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Should I make 220v accessible in workshop?

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  • Should I make 220v accessible in workshop?

    I currently own a TS2424 tablesaw and a MS1250 miter saw. I am wiring my workshop and have the capability to wire in 110 volt and 220 volt outlets. Should I bother with the 220v? Most homeowner woodworking tools run on 110 but I know others run on 220. I use my tools for home improvements right now but will probably get more into woodworking projects some time in the near future. I know that the TS2424 can be changed over to 220. Are there any reasons I should if the 220 is available? What benefits are there with 220? If there are any, should I make it accessible throughout the workshop? BTW, what is the best height for the outlets in the shop?

    [ 05-17-2002, 10:48 AM: Message edited by: Ivan ]

  • #2
    Ivan,

    If you have the abilility to run 220 that I would if I were you. I have both 110 and 220 in my shop. I have the TS2424 JP610 and a Jet (sorry jake) 1100CFM DC running on 220. They are all capable of running on 110. When you use 220, you will not get more power, but you will get a more efficient motor that will last longer. Another advantage of 220 is that you will get less voltage drop, so there may be the perception of more power. Since I converted mine to 220 I have noticed that the tools spin up a little faster and are less likely to bog down. This is because of the decrease in voltage drop with 220. I am not an electrician or a EE so I am not qualified to explain why there is less voltage drop maybe someone else will chime in with that explanation.

    As far as how high to locate the outlets, in my shop all but one are located 4' from the floor and this works great, you do not have to bend down to plug things in, and it makes them more accesible to work surfaces. The one that I mounted at regular height is a PITA to get at, and I a plan to relocate it when I get the time.

    Hope this helps
    -Rob<br /> <a href=\"http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/\" target=\"_blank\">http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/</a> <br />Damn, I hit the wrong nail again. Ouch that hurts

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    • #3
      Ivan,

      Which ever way you go, I would try to dedicate the circuit to the large power tools that will only be operated one at a time. If you run a dedicated DC system or even a shop vac with your tools I would isolate it from the tool circuit. If you size your wire correctly for the length of run, you should be able to avoid any noticable voltage drop. Many times the benefit seen from switching over to a 220 circuit comes from moving away from a "shared" circuit to a dedicated one.

      As RRitch stated, you will not gain any more power with this set up. You will draw the same amps either way. Over time, the motor may last longer but I think that depends a lot on how you use it and the loads it is normally subjected to. I had a choice and decided to go with 110 for versatility. I did however add (2) dedicated circuits and clearly marked them for their intended use. I really don't think you will be making a mistake either way, imho. But either way, stay with the dedicated cicuit approach.

      Wood Dog

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      • #4
        Actually, running the same motor on 220 vs. 110 will not draw the same amps, but rather just about half as many amps, and that is the explanation for the reduced voltage drop.

        The units of horsepower are watts. Watts is the product of amps times volts. If we put aside a bunch of inefficiencies and round off 1-1/2 horsepower to 1300 watts, then at 110 you'll draw about 13 amps and at 220 you'll draw about 6-1/2 amps.

        For any given wire size, voltage drop at load is a function of amps (not watts) and wire run length. Assuming two circuits of AWG #12 wire and the same length, the voltage drop at 6-1/2 amps will be less (much less) than at 13 amps.

        What kills electric motors is heat. When a motor runs, it generates heat from two primary sources: internal friction and wasted electric power. You can't do anything about intrnal friction, but wasted electric power is a function of which current (amps) is a factor. By running the motor at 220, and thereby reducing the amps, you will reduce to some extent the amount of heat generated by the motor and extend its life.

        Hmmm; the answer was so long I've forgotten the question.

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        • #5
          I would encourage converting you saw to 220v whenever possible. Your motor will run color, last longer and spool up faster. Theoretically the motor does not produce any more power, but you may see a small amount of increased power due to a much smaller voltage drop.

          Jake

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RGad:
            Actually, running the same motor on 220 vs. 110 will not draw the same amps, but rather just about half as many amps, and that is the explanation for the reduced voltage drop.

