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Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

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  • Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

    I was passing through my local HD and spotted the new Ridgid R4510 portable contractor’s 10” table saw (the updated TS2400LS, out for the last several months) on the floor next to a Bosch 4100-9, and thought it would be a perfect opportunity to make an in-store first-impression side-by-side comparison. Here’s what I thought:

    Wheels and sled:

    With its air-filled tires, one might expect the Bosch to be a bit more wobbly / bouncy on the concrete floor of the HD store, versus the solid wheels of the Ridgid. But both were about the same as far as stability against shaking. Still, I could see an advantage for the Bosch for someone who actually will wheel this saw across a muddy, tire track rutted work site or torn up back yard. Since I will mostly be using it in my garage, I prefer the slightly more solid feel of the Ridgid wheels, and don’t get excited over the idea of having to fill tires periodically with air. Both saws have similar adjustable rubber feet opposite the wheels, so a tie here. (For me) a tie. For a contractor on the job site, advantage probably to the Bosch for ease of movement over rough terrain.

    The Ridgid sled is essentially the same as the last version. It opens and closes more easily, & its movement seems more ergonomic and natural than the Bosch. It is certainly quicker to open and close. It has a single latch point one operates with a toe, and which appears to be sufficiently strong for my purposes that I don’t think I’ll be worrying much about it. The latch simply keeps the rig from folding up if the handle is lifted; it doesn’t directly provide support or strength to the sled / table while in the open position. The actual support for the frame involves two large fixed pins protruding from the bars on one half of the sled frame resting on top of the frame supports on the other half. Simple, and sufficiently strong.

    The Bosch, on the other hand, has a more positive-locking 2-point latch system that requires that you lift the sled handle slightly while turning a hand-grip handle that drives two decent-sized spring loaded pins through holes in the larger diameter frame tubing of the Bosch sled. The setup does require more effort and thought to operate than the Ridgid. The sled’s movement in opening and closing isn’t quite as natural or smooth as the Ridgid. For me, as the Ridgid latch system seems adequate for my purposes; it was less of a liability than the ease of operation was more of an advantage. Hard use or extremely heavy weight may skew things toward the Bosch’s 2 pt locking system. For me, advantage to the Ridgid for ease of use.

    The Ridgid sled extends out directly to the left side of the table when the saw is open, versus the Bosch, which is much closer to the ground. I see this as a slight advantage for the Ridgid because it will keep passers by on the left away from the table and a bit less likely to trip over the sled, and the left support might actually be adaptable as a side support with a little creativity as it is just a bit below the top edge of the table. The Bosch support leg setup, though, may contribute to its stability. For me, slight advantage to Ridgid.

    Collapsed and stood on end, the standing “depth” of the Bosch is about 24.5”, the Ridgid about 22.5”. The Bosch leans when standing on end, and is a bit “tippy”. The lean accounts for about half of the difference between the footprints of the folded stands. The Ridgid stands almost perfectly perpendicular when standing on end, and is very stable when folded up. Advantage Ridgid.

    Overall measurements:

    Bosch, standing: 46”L x 29”W x 37.5-38”H (two samples measured)
    Ridgid, standing: 46”L x 29”W x 34.75H

    Bosch, collapsed: 45”L x 29”W x 23”H
    Ridgid, collapsed: 47”L x 29”W x 21.25H

    Table:

    Bosch table: 29”L x 21.5”W
    Ridgid table: 30.25”L x 21”W

    The table tops are nearly the same size. Basically a tie.

    The Bosch table is smoother (but still not smooth), and I could see material moving across it more easily. Advantage Bosch.

    The Bosch table is roughly 3” higher than the Ridgid (see measurements, above). It may not sound like much, but it is quite a significant difference when standing next to them. I am 6’, and the Bosch felt like it was a tad high, but I like to look down on my work to see where the cut is going more from a perpendicular / vertical view. The Bosch is ok with what (for me) is more of a 45-degree view of the table and blade juncture. Your mileage may vary depending on your height and preference. Where I see a benefit of looking down at my work, which might induce some bending of the neck and back, someone else who has to stand like that all day may not appreciate the sore back that might result. A taller tabletop one could stand straight beside and work on all day might be preferred. Your call. Qualified tie.

    Both saw’s tabletops have a tool less insert (now, no more screwdriver for the Ridgid, ala Bosch), using a finger hole and spring clips. The Bosch insert is open slotted (open slot at end) at the kickback pawl end, and is easy to remove with the pawls and guard still installed. The Ridgid insert has a standard enclosed slot and requires that the pawls and guard be removed before the insert can be removed. This is an advantage for Bosch when changing the blade out for another blade. (I looked at the Ridgid insert with the idea of cutting a slot in the end to match the Bosch’s, but the Ridgid uses a single detent tab at the back end of the insert to keep it in place, and it is to one side of the slot in the insert. Cutting a slot out might leave the insert a bit unbalanced/unsupported on the opposite site of the tab. The Bosch insert has tabs on both sides of its open ended slot in the insert, for support). Both have metal pads for the pawls to scrape against so the insert’s painted finish isn’t marred. Advantage Bosch (for the slotted insert).

    Bosch’s table release lever is in the front, just under the table lip. It is very easy to reach and manipulate. When the table is moved, the fence (if locked down) moves with the table (at least as far as the red plunger in the table surface will allow, as it extends up when the table lever is released. If the fence is on the inside of the plunger, say within 8-10” of the right side of the blade, it will either have to be moved to a place right of the plunger before the table lever is released, or it will have to be lifted off, up and over the plunger as long as the plunger is up. I know this may be hard to understand, but playing with it will help to see what I’m trying to say).

