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Ugh! compression fittings!!!

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  • Ugh! compression fittings!!!

    I'll try to be brief yet concise....
    As a good brother-in-law I went to replace my Sister-in-law's very old kitchen faucet.
    I expected a battle in removing the thing, but the bolts and washers were so rusted out a couple of precision whacks and the thing came loose.

    The shut off valves were awful! They are also cheap cookie cutter house plumbing valves with compression fittings and the valves were plastic! The valve levers were impossible to rotate!

    I went and replaced them with 1/4 turn ball valve styles. I also had to replace the water lines as the original were flexible copper part of the old valves and again in awful shape. I chose the stainless type flexible water lines, about 16 inches long.

    After cleaning the area for the new faucet, I installed a really nice Price Pfister faucet. Yes I even used plumber's putty for the cover plate.

    All connections are new except for the original compression rings and nuts on the copper supply lines..I chose not to cut them off as there is very little length between them and the wall. By the way, I think they neglected to secure the pipes as they slip in and out of the wall!

    Oh, I never saw this either..Where you would normally see a spray hose..she has a cover about 3-4 inches tall covered in chrome. It is connected to the dishwasher and disposal and acts as a shock absorber to eliminate water hammer!!!! or it's a vacuum breaker of sorts

    I assembled the new stuff and at 6'4" it's tight under the sink ha ha.
    The hot water connection from the supply pipe to the shut off valve seems to be tight but a drip or two occur.
    I even put Teflon tape on the threads and re installed it a few times to ensure I did not do anything wrong.
    The copper pipe and the compression ring look ok and nothing is cross threaded...
    Finally my question...

    Other than grabbing the tiny tubing cutter and removing the old compression ring and putting a new one on, is there any secret remedy?
    I though about wrapping the back of the nut with some packing or slipping an "O" ring in front of the compression fitting or even putting a few wraps of Teflon tape around the compression fitting and exposed copper to make the fit snug....

    The leak seems to be coming from the leading edge of the compression nut where it screws onto the new shut off valve..not the back and of it.

    The end result is a very nice really expensive faucet, a happy Sister-in-law
    [which as we all know is critical ha ha]
    and a total of about 2 hours from arriving, going to get the materials, removal, installation and of course small talk.

    Any advice???

    Thanks,
    Cactus Man

    p.s. the hot and cold water lines to the original faucet were reversed since the house was built around 1985-1988. My Sister-in-law just accepted it! Today she has the hot on the left and the cold on the right.
    Last edited by cactusman; 01-06-2007, 04:34 PM. Reason: replaced incorrect word Cold" instead of "right"

  • #2
    Cactus Man: "Today she has the hot on the left and the right on the right". Don"t most people have the RIGHT on the right? Seriously, if it is just a drip or two, put a bucket under it for a day or two--odds are it will seal itself. Otherwise, I'm sure Plumber or the Dog or one of the fine plumbers on this board will help you out. Jim

    P.S. You did a fine job in giving us nice weather for our Az. visit.

    Comment


    • #3
      Compression fittings aren't supposed to be reused - once the compression fitting is made, usually that's that. You can use a compression sleeve puller to remove the old sleeve from the copper pipe so you don't have to cut the pipe too short. Usually if the copper pipe is not too deformed from over tightening the old fitting, you can make a good seal with the new compression fitting.
      Better yet, once you remove the old sleeve, sweat on a treaded adapter and you can fit a 1/2" pipe angle stop...
      Last edited by Newman; 12-31-2006, 08:30 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        thanks!

        Pipestone kid, I corrected the wrong word ...thank you Now right is "cold".

        Newman, I have never heard of a compression fitting removing tool.

        Please tell me where can I see one.

        I suppose if I'm really careful I can use a fine tooth hacksaw blade to cut it.

        regards,

        Cactus Man

        Comment


        • #5
          http://www.azpartsmaster.com/shopazp...3075%29%2Ehtml

          http://www.superiortool.com/cutter-03875.htm

          I've pulled off rings 100's of times with similar tool...

          Comment


          • #6
            "...or it's a vacuum breaker of sorts..."

            Yes, it's most likely a deck-mounted air gap fitting on the dishwasher drain line. This is to prevent backflow of effluent through a clogged drain. On the water supply an AVB (Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker) should be installed or some other (as required and approved by your local plumbing code) means used to protect the domestic water supply.
            "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

            https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cactusman View Post
              Pipestone kid, I corrected the wrong word ...thank you Now right is "cold".

              Newman, I have never heard of a compression fitting removing tool.

              Please tell me where can I see one.

              I suppose if I'm really careful I can use a fine tooth hacksaw blade to cut it.

              regards,

              Cactus Man

              Reusing compression sleeves can be some what problematic at times. It seems people often under estimate compression angle stops. They seem to either over tighten them or not tighten them enough. Either way it is always a good policy to replace the nut and sleeve when replacing the stop.

