, lack of exercise and other irresponsible behavior, then you are hurting our society because you are making us pay for your stupidity. The cost of freedom, is obeying the laws of society and being a respectful participant. You want to give people a pass for abusing themselves, fine, so do I, just do force the rest of us to pay for them.

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                • Re: Affordable Care Act

                  Ahhhhh I see, so you're a socialist lol
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                  • Re: Affordable Care Act

                    Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                    Ahhhhh I see, so you're a socialist lol
                    In the absense of a good debate, name calling seems to be your only response. I did vote for President Obama first time around, does that count? I'm for the death penalty, I support a woman's right to abortion but not as a repeated form of birth control, I support a national gene registry to identify criminals, I support the enforcment of our immigration laws, I do not support the "affordable care act", I have voted republican in the last elections and plan to do so in the forseeable future. NHM, you can try and label me, or you can try and respond to the questions. We can all see your strengths are not in answering questions but rather asking them and name calling. I have to go exercise, talk later.

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                    • Re: Affordable Care Act

                      How is calling you a socialist name calling? Your political point of view is clearly so. As for a debate, there is no debate. You constantly deal in absolutes and your own particular fantasy of how things "should be" but they aren't and most likely, given the habits of mankind, never will be. With your skewed point of view, who you vote for makes no difference at all because neither party supports your point of view.
                      Last edited by NHMaster3015; 10-27-2013, 10:50 AM.
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                      • Re: Affordable Care Act

                        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                        How is calling you a socialist name calling? Your political point of view is clearly so. As for a debate, there is no debate. You constantly deal in absolutes and your own particular fantasy of how things "should be" but they aren't and most likely, given the habits of mankind, never will be. With your skewed point of view, who you vote for makes no difference at all because neither party supports your point of view.
                        You are still asking questions and offering no answers. I suppose your years as a republican, now switched to a democrat make more sense and offer more to the country, economy and people? Keep dreaming if it gives you comfort. I offer my ideas, opinions on a bankrupt economy, unhealthy population, and other situations with no hope that they will ever be acted upon. My understanding of where we are and where we are headed makes me a realist. I believe given the massive debt, broken economy, unsustainable situations only a person out of touch with reality (delusional) could see things improving. Keep asking questions, it is how we challenge our ideas and learn, but at some point you need to accept reality. The money was not there to pay for the wars, entitlements and now healthcare. The irresponsible person who keeps racking up credit card debt cannot afford those purchases, it is we the responsible bill payers who carry that burden. Same goes for the person who indulges in junk food, other unhealthy vices, and does not exercise but expects us to pay for his healthcare. The reality is that we will, until the money, the faith, is gone and society collapses. Try answering once in a while, you have nothing to fear except sounding foolish and that doesn't matter much. Show me the money, the jobs, the plan to pay down the debt, wean off the imports, change the mindset of the unhealthy, those having children that we pay to house, feed, educate and give healthcare. I don't expect an answer from you, those you have elected have done no better. Relax NHM it will all be over soon.

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                        • Re: Affordable Care Act

                          I understand that most folks have next to no faith in their leaders. I know that most folks think their leaders are for the most part a bunch of blithering idiots. No doubt some are, but most are educated people with years of experience. Don't you think that if there were real solutions that would stand the test of the constitution and would not cause further and worse problems down the road that the would have done something already? Do you really have so little faith in our government that you are ready for revolution? Half the problem here is that there are a whole lot of people in the media and on the Internet spewing half truths and lies with the sole purpose of stirring people up. The sky is not falling. We, as a nation have been through far worse times than these including the debt which BTW has never been paid off with the exception of a single year in 1835 IIRC. Life goes on and things change slowly. Those nut cases you read and listen too are in it for nothing more than the fame, notoriety and the money. The rubber band stretches and then is springs back. Always has, always will.
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                          • Re: Affordable Care Act

                            Originally posted by Frankiarmz View Post
                            We can all see your strengths are not in answering questions but rather asking them and name calling. I have to go exercise, talk later.
                            Franki,

                            I haven't participated in this particular discussion very much. It seems to be pointless. But I have observed one trend....YOU have spent an awful lot of time labelling people, if not with specific names, certainly with specific phrases that you love to use. You have spend a lifetime on this forum accusing others of "not thinking for themselves" and plying others for answers to your constant questioning and doomsday testimonials. Even when presented with cold, hard historical fact, you still don't believe and continue to spill your "think for yourself" empty responses.

                            Where are YOUR own answers for anything? (Oh, I forgot... you do often say that people who are sick and those who can't afford to pay for themselves should simply die.)

                            I don't know the nature of your disability, and it is certainly none of my business; and I do have sympathy for anyone who is disabled or infirm; and I don't mean to make this personal. But you, yourself, have told us that you have not worked since you were 53. I believe that I have also read that you have never had to contribute to your health insurance, since your Union managed to get that negotiated for it's labor force at Verizon. (Please excuse me if I have that wrong.)