    The Ridgid table release is in a hole in the middle of the right side of the table, as before (some reviews I've read say it's a bit of an annoyance for those who sometimes want to use the surface as a work/drawing table. In all fairness, Bosch has a hole nearly the same size in the same place). It is easy to operate, as long as the fence isn’t on top the lever. If the fence is locked and to the left of the lever (between the fence and the blade), the table will not move until both the table lever and the fence lever are released (in other words, the locked fence also locks the table from moving). I personally don’t mind this, as I sometimes do irrational things like start to move things before I really should (yes, I do sometimes get in a hurry, but hey, I still have all of my fingers), and this extra step might stop me from moving the table and fence before I’m really done with them. Both the Ridgid and Bosch tables will slide out with their fences locked down and over the right table extension (Bosch to the right of the red plunger in the table, Ridgid to the right of its lever).

    Slight advantage to Bosch for ease of use of its table release lever.

    Spreader / Riving knife:

    The Ridgid now has a real spreader/riving knife. Both the Bosch and Ridgid knives have sets of parallel holes in them, 1 pr ea for the spreader setting and the riving knife setting. Pegs in their respective lock lever assemblies (below the table) fit into the holes to ensure a solid grip when set up. Both are pretty secure. Both turn about ¼ turn to tighten / loosen.

    The Bosch lock lever is much easier to manipulate, requiring only finger strength. The Ridgid lever, though, is fairly hard to pull up/open, and while at the store I had to get a claw hammer to get enough leverage to loosen it (I was able to tighten it back up with my fingers). Either way, wear gloves while doing this (and no jokes about me eating my Wheaties).

    The Bosch knife lowers all the way down, below the table, but it does not appear to be easily removed. Removing it shouldn’t be necessary. I fitted an 8” dado blade set on the saw, and there is plenty of clearance, even with the lock lever engaged / level / down. The Ridgid knife, though, only lowers to a level just behind the saw blade and its top point is just below the level of the top of the saw blade by about ¼”. So if you want it off the table, it must be removed. It will have to be removed for a dado blade set, as it would be in the way of the channel being cut, since it doesn’t go all the way down (like the Bosch). The Ridgid knife is open at its bottom end (versus the Bosch), so it can easily be removed (albeit after manhandling the release lever) by simply lifting it straight out of the holder. I did fit a dado blade set to the Ridgid. It will work with an 8” dado set, but the knife lock lever will need to be left in the up position. It is spring loaded, and should stay there. [NOTE: with the lever up it will hit the insert when the 8" dado blades are raised, to a point. This point still allows about 2-1/16" of the Dado blade to present itself above the insert. The Bosch allows 2-1/4" as it is. Small diff. Just FYI. added 12-10-09]

    Both Ridgid and Bosch’s pawls remove the same way, with spring-loaded buttons/pins. They’re similarly attached and removed. So are the split guards, both of which come off with a single lever, and both of which have spring clips to keep them up out of the way when wanted. The Ridgid’s guard lever is slightly easier to manipulate.

    For me, advantage to Bosch for the slotted insert (for somewhat quicker blade changes) and easier to operate knife/splitter lock lever. (Some may consider the Ridgid’s knife lock lever beneficial for its safety feature of keeping the blade in place in the event of an arbor nut failure, but I think that’s an individual preference. Post if you feel differently).

    Miter and Fence:

    Both tables have T miter slots, and write-on pencil pads (“pre-cut indicators”) in front of the blades. Bosch’s is yellow, and round. Ridgid’s is orange, and semi-oval/rectangular, and larger.

    The Bosch miter gauge has its stops on the outside edge of the gauge and are clearly visible. Ridgid’s are underneath, a bit out of sight. Bosch uses a sheet metal flip-up stop, Ridgid has a sliding round metal pin. Both work ok. Adjustments to the Bosch’s stops may be made a bit faster since you can see the stop adjustment screws from up top, but it really isn’t that big of a deal. Ridgid’s miter gauge face has two slots and washer insets on the back side to attach a custom fence or jig to it, as well as a screw hole up on top of the facing edge for attachments. Bosch only has the one screw hole on top. Fairly close. I’ll call it a tie.

    The Bosch fence seemed a bit less secure than the Ridgid. The Bosch clamps at both ends, putting pressure at a single point on the back side of the table, and across a 2” wide pressure bar at the front when the fence handle is applied. Two adjacent rails help the fence stay aligned at its front, but don’t put pressure on the rail. Two points of pressure, in theory, would give a more secure lock. But the Ridgid fence seemed a bit more secure. It only applies pressure at a single point at the back end, but this force is applied against two fixed points 8” apart at the front end. The “two points of (active) pressure” concept is matched by a “three points of pressure” (one active, at the apex) triangular arrangement. Looking at it, the Bosch fence appears far more sophisticated (over-engineered?), with a separate adjustment knob for the back point of contact, etc. But in practice, they work equally well, and in fact I would give the nod to the Ridgid. Ridgid’s fences moves more smoothly and solidly, albeit with a heavier “feel”. The Bosch sometimes “skitters” across the table, and just feels lighter and less stable. Note that the Bosch lever only requires about two-thirds the pressure to lock as the Ridgid, although this is adjustable. Still, the Ridgid lock lever inspires more confidence for me, and when it’s locked down, you know it’s locked down. Again, 6 of one, half-dozen of another.

