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  • Basement rough-in

    Hello everyone,
    I am currently finishing my basement and had a question about the bathroom rough-in. I am installing a shower, toilet and sink. Please see pictures
    http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...t/DSCN0834.jpg
    http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...t/DSCN0833.jpg
    http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p...t/DSCN0835.jpg
    I will be turning the clean out as it is facing the shower in the position it's in now. The shower drain is going to be at the two pink lines, the toilet drain will be on the right where the black hose is coming out of the ground and the sink is going to be on the side of the toilet where I'am taking the picture from. Can I drain the sink across the wall to the main stack with a vent being tee off?
    Do I need seperate vents for the toilet and the shower? or can I use one vent downstream of the two? Is it allowed to have the vent turned horizontal under the concrete to direct it to the wall and then up the wall? Do I use a 3" drain for the toilet and 2" drains for the sink and shower? Should I use a P drain for the shower?
    Any anserws would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance, Mike
    Just for info.............what are the two black tubes for???
    Forgot to mention that I live in Ontario, CAN
    Last edited by mikeg; 12-12-2006, 12:44 PM.

  • #2
    Mike
    First off In the picture your drain seems to be very shallow and possibly cause you problems to hook up your toilet. From the center of your drain to finnish floor you need a minimum of 6-7 inches.

    Can I drain the sink across the wall to the main stack with a vent being tee off?
    Yes but don't.

    Do I need seperate vents for the toilet and the shower?
    Yes.

    Is it allowed to have the vent turned horizontal under the concrete to direct it to the wall and then up the wall?

    Yes. but the vent connection must be made above the horizontal center line of the drain. Meaning turn the tee wye up on a 45 degree angle and then use another 45 to turn it horizontal again and bring it up the nearest wall.

    Do I use a 3" drain for the toilet and 2" drains for the sink and shower?
    Yes.

    Should I use a P drain for the shower?
    This is not a plumbing term that i am aware of. If you are asking about a p-trap than yes.

    what are the two black tubes for???
    Yah what are they for???

    My suggestion is use the drain from the sink to vent the toilet. Drain must be two inch and connect to the toilet drain a minnimum of 18 inches from the trap. If you do this then the wet vent connection (this is what it is called) can be made on the horizontal. Then just back vent the shower on its own.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mikeg View Post
      Can I drain the sink across the wall to the main stack with a vent being tee off?
      Yes, but certain requirements must be met.
      Originally posted by mikeg View Post
      Do I need seperate vents for the toilet and the shower?
      Yes, if your plan is to tie them in seperatly to the building drain.
      Originally posted by mikeg View Post
      or can I use one vent downstream of the two?
      No, not unless they are on a seperate branch and the vent is between the two.
      Originally posted by mikeg View Post
      Is it allowed to have the vent turned horizontal under the concrete to direct it to the wall and then up the wall?
      Yes, but certain requirements must be met.
      Originally posted by mikeg View Post
      Do I use a 3" drain for the toilet and 2" drains for the sink and shower?
      Yes.
      Originally posted by mikeg View Post
      Should I use a P drain for the shower?
      A P-trap? Of course!

      Does your home currently have a sewage backflow prevention device?

      Do you have a permit and plan on getting this inspected?

      This is not a task for the "handyman" or "Do it yourselfer"

      Call in a pro! Have him/her at least do the DWV rough in for you.
      You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

      By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally Posted by mikeg
        or can I use one vent downstream of the two?

        Originally posted by hondahead
        No, not unless they are on a seperate branch and the vent is between the two.


        In Ontario you are not aloud to vent a toilet and shower together. unless you vented the shower through a continuos waste and vent and then used it as a wet vent. but that is kind of poor practice.


        Originally Posted by mikeg
        Do I use a 3" drain for the toilet and 2" drains for the sink and shower?

        The sink can 1 1/4 or if you are using abs then 1 1/2 unless you are using it as a wet vent for the toilet then the drain portion will be 2".