                            So, basically as a subscriber to Verizon, I and all the other subscribers are paying an excessive rate for you to not find work in some other field. (Surely if it were not for the higher than average benefits that you receive, we would be paying far less for the services that we get.) Yet, you seem to exercize regularly, perhaps even go to the gym. I hear of you working on your cars, perhaps doing things around the house, and we all know you are well capable in your computer keyboard skills. So why are you not working at the many jobs that skills like yours could possibly fill. Why haven't you been forced to retrain and stand on your own? Surely there are jobs available that you could have done.

                            Or are we to believe all of your rants are only applicable to others?

                            Seriously though, I'm sorry that you have a disability. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. But it does get a little hard to take when you say, "we can't afford" to help others. It's a bit much to take when you seem to think that you are above those who you so want to take away from. Like with my taxes, my Verizon bill reflects a benefit cost that you may well deserve and I'm more than happy to pay for it.

                            The problem we have is not that such things are too expensive; the problem is that too few are paying taxes and too many have found a way out of paying them. This country did not have a problem with debt until the Republicans started removing that responsibility from those who could afford to pay. And in turn those people got greedy and wth their no found riches, started diminishing our jobs and then set out to demonize those who then found themselves without work and poor. The problem is not that expenses are too high, but that government income is too low, thanks mostly to Republican policies.

                            CWS

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                            • Re: Affordable Care Act

                              CWS, I'm not shy about answering questions so I'll do so one at a time. Glad to see NHM thanked you, what a shock!
                              On the name calling and labeling, I received a lot of that when President Bush was in office, I was the liberal, unAmerican. Now I have NHM, and others saying I'm a conservative, socialist and more, Do you not consider that name calling or does it only go one way?

                              I have given plenty of my opinions, ideas for what it would take to fix our different social ills, harsh as they may be. When I asked NHM, he responded that's not my job, that is why we elect dufesses. Did you not see, or forget that post?

                              I retired when I was 48 years old after just about 30 years of service. No disability pension or benefits, everything was the result of Union bargaining. You and other subscribers do not pay for my pension, it is billions in the black thanks to Verizon. Verizon no longer offers pension benefits, so relax. My health issues have to do with herniated discs, multiple abdominal surgeries and some age related issues. I do still push myself to work around the house and exercise although I'm in pain. Simply dealing with the pain and not being active would be worse in my opinion. I do not have to work, as I said there is no disability income. Hope that clears things up.

                              Lastly, you can place all the blame on republicans, but I choose to include democrats equally. Democrats and republicans have taken turn at the helm. They both stood by and did nothing to prevent illegals from breaking our immigration laws while burdening our economy. They both stood by and did nothing to prevent the loss of American based revenue paying businesses, and American jobs. I think they both profitted from big business. Both parties participated in wars "we" could not afford over the years. I see them as very similar and equally guilty for where we are right now. I hope you thank this post, and my honesty. My ideas while harsh will never come to pass. May you never find yourself in a crowded to capacity lifeboat with folks still in the water. Would you allow some to die so others might live? Would you allow relatives to invade your home and put your immediate family at risk because your relatives were irresponsible? There is plenty of blame to go around, from individuals to corporations, to special interest groups, and those we elect. Remember when folks used to say "one bad apple spoils the whole basket"? We have a lot of bad apples and no one is willing to set them aside so the rest of the basket does not rot.
                              Yes, as part of saving our economy some people must do without healthcare procedures. Probably an age cutoff of some kind is necessary. Treating preventable diseases that are the result of bad habits is another thing that raises healthcare costs to the unsustainable realm.
                              My answers are harsh but will not become reality. NHM and yourself offer no answers at all other to accept what you have been told. 17 trillion of debt does not matters, have faith? Good luck with that. We are doomed!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Affordable Care Act

                                You can't force people to always make good decisions. It's the cost of freedom for all.
                                But by the same token the public should not endure excessive expense because an individual is lazy or not caring enough about their own person to make reasonable choices in their life style or habits. There is some limit to what i should have to underwrite.

                                Its just like you can drive as fast as you want, breaking speed limits left and right; and get away with it time after time with no injury or penalty. But when you plow into the car in front of you at 50 MPH in a 35 MPH zone and that car is being operated within the law who is at fault? Does the guy that just got rear-ended deserve to underwrite part of repair of your car or your medical bills? Should he have to pay a percentage of your legal fees and any fines levied against you? Driving is a freedom earned by showing knowledge of the motor vehicles regulations and applicable laws. Its a serious encumbrance to not be able to drive to work, school, shopping as we are all well aware. We people make poor decisions behind the wheel what happens? They lose their license or get fined or some other anguish is put upon them for stepping out of line. Not so easy to impose on young ones I know and we seem to have a had time making their parents pay for their sins too. Not sure what the answer is but we sure could use one.
                                "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                                https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

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