    Both fences have face slots and top slots (the Ridgid has two top slots). The Bosch has a bubble viewer for its scale (which I’m slightly partial to), and it’s on the left side of the fence lever, a slight advantage from my standpoint. Ridgid has gotten rid of its bubble viewer window, and has a clear flat marker on its fence scale, which is on the right side of the fence lever and now has two adjustment screws (versus one before). The new viewer is set inside a metal frame on the fence handle, and is much better protected from inadvertent damage than the older TS2400’s bubble viewer, which stuck out from the fence handle unprotected. Ridgid has a new style plastic fine-adjust knob, which turns a small rubber coated wheel against the fence rail. It works as well as the old metal knob did. Not sure why they changed it. Perhaps the knurled metal on metal of the old setup wasn’t a good thing.

    I like the more solid feel and smoother movement of the Ridgid. The easier to operate lever and lighter feel of the Bosch might attract others. For me, advantage Ridgid.

    Arbor:

    The Ridgid will do up to ¾” dados, the Bosch slightly more at 13/16". The Ridgid arbor shaft measures 1 1/8" from the inside flange to the last thread. The Bosch shaft measures a hair shorter with the full sized inside washer in place, but it is removable so that the outside washer can be used as the inside washer for dado's, using the thin accessory dado washer on the outside. This should allow a full dado set with all washers in place. With all washers removed, the Bosch arbor shaft is 1 3/8". The Bosch arbor shaft has flats on two, opposite sides for its full length. Note that Ridgid's instructions for max dado setups is to use only the outside lock nut (without a washer) if that is what it takes so that some thread still shows on the arbor when installed.

    The Bosch arbor has a lever lock on the left / motor side. It’s a little on the short side, but sufficient. You still have to turn the blade to get the lock to engage the flats on the arbor shaft, and then use the one wrench to loosen the blade nut. The arbor lock lever moves and locks pretty easily, but I found I still need to use one hand to hold it up and keep pressure on it, as a moderate bump would cause it to drop. It's a nice feature, but it’s not like the two-wrench deal with the Ridgid is difficult to manage. (The real difference comes from the open slotted insert. You can raise the blade, slide out the insert, engage the arbor lock, and remove the blade from the Bosch without having to remove the spreader/knife, pawls, or guard, and the blade will clear the spreader/knife lock lever.)

    For a basic blade change on the Ridgid, you will have to remove the guard, pawls, insert, AND move the spreader/knife lock lever to the up position in order for the blade to clear it. I can see the Pro of having the lock lever serve as a blade safety, so no loose arbor nut can result in a thrown blade. But for sheer ease and (slightly improved) speed of blade changes, advantage to Bosch.

    NOTE: See blade changing speed comparison in post below.



    (see next pg)
    Last edited by rcxrc; 12-10-2009, 11:59 AM.
    RCx

    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
    --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

  • #2
    Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

    (continued)

    Blade bevel and height adjustments:

    I’m going to just come right out and say I prefer the Ridgid set-up for adjusting blade bevel and height. It has more fail-safes and fine-tuning adjustment options in place than the Bosch, which seems overly simplified. Even if I was a contractor and worried about sheer “speed” of adjustments, I just can’t see any advantage for the Bosch. Until / unless someone batting for Bosch can explain how its set up is superior, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it.

    The Bosch’s bevel adjustment is a simple lever you have to very forcibly loosen (I did so by hitting it a few times with the palm of my hand in the small space under the table, with all the attendant risks of banging my knuckles, which I did), then you have to push or pull that lever manually to your setting, and finally forcibly push/bang on the lock lever to secure it. There is no “positive stop” feel to this adjustment. It is very, very basic, and does not inspire confidence for me. Just my opinion.

    Ridgid has a large, flat lock lever / handle that must first be pulled out (fairly easy), then you have two choices. Push on the spring loaded adjustment ring about ½” to clear its gear teeth and you can just swing the motor/blade assembly freely just like the Bosch. Or, you can rotate the adjustment ring and fine-tune the bevel angle. Then secure the lock lever, and you’re done. Much finer adjustments, easier manipulation of the wheels/levers, no banging.

    The Bosch blade height adjustment is a single crank in front. It has no lock. Bump it, or if it moves for any other reason, well, it will move. If I had to set up the blade, then pack, move and unpack the saw to try and duplicate the setup, I’d be skeptical that it would be in the same place.

    The only obvious advantage with the Bosch is that it is rated to -2 degrees, up to 47 degrees bevel (+/- 2 deg farther than Ridgid’s standard 0-45 deg range). I played with it, and I didn’t see it having that much range adjustment beyond the 0-45 deg marks on its scale, but I’m sure the stops just needed to be adjusted. Not sure if the Ridgid stops can be adjusted to allow this.

    Ridgid has a crank in the same place in front too, but that crank has a small lock lever on its face that will lock your adjusted blade height.

    Other:

    Both saws advertise having soft start. Unknown if either has an electric brake.


    Bosch’s power switch has a slot through it so it can be secured with a long hasp lock.

    Ridgid’s power switch (now moved to the same place as the Bosch’s, down low but out front to the left of the saw, and easily turned off. An intentional knee bump works well on it. No more hunting for the switch under the table) has a removable “key” (plastic insert) to disable it.

