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What is wrong with the TS3650's legs?

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  • What is wrong with the TS3650's legs?

    Hello,

    I was looking at the TS3650 in HD, and the legs seemed very weak. The whole thing shook without much effort. I noticed on the bottom of the legs there is small plastic pad about the size of a quarter -seems rather cheap to support something as heavy as this table saw...

    Is this just a poorly assembled HD table saw, or is this thing really that poorly designed?

    Keith

  • #2
    Keith
    I think your right the legs are a problem in fact it probably has kept me from buying a 3650. Where I live we have about 6 home Depots and in every one the saw shook like a hula dancer. In one store I showed the manager and they said was embarrassing and told the tool corral guy to take a look. He said he could fix it. It still shook but He asked me to check back this week which I will.
    I think the problem is the legs on the 3612 and older machines had a formed corner the legs on the 3650 are a rounded.
    Rev Ed

    Comment


    • #3
      Morning, Just wanted to comment. I've had the 3650 for several months and see no problem with the legs. I've used the saw fairly hard and have so far no complaints. I set it up as per manual,
      added folding outfeed table, and am looking into router extension to right side even with the added weight the saw is very stable. I've seen some say the saw is unstable and other users say it is fine. Since mine is fine can't say why others feel it is unstable. Alot of those on display are not assembled correctly. The displays I've seen are stuck together with alot of the hardware not tight or adjusted properly. I am happy with mine and would recommend it.
      Rick.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi there...
        I work at a Home Depot in Mass. I work in the tool corral and take my job very serious. I consider myself quite knowledgable when it comes to tools. Take my word...if this stand seems wobbly it is not Ridgid's fault. It all depends who puts the display together and whether they really care. When I have assembled any of the Ridgid stands my opinion is that they are quite well made with good materials and more of it than most. I have had no wobble problems that you speak of. I also assembled the stand that comes their new 12" laser compound miter saw and it is built very nicely without any flimsy material. There is no wobble on this stand at all and I point out the quality of materials to the customer. There happens to be a Ryobi table saw which is one of their top models standing in the same area in my tool corral and it is so wobbly that it truly is embarrassing. But the Ryobi rep has been in and out countless times and pays no attention to it. It is wobbly only because whoever put it together didn't even bother to tighten things up...anyway folks, that's my two cents worth...I think Ridgid tools are awesome...happy toolin...

        Comment


        • #5
          I read all your posts, and then when back to HD to give it a 10th look....I really would like to buy this table saw, I have a bunch of HD gift cards that I am stuck with, but no, I don't think this is an assembly problem... the metal legs seem flimsy and just don't seem well braced. But I think the biggest flaw is that all four legs are perched upon a small plastic pads at the base, so that each leg doesn't get to use the full perimeter of the leg end for support.

          I pass....

          Comment


          • #6
            As promised I went back to the HD and as promised the tool corral guy had totally tweaked the 3650.

            Here is my observations. The legs flex, i compared them to a Ryobi Bt3100 and old model Radial arm saw and the 3650 shook flexing the legs. Now will that be a problem? I don't know but it is not real impressive of a $600 machine.

            I checked the fence and in my humble opinion it is better than many Beismeyer look alikes that deflect when you push on the outboard end of the fence. Is that flex a problem? Many say no the wood is past the blade by the time it applies pressure out there. Maybe so but to me it isn't real impressive either.

            I checked the arbor and blade runout and to me it the 3650 has the most impressive arbor carriage of any contractor saw. I would say it compares to the Dewalt 746 and may be a little lighter than some of the cabinet saws.

            The elevation crank is lower on the 3650 saw cabinet than any other contractor saw making it a lot easier to turn and not hit the bottom of the table or fence rail.

            The motor is a shame. At least they could put a ridgid sticker on it or make the manufactures name larger. To me it looks like a $50 overseas copy of a real motor. However looks can be deceiving and I have no idea how it works.

            The fit and finish of the 3650 seems impressive and I like the new cast iron extensions.

            I don't like the placement of the bevel crank on the side to me it is tucked to far back and too high on the saw cabinet. However most saws aren't swing into bevel mode to very often.

            Would I buy a 3650 I don't know?? Two things I don't like. I think they cheapened the legs to much. I don't think your getting your $600 worth on them. Also I don't think a parts supply infrastructure is in place yet to poorly handle warranty work form the storied I hear. If I can be convinced that if the motor or a bearing went out in arbor I could get it the part or have it repaired under warrantee within 3 days I would probably buy one.

            My opinion of the 3650 at this point in time
            Rev Ed

            Comment


            • #7
              Rev Ed - Your summary seemed pretty unbiased to me, and I agree with most of your points. There are a couple of things I'd add to the fence analysis. The 3650's fence is one of the better non-Biese types I've seen at this price point and it does lock down tightly b/c of the front/rear locking system, but that same system allows the fence to be locked out of parallel if the proper technique is not used. The old "there's no free lunch" analogy applies here. Most of the Biese types fences can be locked down to where the deflection is less than 1/64" at the rear end of the fence, meaning that deflection at the blade is some smaller portion of that. Most of the industry appears to embrace the pros of the Biese types.

              Deflection and parallelism aside, the Biese types are typically far more ruggedly built than the Ridgid aluminum fence and rails. The fence handle and locking mechanism are plastic. A couple of good knocks to fence or the rails of the Ridgid could damage the fence. It's hard to imagine using a saw in a shop environment for a couple of decades and not have some damage occur. I'm also wondering how strong the plastic will be 20 years from now.