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
          In Ontario you are not aloud to vent a toilet and shower together unless you vented the shower through a continuos waste and vent and then used it as a wet vent.
          HUh? The definition of a continuous vent " a vent pipe that serves 2 or more fixtures and is an extension of a wet vent"

          When two fixtures share a vent you are wet venting, regardless of what fixtures they are, tub, sink, shower, or whatever. One fixture is "wet venting" and the other is "wet vented."

          Nothing in the NPC says you can't vent a WC and shower together. Can you quote this clause from your code book? Ontario follows the NPC (with regional amendments) as do all provinces in Canada.

          Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
          but that is kind of poor practice.
          Not really, installed correctly a wet vent works excellent!

          Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
          unless you are using it as a wet vent for the toilet then the drain portion will be 2".
          It can be 1 1/2" by NPC code. The max fixture unit load to a 1 1/2" wet vent is 2 fixture units. A bathroom sink with an 1 1/2" trap is 1 1/2 fixture units. Max fixture unit load to a 2" wet vent is 5. See tables 4.9.3. and 5.8.1.A.



          I hold an Alberta Journeymen Plumber ticket, a class B Gasfitter ticket, a Hydronic Heating installation and design ticket and a Interprovincial Plumber ticket (Red Seal) which licenses me to work anywhere in Canada. Right now I work as a feild supervisor in residential construction for the largest plumbing contractor in northern Alberta. I oversee an average of 600-700 housing projects per year and instruct/oversee a crew of 8 apprentices and 7 journeymen. I have worked in the trade for 20+yrs, I know my stuff and I know the code
          You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

          By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hondahead
            I am happy to hear that you are doing so well. I am not disputing the fact that you know your code. But you dont know mine. I am very interested in discussing code differences as someday i may go over to B.C or i guess anywhere else in the world.

            [QUOTE=Hondahead;63967]HUh? The definition of a continuous vent " a vent pipe that serves 2 or more fixtures and is an extension of a wet vent" A vertical continuous waste and vent is when the drain goes down and the vent goes up. In my area you are only aloud to wet vent with this type of vent. A back vent is not aloud for the wet venting fixture.



            Nothing in the NPC says you can't vent a WC and shower together. Can you quote this clause from your code book?

            Or the Ontario plumbing code. I just said that i don't think it looks very good as they are both lower fixtures.

            Ontario follows the NPC (with regional amendments) as do all provinces in Canada.
            Ontario follows the NPC with major differences. Making it almost a completly different code.



            Not really, installed correctly a wet vent works excellent!
            Agreed


            It can be 1 1/2" by NPC code. The max fixture unit load to a 1 1/2" wet vent is 2 fixture units. A bathroom sink with an 1 1/2" trap is 1 1/2 fixture units. Max fixture unit load to a 2" wet vent is 5. See tables 4.9.3. and 5.8.1.A.

            OPC
            THe drain of the wet venting fixture must be:
            1 1/4 where the wet vented trap is 1 1/4 or 1 1/2
            1 1/2 where the wet vented trap is 2"
            2" where the wet vented trap is of 3, 4, or 6" in size.

            We do not use fixture units to size or wet vents. The dry portion of the wet vent is sized like regular.
            Last edited by PLUMBER JAY; 12-14-2006, 07:58 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              The BOLDwords in the previse post is what hondahead wrote.
              Last edited by PLUMBER JAY; 12-14-2006, 08:00 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Plumber Jay

                Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
                In my area you are only aloud to wet vent with this type of vent. A back vent is not aloud for the wet venting fixture

                The drain of the wet venting fixture must be:
                1 1/4 where the wet vented trap is 1 1/4 or 1 1/2
                1 1/2 where the wet vented trap is 2"
                2" where the wet vented trap is of 3, 4, or 6" in size.

                We do not use fixture units to size or wet vents.
                hmmm.... interesting. I have worked in B.C. , Alberta and Saskachewan and only found minor code differences. I concede I don't know the Ontario amendments I am very surprised fixture units are not used to size wet vents? What about sizing of of branch vents, vent stacks, relief vents, stack vents etc... ? What about hydraulic load to soil and waste stacks, branches, building drain, building sewer etc... ? How do you size a water service or water distribution system?

                Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
                The dry portion of the wet vent is sized like regular.
                What does "like regular" mean. By using fixture unit load?