    Storage for both saws is good. The only significant difference is that Ridgid has moved the fence storage to a rail inside the body of the saw, which you feed the fence into from the right side. Only the fence handle sticks out. The rail, however, faces upwards, and a comment made in another review I read suggested that if the rail is stored there when not in use (say, while doing freehand work), it could easily fill with sawdust. Agreed. Of small note is that Bosch's wrench is held in place with a metal wingnut that comes off quickly, and if it falls it will land in a nicely placed holder just below where the wrench is stored. Ridgid's nut is plastic on a plastic shaft, and if it falls it lands on the floor. Small detail.

    Bosch's dust collection port is metal, Ridgid's is plastic. The bottom of the Bosch dust collection chute has an odd 1/2" or so bump up right before it gets to the chute opening. Not sure if this would actually impact performance. The Bosch blade is centered better in the dust collection area, where as the Ridgid blade is offset. No sure if this matters, either. The bottom of the Ridgid's dust collection cover sweeps nicely down into the chute, although its opening is slightly smaller than the Bosch. Again, none of this may matter. Interested in hearing from those who may have used both which, if either, works better. Lastly, the Ridgid no longer has the 3 vertical fins in the dust collection chute opening that clogged with pieces and earned some complaints. A very welcome improvement.

    Probably one of the biggest deals of all, the new Ridgid is rated to cut 3 ½” of material, versus its old rating (and Bosch’s rating) of 3 1/8”. That’s really nice for cutting 4x4 and 6x4 material in one pass (just FYI, the blade just clears 3 ½” by a sixteenth or less)! [NOTE: my 4x4's tend to run closer to 3 3/8", so there's plenty of clearance, about 1/8+". added 12-20-09]

    NOTE: Ridgid apparently was able to do this by cutting out a 2" section of the motor mount just under the table insert, allowing the arbor to be moved up a bit higher. It didn't appear to be *too* structurally less sound, but I'll have to take a closer look when I get another chance. Anyone else? [NOTE: Although you might be tempted to torque the crank / arbor / blade all-the-way-up to maximize cut depth, I don't recommended it. Doing so pushes the arbor base against the underside of the table top, and the blade will angle ever so slightly off, no longer 90 degrees. Back off just a tad. You'll only lose about 1/16" or so depth doing that, but the blade won't be off. added 12-20-09]

    The Ridgid TS2400 was listed at 122 lbs. Haven't found full specs for R4510 yet. Should be pretty close. [NOTE: this must be shipping wt. weighed mine in at 97 lbs. added 12-20-09]. Bosch variously lists online at 99 and 109 lbs "with portable base". Don't know if that includes with the fence attached. [NOTE: on Bosch's website, it shows 99 lbs for the 4100-9, incl sled. added 12-20-09].

    Summary:

    It was pretty easy for me to just straight out recommend the Ridgid as a best buy, since it lists at $100 less than the Bosch ($499 vs $599), especially when one throws in the 15%+ discount (for another $75 off, down to $424 or so) with the Ridgid “Friends and Family” mfg’s rebate that is currently good through the end of the year. $175 less than the Bosch for a saw that is very comparable, has more pro’s than con’s, and will cut 4x4’s would seem like a no brainer.

    But two things have me backing up just a bit. As I was checking out the saws this weekend at Home Depot, I dropped by a Lowes on a last minute thing to check one measurement, and noticed that Lowes’ price for the Bosch had very recently been reduced by $50 to $549. Throw in a Lowes 10% discount coupon (I’ve yet to find one myself, but others have posted elsewhere that they are out there, perhaps in USPS moving kits, etc) or get HD to give an addl 10% price match guarantee to bring the Bosch down to around $494, and you’ve only got a $70 difference. Get a manager to accept doubling up on some Harbor Freight coupons, and......well, you get the idea. [NOTE: I actually checked a dozen HD's, and found 3 that accepted those 20% off Harbor Freight coupons you find in your American Legion or USA Today magazines. Those HD's were all in relatively busier stores, and where a lot of contractors in L.A. pick up their supplies on the way to the job site. Figure they do so much business they're ok taking anything to keep the contractors coming in. 20% direct from HD or from Ridgid is fine either way! added 12-20-09]

    So, it really comes down to what you like or don’t like about each model. Hence the great detail in my review. It isn’t so much about the money any more.

    The Bosch has the inflatable wheels, higher table, little bit fancier and easier to use riving knife/spreader setup, easier to lock (albeit not as secure feeling) fence, somewhat more secure stand locking mechanism, an arbor lock (for one wrench blade changes), slightly smoother top, (from appearances only…I haven’t confirmed yet...) ... perhaps somewhat more efficient dust/chip collection, and a bit easier to use table top extension release lever. The Bosch will probably have a wider availability of accessories (inserts, out feed supports, etc), as their distribution network is much wider.

    The Ridgid has solid wheels (my personal preference, although I am sure they can be fitted with air-filled ones if someone really wanted them), a lower table (again, my personal preference), an easier to operate stand locking mechanism and opening procedure, a heavier, more secure feeling fence, better stability while folded up, a vastly better (in my opinion, albeit without the +/-2 deg adjustment beyond the 0-45 deg range) bevel adjustment and blade height adjustment procedure (although a contractor more concerned with sheer speed for adjustments might disagree), spreader/riving knife lock lever that doubles as a blade safety (advantage or hindrance…?), a nicer miter gauge (as far as adapting custom fences or jigs to it), and 3 ½” cutting capacity.

    Your call.