              Regarding the trunnions, I agree that the DC shroud and handwheel location are welcome features, however the Ridgid's trunnions are made from die cast zinc where every other major TS I can think of uses cast iron....the stronger material. This concern probably poses less of a reliability issue, but the mere selection of the weaker material concerns me.

              [ 04-05-2004, 07:23 PM: Message edited by: hewood ]

              Comment


              • #8
                Heeeeelloooo Ridgid,

                Are you reading all these posts?!?!?!

                We are not ridgid bashers...we WANT to buy your table saw. Better than having to wait 5 months to order the grizzly, site unseen --but with all the problems and general cheapness of your saw, it makes other saws look like a much better deal!

                I can't believe a company would push out such a piece of junk!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I've owned the 3650 for 4 months now. With any saw in this price range, there will be some compromises.
                  Regarding the legs, I've had very little flex in mine. I don't use it to cut 4x8 plywood (that's what the circular saw in the garage is for ).
                  The poor performance at HD likely had more to do with the improper setup or the wheels of the mobile base not completely disengaging the floor. After moving mine, I have to make sure the wheels are off the floor.
                  Also check to make sure the plastic leveling feet are in as far as possible. The leveling feet work well for me on my undulating basement floor.
                  The fence has been rock solid. Once again, I'd question the setup at the store. Some company on these posts excluded, we will spend significantly more time setting up our tools than the folks at HD take setting up the demos.
                  Overall, the 3650 is a good saw for the money. There are a few others that compare well (Griz, Jet), but as I said at the top, each has it's pros and cons. I don't think you cold go wrong any way you went.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry to beat this dead horse, but the problem isn't the legs. It's either the lack of bracing on the sides, or the attachment of the legs to the saw. The round corners have nothing to do with it. The side to side stiffness is fine because of the solid panels. Front-to-back however, there is much less stiffness. With no diagonal bracing, the stress must be carried through the leg attachment which is quite flexible. To check it out yourself, put a finger tip on the joint where the leg attaches as close to the center of the saw as possible. Then rock the saw front-to-back and you can feel how much the joint flexes. The bolt is just not well placed to transmit the bending force across the joint. Just for an experiment, I clamped 4 vise-grips over the joint as close to the inside corner of the "L" formed by the leg and saw frame as practical. The front-to-back flex was 90% eliminated.
                    The 3650 isn't going to fall over folks. But if you want to stiffen it up there are at least 2 options:
                    1. Add diagonal bracing or solid side panels of your own. The holes are already there.
                    2. Clamp the legs on better. Either 4 more bolts close to the center of the L (preferably with some thick washers made from 1/8" or better flat bar). Or, a longer, thicker bar (maybe 2" long, 1/2" thick)using the original holes and longer bolts. Or even easier, four cheap C-Clamps.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Just my .02.

                      I've been using the TS-3650 for sometime now and have absolutely zero complaints; I've found it to be, quite frankly, equal to or better than comparable models from other manufacturers. I won't include Craftsman in the comparison as their quality is but a skeleton of what it was 20 years ago.

                      Unequivocally, I can state without hesitation or reservation that Ridgid's response to any issues I've raised about any of their products has been patently outstanding. As a Network Administrator in the Computer Industry I'd like to see these manufactures respond anywhere near as quickly as has Ridgid; I'd consume far less Tums and Advil.

                      As far as the legs go...mine are rock solid and I cannot help but wonder if it was simply a matter of the way same was assembled?

                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If you have a leg flex problem, tighen it up. I make furniture with my 3650 which includes ripping full sheets of plywood. I have had no problems and I do it alone. It is not fun, but flex is not a problem.

                        As far as the forum, what do you expect. For a while the forum became a Ridgid bashing and they did not shut it down. Even though it ran off some our most knowledgable people, Dave A for one.

                        I have a Ridgid TS, jointer, ms and drill, have not needed cs. But,before I bought I contacted Ridgid repair center near me went over and talked to them. They told me when new products came in they had some lag time on parts, who dosen't. If you do not have a service center maybe you need to think twice about it. You are buying from a big box what do you expect.

                        If you want top service go to a small shop and pay the price for it.

                        My .02
                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          SCWood I'm not saying the leg flex will cause a problem, but to deny it is there is troubling.

                          I have about 6 home Depots in my area. In one I was there when the store manager told the tool corral guy to set the saw up right. I heard him and I also know the tool corral guy did exactly what the manager told him. He set the machine up as excellent as could humanly possible. Yet in all those stores if you take a hold of one corner of the 3650 saw and push it front and back the saw will flex on the legs. That is a fact.

                          It is also fact I have tried this with every other saw I have seen set up, Delta, Craftsman, Jet, Powermatic, Ryobi, HF, General, Shopfox and even an old 3612 and none of them moved. That is a fact.

                          I’m not the only one that has noticed this flex. It has been reported many times and there are even fixes offered for it. That is a fact.

                          So for you say there isn’t a flex seems odd.

                          Now is that flex going to cause a problem I don't know, but I will say, to me at least, it isn't real impressive and makes me think twice about spending $600. I would think Ridgid would rectify this immediately rather than just ignoring it.
                          Rev Ed

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            At the bottom of this post you can see what I did to stiffen the legs. It was easy and cheap. Should you have to do something like this? /shrug. It was easy and I have no problem messing with things to make them perform as I like.

                            forum pictures of leg braces

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Rev Ed
                              I did not say there was flex or not, what I said it is not a problem. I do not stand in front of my saw and see how much i can flex it. What I do is cut 4x8 sheets of ply through it and do not have a problem.
                              Is it as strong or good as a $1,000 to $2,000 saw, no. But I only paid $540 for it our a 10% sale last year.
                              I make furniture and it works great, would I rather have a Uni you bet I would.
                              Steve

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