                Fixture units are the basis of all pipe sizing in the NPC.

                Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
                someday i may go over to B.C or i guess anywhere else in the world
                Do you hold a journeyman ticket? For how long? Do you have you Interprovicial Red Seal ? There is a ton of work out west. The wet coast and sunshine valley are booming but its nothing like here. Calgary and Edmonton have had the largest economic growth in Canada for the past couple years. North Saskachewan is set to boom, preliminary reports are saying the oil sands up there are larger than in Alberta

                Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
                I am very interested in discussing code differences
                I too am interested in learning more about our code differences. I look forward to it.


                MIKEG

                Sorry for hijacking your post.

                To reiterate, please call in a pro! Have him/her at least do the DWV rough in for you. If you do the "grunt work" (diggin,bustin the concrete etc...) it shouldn't cost you more than a couple hundred $$. Also, please get a permit and have the work inspected. The work needs to be done correctly as there are health issues involved, aswell as liability issues. Good Luck.
                You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

                By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=Hondahead;64046]Plumber Jay



                  hmmm.... interesting. I have worked in B.C. , Alberta and Saskachewan and only found minor code differences. I concede I don't know the Ontario amendments I am very surprised fixture units are not used to size wet vents? What about sizing of of branch vents, vent stacks, relief vents, stack vents etc... ? What about hydraulic load to soil and waste stacks, branches, building drain, building sewer etc... ? How do you size a water service or water distribution system?

                  Branch vents are not sized using fixture units either.
                  We size are branch vents off a table/chart
                  Size of trap Minimum size of vent pipe
                  1 1/4 1 1/4
                  1 1/2 1 1/4
                  2 1 1/2
                  3 1 1/2
                  4 1 1/2
                  6 2

                  Then if you are connecting branch vents together we have another chart saying how many vents are aloud on each size.
                  Vent stacks are sized through fixture units/gpm
                  Stack vents are sized acourding to the chart above except 1 stack must be a minimum of 3" throughout.

                  Fixture units are used to size our soil and waste stack, branches building drains and building sewers.


                  It is kind of crazy but our code does not have any ways of sizing our water disturbution systems. Other than in a home it has to be 3/4" until the first tee. The sizes for our water lines are generally on the prints. But sometimes the engineers don't size certain area and we are left guessing at what size is required. probably oversizing just to be safe which in reality isn't good on the hot side.

                  How do you size your water lines.


                  Do you hold a journeyman ticket? For how long? Do you have you Interprovicial Red Seal ?

                  I am not licensed yet just a 5 year apprentice.


                  There is a ton of work out west. The wet coast and sunshine valley are booming but its nothing like here. Calgary and Edmonton have had the largest economic growth in Canada for the past couple years. North Saskachewan is set to boom, preliminary reports are saying the oil sands up there are larger than in Alberta


                  That is what i have been hearing. The company i work for is (from what i have heard) Is bidding on building homes for workers in fort mcmurry. Built here transported there. So if you see some homes out there plumbed totally wrong they probably came from ontario.
                  Last edited by PLUMBER JAY; 12-19-2006, 06:57 PM. Reason: because i can't figure out how to qoute properly

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
                    How do you size your water lines?
                    The water service is sized by the total number of cold water fixture units as determined from tables 6.3 and 6.3.2 , the total developed length from property line/public water main/source to the most remote outlet, difference in elevation from source to highest outlet and supply pressure. Using this information and table A-6.1. will determine the water service size. To size the distribution pipes you start at the most remote outlet and work back toward the water service or water heater(for hot lines) using the total developed length and adding fixture unit values from tables 6.3 and 6.3.2. as you go. Much like gasline sizing.

                    With the NPC you are the engineer when it comes to pipe sizing!


                    Originally posted by PLUMBER JAY View Post
                    The company i work for is (from what i have heard) Is bidding on building homes for workers in fort mcmurry. Built here transported there. So if you see some homes out there plumbed totally wrong they probably came from ontario.
                    Yah the growth in Fort mac is crazy. Starter homes up there are going for 300-400K
                    You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

                    By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

                    Comment

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