    P.S. On a lark, I decided to do a blade changing speed comparison between the two saws. I did 10 changes with each saw. I set both up with the blade up all the way, spreader installed and up with the guard and pawls installed, with the inserts in place. I set both arbors with the flats pointed up vertically as I wanted to remove the chance factor (time finding them), and instead set a fixed standard for finding and locking / securing the arbor shaft with either the Bosch lock latch, or the Ridgid wrench, which I figured would take about the same amount of time to secure using either method.


    After starting the timer, I removed the blades on each and lifted them just high enough to clear the top of the table, then reinstalled them and put everything back together. For the Bosch, this meant removing the insert, moving the blade slightly to be able to lift and engage the arbor locking lever, loosen the arbor nut with the wrench, unthread the nut, remove the washer, remove the blade, then reverse the sequence. For the Ridgid, I removed the guard, pawls, insert, used a pry bar (long screwdriver) leveraged against the arbor nut to loosen the spreader/knife lock lever, secured the arbor using one wrench, loosened the nut with the other, removed the nut and washer, then the blade, then reversed the process.


    The times were:


    Ridgid: .......Bosch:
    1:35 ............1:06
    1:23 ............1:05
    1:17 ..............:56
    1:31 ..............:57
    1:07 ..............:58
    1:03 ..............:54
    1:07 ..............:54
    1:12 ..............:59
    1:02 ..............:54
    ..:59.............. :41


    Ridgid Avg:.... 1:14 ............Median: 1:10

    Bosch Avg:...... :56 ............Median: ..:57


    Was this such a big deal? I thought it might be, considering the Bosch seemed so much simpler, without having to remove the guard and pawls, and the slotted insert. It really wasn't. The two 1:30+ times for the Ridgid were primarily due to a poorer flat wrench design which took a few seconds (or more!) to "find" the lock nut (Bosch's was a much more effective rosetta style / rounded 12 pt style flat wrench). A standard wrench would solve that for the Ridgid. Bosch's slower times were due to the arbor lock not immediately setting down on the flats of the arbor shaft, and having to "fiddle" with it. Also, Bosch's lock nut threaded much slower and its washer sometimes became difficult because the entire Bosch shaft has flats throughout it's length, and the washer as well has flats in its shaft slot, so a slight misalignment would slow things down considerably trying to make the washer "fit", or getting the lock nut started. The 41 sec was a perfect confluence of events. The arbor lock lever slipped right in, the washer lined up perfectily first thing, and the nut started threading right away. (The Ridgid's washer and nut went on and off lightning fast. )


    So at the end of the day, the blade changing time issue didn't really seem like a big one. :56 vs 1:14 averages (:53 vs 1:05, if you take out the first four times from each saw)? Sure, someone might look at the 41 sec best of the Bosch versus the 1:30+ worst of the Ridgid and say it took twice as long. Or, that on average the blade changes for the Ridgid took about 1/4-1/3 longer than the Bosch. But, really?!?! Is it really that significant a difference? From my perspective, each had their drawbacks, and in the end it didn't really make a huge time difference. Having an arbor lock and not having to keep track of another wrench is definitely a nice "extra" feature. But not enough of a factor by itself to sway me either way.

    Now you know the rest of the story!
    Last edited by rcxrc; 12-21-2009, 01:59 AM.
    RCx

    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
    --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

      Wow, I can't thank you enough for such a thorough, detailed comparison. I have been going back and forth trying to decide which saw to go with. I have also been searching for a comparison for quite some time, so I am very happy I found this. Once again, thank you for taking the time to post this review.

      I have been leaning toward the Ridgid myself, but the fact that non of the stores have the saw on the floor for me to try it out (they all have it lifted up on a platform with the rest of their saws) is holding me back. I have gone to Lowes to try out the Bosch, and it is definitely a quality tool. The major concerns that I had with the ridgid is that it is a "copy" of the bosch, and copies tend to be of inferior quality. From your review, it doesn't appear that that is the case, and I am glad to hear that. I have a few questions for you if you dont mind:

      Is the table really identical on the bosch and ridgid? I was under the impression that the ridgid had a larger tabletop surface than the bosch? If their tabletops are the same, then the bosch would have the larger support area if you purchase the optional left and rear outfeed supports (i thought I would have to purchase those outfeed supports to have a tabletop equal to the ridgid, but I guess it will have even more work support!)

      I have an 8" dado set, and plan to use it quite frequently. Do you think that the inconvenience associated with the ridgid (having to have a part in the up position or whatever you mentioned) is a big drawback? It kind of worries me that I may forget to leave that part unlocked and have detrimental results...

      and finally, I noticed that the ridgid uses some sort of mounted tape measure for its measurements, while the bosch's measurements are nicely inscribed in the metal bars- did you see that tape measure as a inconvenience? Does it ever move around or is it secured? The tape measure on the ridgid makes it look "cheap" but I have never messed with it first hand to know if its an actual drawback...

      Thanks in advance!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

        Hello again!

        The R4510 is on the display floor at the West Hills HD. I know you mentioned that you were a ways from the Sun Valley / North Hollywood & San Fernando / Foothill HD's, so I'm guessing you're more east or south than westward toward the west valley. So it's still going to be a ways just to go see it. You're sure going to spend some gas money!

        The Ridgid table is 1.25" wider (across the front) than the Bosch, although the Bosch measures a bit deeper in the other direction. So in that regard it is "bigger". I'm sure the front fence rail design of the Ridgid contributes to its huge look compared to the Bosch. But as far as actual table size, they're really pretty close. If one does the math, the Ridgid is only about 12 sq inches larger, a difference of less than 2%.