            Snip of the way to technical stuff for my brain..
            See, I knew someone could explain it clearly
            -Rob<br /> <a href=\"http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/\" target=\"_blank\">http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/</a> <br />Damn, I hit the wrong nail again. Ouch that hurts

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            • #7
              Sorry,

              spoke before I thought! (I hate it when people do that!!!!) The point I wanted to make was that the power consumption is about the same either way as is the horse power of the motor. (Note, this is not ALWAYS the case as a few motors I have seen are actually wired to take advantage of 220 in terms of additional hp)

              I selected 110 as I said for flexibility. I agree there are advantages to 220 but I'm not sure in my case if it would be a "significant" enough advantage. My calculated drop was less than 5% with the correct gauge and length. I'm not sure how important the gain would be (in my case) of improving over that.

              Wood Dog

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              • #8
                If yu are wiring or rewiing a shop by al means get the 220 out there. When the call for 220 comes you will not have to back up and say "what a DA" I could have the 220 but did not look foward enough. My case: new small shop ,there will be 220 although at this time I do not have any use for it. My electrician was by today and comfirmed that you may not want or use it today BUT tomorrow you will , Then It will cost you aga in as much it put it in...I am going for 110 /220 and the system will be HOT / & ready on SUNDAY... dd

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                • #9
                  So if you put both in (110v and 220v service, do you alternate outlets - 110 and 220 every other one?

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                  • #10
                    Ivan,

                    For what its worth,

                    I would look at my shop layout and decide where my major tools are located and where my other 110 needs would be. Mark those locations and put the outlets there. If you think the same area may need both, go ahead and put both a 220 and a 110 next to each other. Beyond the electrical code requirements, placement is up to your needs. My outlets are spaced between every 6 to 8 feet. I don't like a lot of cords running everywhere. I placed a "general" outlet AND a "dedicated" outlet (one over the other) in every location in order to cover needs now and in the future. Each one is clearly marked. Of course if you run a 220, it would be easy to distinguish. This was more work to install but I do my own wiring and outlets are relatively inexpensive.

                    Wood Dog

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                    • #11
                      Docdick,

                      So what configuration did your electrician set you up with (as to locations of outlets) for 110 and 220? Is 4' high what most people are using?

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                      • #12
                        5% is a pretty steep drop for an electric motor; the general rule of thumb is that you don't want more than 3%.

                        When calculating voltage drop, remember that "circuit length" is TWICE the length of the cable run, since the juice has to come up the A leg and back the B leg (or up the hot llead and back the neutral, in the case of 110).

                        You will find different values in different sources, but I use 1.75 ohms per 1,000 feet for AWG #12 and 0.98 ohms per thousand feet for AWG #10. At 6-1/2 amps, #12 shows a 3% voltage drop on a circuit length of about 30 feet, while #10 should be able to go about 60 feet.

                        Before anyone says, "But shouldn't you consider the circuit length all the way back to the transformer on the pole, not just your service panel?", the answer is "Yes, but . . . ." The But is that the power company probably uses AWG #0 or larger on its secondaries, and your electrician probably used #0 or larger on the service drop to your house, and for calbe of that size, less than 10 amps equals effectively zero voltage drop for several hundre feet, so you can let that part of the model drop out of the equation.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ivan:
                          Docdick,

                          So what configuration did your electrician set you up with (as to locations of outlets) for 110 and 220? Is 4' high what most people are using?
                          Here is what I did. I installed 2 20amp 110 circuits and 1 30amp circuit in the shop. I installed 1 110v outlet every 2 feet around the shop alternating between circuit a and b. I also installed 1 220 outlet on each wall and one on a pole in the center of the shop. I checked with the inspector before doing this, and it is legal to have multiple 220 outlets on a single circuit. I am able to to run my DC and either my TS or jointer simultaneously (approx 15amp total) without any problem. Like I said where I am this is legal, you should check codes in your area.
                          -Rob<br /> <a href=\"http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/\" target=\"_blank\">http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/</a> <br />Damn, I hit the wrong nail again. Ouch that hurts

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                          • #14
                            the 1 30amp circuit is the 22o circuit
                            -Rob<br /> <a href=\"http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/\" target=\"_blank\">http://home.comcast.net/~robritch/</a> <br />Damn, I hit the wrong nail again. Ouch that hurts

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