              The compression sleeve pullers are hard to find but here is an Amazon link which shows a few options.

              http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_hi/105-4803839-5698017?url=search-alias%3Dtools&field-keywords=compression+sleeve+puller&Go.x=12&Go.y=14

              Mark
              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                "...or it's a vacuum breaker of sorts..."

                Yes, it's most likely a deck-mounted air gap fitting on the dishwasher drain line. This is to prevent backflow of effluent through a clogged drain. On the water supply an AVB (Atmospheric Vacuum Breaker) should be installed or some other (as required and approved by your local plumbing code) means used to protect the domestic water supply.
                Actually a dishwasher air gap is only meant to prevent dirty water from getting back into the dishwasher from the sink. The air gap to protect the domestic water supply is the distance between the flood rim of the sink and the bottom of the faucet spout (min. 1")

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Have any of you ever tried using "Swagelok" fittings? While rather costly for basic water plumbing use, if properly installed and tightened, they can be taken apart and then retightened several times with an air tight seal. Think of them as super grade compression fittings in a way. Caution: Be careful or you'll end up with some exotic alloy stainless steel high pressure fittings that will blow you away in cost. They do have some in brass that aren't too bad in price.

                  www.swagelok.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think we are saying the same thing in different words Mark.

                    The deck-mounted air gap fitting protects against waste water flowing back into the dishwasher due to a clogged drain in the sink to which it (the dishwasher) drains.

                    I was not saying an air gap could or should be used on the water supply. To correct myself an AVB would not be a correct application on the supply side of the dishwasher as it would be subjected to constant pressure and that is not allowed for AVBs (12 hour limit), it should be a PVB or better if backflow protection is used on the water supply.
                    "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                    https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Swagelok fittings would be overkill for this type of service.
                      And a right-angle Whitey ball valve with compression ends would be very expensive compared to the normally used angle stops.

                      Parker has a line they claim is fully compatible with Swagelok, even to the point of being able to interchange and/or mix fittings, ferrules and nuts, but Swagelok does not allow this (voids their warranty) and the instructions that come with Swagelok fittings caution against doing so. Consequently in most facilities where I have worked mixing of the two is not allowed. Where I am now we don't even stock Parker other than a very few fittings to make transitions from components we receive that come through with Parker fittings installed. Sometime the Parker stuff will be stripped out and all Swagelok put back in its place just to ensure no one mixes them in the future by accident or otherwise. In Swagelok we have just about every fitting they make in our stockroom in both brass and stainless from 1/4" to 1" OD, and some 1/8" stuff.
                      "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                      https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                        I think we are saying the same thing in different words Mark.

                        The deck-mounted air gap fitting protects against waste water flowing back into the dishwasher due to a clogged drain in the sink to which it (the dishwasher) drains.

                        I was not saying an air gap could or should be used on the water supply. To correct myself an AVB would not be a correct application on the supply side of the dishwasher as it would be subjected to constant pressure and that is not allowed for AVBs (12 hour limit), it should be a PVB or better if backflow protection is used on the water supply.
                        By the way the jurisdictions which are using the International Plumbing Code do not even require a dishwasher vacuum breaker.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It's too bad the merger of the different codes could not occur last year for whatever the reason was. I read one version of the sometimes stormy history of the two organizations and why it fell through this time in a trade publication a couple weeks ago, don't know if I still have the article around here or not.

                          Here in NJ we are still using the NSPC as published by the NAPHCC. When contractors from out of state come to work here they are used to their local codes, and this always leads to problems down the road and an extra effort to ensure that the locally adopted code is not unintentionally infracted by the design team or contractors.
                          "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                          https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "By the way the jurisdictions which are using the International Plumbing Code do not even require a dishwasher vacuum breaker."

                            NSPC (only used in a few [3 if IIRC] states) is worded thus:

                            "7.15.2 Residential Sink and Dishwasher
                            The discharge from a residential sink and dishwasher may discharge through a single 1-1/2" trap. The discharge line form the dishwasher shall be not less than 3/4" nominal size and shall either be looped up and securely fastened to the underside of the counter or be connected to a deck-mounted dishwasher air gap fitting. The discharge shall then be connected to a wye fitting between the sink waste outlet and the trap inlet."

                            "It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?" Bob D. 2006

                            https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerToolInstitute

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Self healing fitting

                              I want to thank you all for the rapid helpful replies, especially on New Year's eve and day!
                              My Sister-in-law- called this morning and indicated "no drips"
                              So, I guess the comment about the possibility of the fitting self healing is a fact. I now know that should I ever dive into another sink repair, that it's ok and the right thing to remove the old compression sleeve and nut, then install a new one. It is also not as traumatic a task as I envisioned.

                              I looked at the compression sleeve removal tool and it's pretty slick [clever]. Since I tend to collect tools I'll have one in my tool box shortly..
                              I am a serious fan of the right tool for the right job.
                              I do notice a few different styles. I am sort of leaning towards the Pasco puller. Is any style better than the other?

                              Cactus Man

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