        With the left and rear outfeed supports on the Bosch, that changes dramatically (18" to the back, 12" to the left). Bosch supports are readily available, as seen here at Amazon. Although listed for the 4000, reviewers say it also fits the 4100 well, with some adjustments using washers. The reviews include a video review that is very informative. The supports sell together for around $63 shipped. With that said, some reviewers said that they still didn't have all the support they would have liked for ripping 4x8 sheets, and recommend getting a work stand, sawhorse, or feed stand with roller to support the work. For pieces smaller than a full sheet, the outfeed extensions performed well. See here at http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-TS1002-O.../dp/B00004R5S0

        As far as I've found, the TS2400LS / R4510 weren't designed for use with side or rear outfeed supports. In the manual, it states that if the work piece size is such that the stand becomes unstable, then it's probably too big for the saw and the user should use a larger, more stable saw. External stands should probably be used if you plan on frequently manhandling large, full-sheets of plywood (although as I mentioned in my post, with some work Ridgid's left side sled extension should be very good at providing a support, with some work/modified attachment. It extends out about a foot to the left, and is just a bit below the table top level). As a footnote (I'll have to check and post back here), I think I recall seeing a passing mention in the R4510 manual about a support of some kind being available. Not 100% sure. I'll get back on that. [Update: No mention in the manual of a support being available, except the external stands. added 12-10-09]

        In looking at both table saws again, the Bosch has under-the-table posts that are already threaded to accept the extensions. The Ridgid only has two similar looking posts by its back left corner, but they are not threaded, and it doesn't look like it will be that easy to adapt something to the underside of the Ridgid table without drilling through the cross members. Again, just fyi (added 12-10-09)

        You won't have any issue with the spreader / riving knife lock lever getting in the way while "locked" in the down position and "forgetting it" while using an 8" dado set because you will have to flip it into the up position to get the set in. The lever is spring loaded and holds up in the vertical position securely. I don't see it as any problem, although the manual does recommend 6" sets. Just be advised. [see comment added 12-10-09 re the Ridgid spreader/knife lock lever heigth limitation while using dados highlighted in the first post, above)

        The tape doesn't really seem like a problem, although many have expressed similar concerns as yours. It is a simple system that works fairly well. It doesn't appear to have any issue with "moving", from all that I've seen (and I've been playing with the TS2400 for a long while). I've yet to find any real issues with it, its use or accuracy.

        The Ridgid tape rolls out as the right extension is pulled out, so you use the same measuring guide (tape) throughout its range. With the Bosch, the measuring "tape" (and I think it is in fact a tape applied to the rail, not engraved) has two ranges printed on it. You use one measuring range up to 13-1/2" right of the blade (as visible in the bubble viewer), and for 13-1/2" to 25" you have to lock the fence down to the right extension at the 13.5" mark, then pull out the extension and set its width per a red metal pointer which points to another scale printed on the same tape as the first. An additional step over the Ridgid. I didn't mention this before because I viewed the two systems as simply "different", not one or the other being better or worse. Still, I can see where the review really wouldn't be "complete" without mentioning this. [added 12-10-09]

        The tape admittedly is an odd offering, versus all of the other company's measuring setup. But I actually like it because it uses the same tape and is foolproof. And replacement tapes are very simple to replace, and run about $11, plus $2 for the spring and $1 for the screw. http://www.ereplacementparts.com/ridgid-ts2400ls-table-saw-parts-c-7929_8171_8173.html [added 12-10-09]

        Regards,

        RCx
        Last edited by rcxrc; 12-12-2009, 12:47 AM.
        RCx

        "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
        --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

          thank you once again for your response. I am planing on going to pick up the saw in the next few days (finally!) I just hope that home depot won't start its home dpeot powertool sale they did a few months ago- that would suck!

          btw, did you choose the ridgid? Do you have any picture of yours?

          Thanks again!

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

            I did get the Ridgid. I do quite a fair amount of fence work, and it's great that I can do the wood 4x4's in one pass (although it won't quite do the vinyl post jacket/cover). I am working on adapting the left sled extension into a left side support. Considering whether or not to weld together something to attach to the table for rear outfeed support. I have roller support stands already, so full-sheet work isn't a problem.

            A tool sale WOULD really suck. I saw a post on a tractor related website from someone in Nova Scotia who said that Canadian HD's were having some kind of $150 off of any $500 spent on tools sale. Guess that's pretty much the same thing as getting the 15% "Friends and Family" rebate directly from Ridgid (use it!), but twice as much.

            I'll post pics soon.

            RCx
            Last edited by rcxrc; 12-10-2009, 12:50 PM.
            RCx

            "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
            --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

              You did an amazingly detailed, objective, unbiased, and thorough fact based review of these saws! So many gush "love" for their tools without really taking an objective look at alternatives....I admire that kind of loyalty in a friend, but it's so much more useful to get data driven tool information!

              Outstanding piece of work.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                Hi: I'm in the market for a table saw. I would use it mostly for part-time, hobby, i.e. furniture, clocks, etc., more fine detailed type stuff as opposed to construction. I've looked at both these saws several times and although I know that a contractor's or cabinet saw is a better choice I'm leaning toward one of these saws due to cost, size, etc.. I'm thinking I would build some sort of cabinet to mount the saw on so that I could maybe have some hinged or flip-up type table extensions when I need to rip something big and then put them down when not in use. In your opinion, do you think these saws would be good enough for someone like me and my needs? Most of the reviews that I've read say that these two saws would more than serve my needs. Thanks for your opinion. George

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                  Thanks, Hewood. My friends tell me I have Aspergers's Syndrome (high functioning autistic with a penchant for crunching numbers), and only half-jokingly. You kinda have to be to be in this business / hobby. Appreciate the comment.

                  I have made minor updates to all of my posts, fyi:

                  In post #1 (and already referenced in post #3), I added a comment regarding the Ridgid's slight dado heighth limitation due to the lock lever touching the bottom of the insert when the dado blade is being raised and the lever is in the up position.

                  In post #2, because of the comment above being added, I had to move the bevel and height adjustment section to this post (ran out of room, due to space limit).

                  In post #3, added comment regarding lack of availability of side or outfeed extensions for Ridgid and the manual's recommendation to use external support stands. Also added measuring tape system comparison.

                  To gtmeade: your question goes to the heart of why there exists the portable / collapsible saws and the fixed base "contractor" versions (with typically more stable bases, larger table tops/extensions, and larger upgraded fences).

                  If you are a contractor with a small crew, and have a tommy lift or trailer, and plenty of storage space, who perhaps doesn't mind walking back and forth from the front driveway/rear porch/garage where the saw will have to be, then there is no reason you wouldn't benefit from a fixed-base, cabinet-style (albeit with a roller base, and probably belt drive) contractor saw. It's simply a larger, more stable work surface that offers many more possibilities (use of regular, full-sized accessories, etc). With all that, most quality cabinet makers and other carpenters are going to do their best work in the shop on a cabinet saw (if they're not using pre-fab / custom ordered), bring it all to the site, and use the portable/contractor saw to cut the cleats / hanging rails (if that method is used), rip filler strips, or other supports (using cabinets as an example) as they go, if they can't simply use a miter saw.

                  For someone who is working inside a house and wants their saw next to them (and who needs to get it in the front or back door), or like me prefers it next to me while decking/fencing (which is mostly rough-in work), who doesn't have a lift or trailer and needs something they can lift alone (like me), or who is massively garage or storage space challenged (again like me in my present situation), or who can't justify the space taken by a contractor / cabinet considering how much they're going to use it, then the portable contractor saw is the better choice. This niche of saws has grown by leaps and bounds that have resulted in saws a little more closely resembling their cabinet lineage brethren. I think this reflects that manufacturers are paying attention to the needs of construction pro's, DIY'rs and hobbyists alike. This is clearly where the market is headed, and it benefits all of us.

                  FYI, the cost difference isn't as much as you think, for the portables or entry level contractor's saws. For the really nice cabinet saws, yes, you could spend thousands. Worst case you might lose a little if you have to resell a portable because it doesn't meet your needs. There is always a market for them.

                  Regards again,

                  RCx

                  P.S. Here's mine. Note that I was simply testing out my Incra 1000SE on the table for fit, NOT trying to use the Miter Gauge and Fence at the same time. Note also that I am one of those that falls into the "space challenged" category (courtesy of smaller digs, courtesy of a divorce).



                  Last edited by rcxrc; 04-10-2010, 07:00 PM.
                  RCx

                  "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
                  --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                    This is the kind of review I’ve been looking for. Great job !

                    I recently purchased the Bosch 4100 and am now having second thoughts. The first problem I noticed was that my miter cuts were not coming out square. I finally figured out this was due mainly to the slop in the miter slot. I suppose a sled would remedy this and would prove much more accurate. Now I’m experiencing a problem with the fence. For one thing, it “chatters” quite a bit when moving across the table and is not smooth, but more seriously it can be locked down with misalignment from the front to the rear; angling out towards the rear. I’m hoping this is just an adjustment issue. I will take a look tomorrow.

                    I took a look at the Rigid TS2044ls at HD today and I must say the fence is much smoother in it’s’ operation and more substantial feeling. Even the miter gauge felt a little more stable. I have some concerns, however, that maybe you could address:

                    - In your estimation, is the fit and finish up to par with the Bosch ?
                    - I heard Rigid uses plastic gears for blade tilt/raise. If so, is this any kind of issue ?
                    - The blade guard seems a bit more clunky than the Bosch split guard. Any issues with that ?

                    Just a note: I measured distance between front table edge to blade and the Rigid has 2” more, which makes a difference for cutting larger pieces. Advantage Rigid. The one thing that does bother me though is lack of extension tables for the Rigid.

                    I thougt I purchased a great table saw in the Bosch, but now I’m really up in the air. I just hope Lowes will take it back if that’s what it comes to. Thanks for any input you may have.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                      The "slop" in the Miter slots isn't uncommon in lower end TS's, or even some other "higher end" ones either. "Standard size" doesn't always mean the same size (go figure).

                      Options for tightening the slot up include UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight) tape http://www.ttrackusa.com/UHMW.htm / http://www.ptreeusa.com/uhmwproducts.htm to fill the gap, using a metal punch to peen / dimple the sides of the miter gauge bar slightly (which pushes the metal out slightly from the indentation, filling the gap a little), and grinding / machining a slot and tapping a screw hole at the front end (bottom side) of the bar for another (metal or plastic) washer to match up with the built-in one at the front to reduce the slop. Or buy an aftermarket miter gauge that has built-in miter slot adjustment options (like Kreg's, etc).

                      As you said, a commercially bought miter gauge or sled (typically with its own built-in slot adjustment options, like the Kreg), or your own (again, with some store bought adjustment options for the bar) are another way to go.

                      I don't think the "chatter" while moving the Bosch fence is an adjustment issue. That's just the way it moves. The fence is quite adjustable, and the manual explains this pretty well.

                      - In your estimation, is the fit and finish up to par with the Bosch ?


                      How do I say this without offending any Ridgid die-hards here (I mean, this IS the Ridgid Forums.....)? I do not think the "fit and finish" of the Ridgid is quite up to the Bosch's. I still think there is a slightly noticeable difference between mfg done in China (Ridgid) versus Taiwan (Bosch). With that said, China has come a long way, and it is very close. Conversely, with that said (again), I didn't buy my saw based on "fit and finish" as much as features that were more important to me, and the functionality of the tool. I think the engineering of the Bosch is more refined, but for this purpose it may just be a little "overbuilt" in some regards, and in ways I personally don't think I should be too concerned about.

                      For example, the Bosch sled is fairly solid, and has "positive locking" pins, etc, etc. The Ridgid, though, is functionally similar and sufficient for my needs. Unless I'm expecting the saw and stand to tumble down a hill, I think I've got a few more things to be concerned about if that happens then the sled collapsing.

                      "Refinement" versus "strength", or "functionality" can mean different things to different people. I prefer the stronger "feel" of the Ridgid fence, the simplicity of its sled, the ease of use of its ruler, its positive locking lift and bevel adjustments, its lower height, and the 3 1/2" cut capacity. Someone else could just as easily find the strengths of the Bosch to fit their needs just as well.

                      - I heard Rigid uses plastic gears for blade tilt/raise. If so, is this any kind of issue ?


                      They are plastic. In this day and age of space age polymers, I'm not as concerned as I once was regarding the use of plastics. With that said, none of the gears I see in the Ridgid appears to be made of any of the aforementioned "space age polymers". I don't know if anyone is making this level of saw with metal gears anymore. If I'm not mistaken, the Bosch gears (which I also looked at) are plastic too. (I'll double check on that).

                      - The blade guard seems a bit more clunky than the Bosch split guard. Any issues with that ?


                      You mentioned that you looked at at model "TS2044LS". I couldn't find that model, so I am guessing that you were in fact looking at the older TS2400LS portable table saw. The display models are still on the floors at most HD's I've visited, so I'm making an educated guess that is what you saw and are referring to. Yes, the older, TS2400LS saw's guard is a bit clunkier. The newer, R4510 I reviewed here has a split guard almost identical functionally to Bosch's, and which I found a bit easier to put on and take off.


                      It would seem you are correct. Ridgid does not advertise extension tables for their portable table saw, and only recommends using outfeed extensions / rollers. I am looking at some home-made options, though, as we speak. It would require tapping the two casting posts under the table by the blade and the two by the back left corner of the table, and perhaps drilling into the left end of the table, but I think it's very do-able. I'll post if / when I get around to putting something together. Bosch, on the other hand, does offer side and outfeed support extensions (as I mentioned in a post to this thread earlier).

                      For an intersting thread I found from earlier this year regarding benchtop (and some portable) tablesaws, and their user's opinions see http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/...-your-feedback.
                      I think you'll see there is no perfect panacea for most when it comes to benchtop / portable tablesaws. There is almost always a compromise compared to a cabinet or even a contractors saw. It is either all you really need / or have space for / or need the portability of / or can afford, etc.


                      Regards,
                      Last edited by rcxrc; 01-13-2010, 01:08 PM.
                      RCx

                      "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
                      --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                        Thanks for your input. Sounds like you've done your homework in this area.

                        I'm having a heck of a time trying to locate the R4510 at any HD in SOCAL. I'm in the Inland Empire Riverside area and none of the local HD's have heard of it, of course. If anybody has any leads anywhere, please let me know. I called Sun Valley, Pacoima, and West Hills but they say they don't have it. Thanks.

                        P.S. - In my previous post I did in fact type the model# wrong, so you were right in assuming I meant the TS2400ls. Sorry for the confusion.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                          Please see this thread in regards to finding and identifying the R4510. It isn't listed in HD's inventory system under this model number. It is still listed as the TS2400LS (with the same sku), and in most stores that is the model that is still on display. Ridgid is apparently "phasing them in" (like they did for the R2401 laminate trimmer, which replaced the R2400) without advertising it. The only way you'll know is what is printed on the box.

                          http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29033
                          Last edited by rcxrc; 01-13-2010, 08:31 PM.
                          RCx

                          "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat. ..."
                          --Theodore Roosevelt, "The Strenuous Life," April 10, 1899

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                            I did see the post you mentioned, but it sounds like the only way to find the R4510 is to drive to the store and physically find it yourself, since calling HD doesn't seem to do the trick. I have no clue where to go. That's why I was hoping someone would know where it is. I suppose if they did they would buy it anyway, so that's the delimma. I tried calling Ridgid, but they didn't know anything either. Canada has them

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Ridgid R4510 / 4510 / TS2400LS / 2400 vs Bosch 4100 / 4100-9

                              i went through hell trying to find one as well as every HD i called said they didn't have them, even after supposedly going and looking at the boxes to read the model numbers. I took rcx's advice and just went to the stores, and actually both of the stores closest to me (which I called and got confirmation that they didn't have them) did have them in stock.

                              i have a question for rcx, maybe you can help me out. I ran a few test pieces through the saw, and the wood keeps getting caught right after it passes the blade (around where the riving knife almost touches the back of the blade)... this results in some blade markings on the wood from the blade continously hitting the wood... any ideas which adjustment I should make? I was thinking the riving knife wasn't square/straight, but it is... I am dumbfounded..

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