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  • #16
    Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

    Ok, I will concede you …fella’s are experts in your field, that obvious
    from your personnel info.
    I like the 60psi figure alot better than the 150psi figure especially if
    it’s a leak down test.
    I have however have been in the pump industry for over 30 years
    We hydro test every day. We banned testing with air about 25 years
    ago except in special cases and limit those special cases to 25 psi and
    that’s with the proper PPE and safety precautions.
    My main concern is safety, I have personally seen a lot of freaky things happen back when we did test with air and still now with water for that matter …I’ve seen pipe joints and flanges pop spewing chards of metal, I’ve seen pipe plugs blow and chunks of cast iron fly 20 to 30 foot at tremendous force at lower pressures than 60psi.

    You must concede that testing with air can be very hazardous and certain precautions must be taken before you put your face up to a joint being tested with air and especially with any kind of tank or anything with volume.

    Now that being said, do you test plastic water pipe joints with air and is it true it
    is not to be tested any higher than 9psi?

    No disrespect Intended.. Dave
    Last edited by Davet; 02-27-2007, 05:53 AM.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

      Originally posted by Davet View Post
      Ok, I will concede you …fella’s are experts in your field, that obvious
      from your personnel info.
      I like the 60psi figure alot better than the 150psi figure especially if
      it’s a leak down test.
      I have however have been in the pump industry for over 30 years
      We hydro test every day. We banned testing with air about 25 years
      ago except in special cases and limit those special cases to 25 psi and
      that’s with the proper PPE and safety precautions.
      My main concern is safety, I have personally seen a lot of freaky things happen back when we did test with air and still now with water for that matter …I’ve seen pipe joints and flanges pop spewing chards of metal, I’ve seen pipe plugs blow and chunks of cast iron fly 20 to 30 foot at tremendous force at lower pressures than 60psi.

      You must concede that testing with air can be very hazardous and certain precautions must be taken before you put your face up to a joint being tested with air and especially with any kind of tank or anything with volume.

      Now that being said, do you test plastic water pipe joints with air and is it true it
      is not to be tested any higher than 9psi?

      No disrespect Intended.. Dave
      Plasic pipe of any type should not be tested with air.

      What type of pipe did you have burst at less than 60psi?


      ps. Rick, I know the feeling. There is many a post I've deleted myself.
      the dog

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

        the post that i deleted was based on an air test and the fact that air compresses and water doesn't.

        i will give you the short of it.

        in a closed system, pipes or tank. water that is pressurized to 60# is pretty safe if it blows. the water will lose its pressure, force as once a small amout is lost, it will have 0# of pressure.

        same sample this time with air. the air will still be under pressure until all the air is out.

        air testing of plumbing is not super common, but an accepted practice. air testing of gas piping is 100% required. the real safety issue comes when the person goes to remove the test gauge or cap. the compressed air will escape under great force and can expell anything that is inside the pipe like a bullet. such as shavings from reaming.

        when an oxygen, scuba, or any other pressure vessel is tested on a 5 year intervel. they hydro test it for safety. meaning they will pressurize it with water to the pressure required for the test. usually 3000# and above. as the tank comes up to pressure it will swell and if it splits, you get wet, but not killed if this was done with air and it splits you get killed

        a fire extinguisher filled with water is useless. a fire extinguisher filled 3/4 with water and 1/4 with air, is a fire extinguisher. the air expands and pushes out the water under pressure.

        this was the short responce

        glad we all understand. compressed air can be dangerous, but it is necessary in the work that us plumbers do.

        rick.

        thanks dog
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

          Actually air testing has become more common in large commercial jobs due to:

          1) Water meters now being installed towards the end of the project. It becomes time consuming to fill, say, a 4" copper system up to pressure with 300' of water hose connected to a temp hosebib.

          2) Less mess if you have a leak.

          3) Easier fix if you have a leak.


          The disadvantage is that small leaks, such as the packing on a ball valve, are sometimes difficult to find.

          One problem I've seen with water testing with a gauge is that the system needs to be bleed of air. If not the air will continue to compress and give a reading of pressure loss over time. In some cases bleading all the branches can be time consuming.

          All this discussion is more a result of the crap fluxes we are forced to use. Back in me and Rick's youth, we used to fire up the system with line pressure, visually inspect it after a few hours, and if there was no water on the floor the system was good for the next 75 years.

          Now days testing is critical because I've seen joints hold during a test, only to spring a leak days or weeks later.

          Sorry to be rambling, but I'm rained out today, and bored.

          In short, I agree with Rick's post above.
          the dog

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

            Originally posted by buoychaser View Post
            I've tried to find a gauge to test my 3/4" copper pipe and soldered joints for air leaks, but I can't seem to find a "Dry Test Kit" as they are called in the UK anywhere here in the US? I've been to two Home Depots, Lowe's and True Value and no luck.

            I've been told I can make one, but it would be nice not having to Solder on the gauge everytime. They appear to come with a SCHRADER VALVE to hookup a compressor or an air pump.

            I've been told the pipes need to withstand 10-13psi for 24hrs. PLEASE HELP, before I call up my local Wholesale Plumbing Supply Place.

            Is there a name for this gauge?


            See and I thought he was testing water lines I didn't know it was boiler lines,and I just wont get in to the hole gauge thing.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

              Originally posted by Davet View Post
              Ok, I will concede you …fella’s are experts in your field, that obvious
              from your personnel info.
              I like the 60psi figure alot better than the 150psi figure especially if
              it’s a leak down test.
              I have however have been in the pump industry for over 30 years
              We hydro test every day. We banned testing with air about 25 years
              ago except in special cases and limit those special cases to 25 psi and
              that’s with the proper PPE and safety precautions.
              My main concern is safety, I have personally seen a lot of freaky things happen back when we did test with air and still now with water for that matter …I’ve seen pipe joints and flanges pop spewing chards of metal, I’ve seen pipe plugs blow and chunks of cast iron fly 20 to 30 foot at tremendous force at lower pressures than 60psi.

              You must concede that testing with air can be very hazardous and certain precautions must be taken before you put your face up to a joint being tested with air and especially with any kind of tank or anything with volume.

              Now that being said, do you test plastic water pipe joints with air and is it true it
              is not to be tested any higher than 9psi?

              No disrespect Intended.. Dave
              I'm still wondering what flanges exploded under 60 psi?
              the dog

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                Dave,

                Again I'm asking: what flanges and pipe did you explode with less than 60 psi?

                I don't see it, and think you were talking our of your ***.
                the dog

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                  Davet,

                  I've been (tattood) a few times by not paying attention around as low as 20 psi.

                  Were you in reaserch and design.


                  How was your day plumdog.
                  Last edited by drtyhands; 03-01-2007, 12:21 AM. Reason: deletion

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                    Thanks Rick,

                    Off to find out,I hope the person involved is not who I think it is,He really added to the forum.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                      thank,s dirtyhands

                      there was once a member here "plumber" from chicago very sharp and very active. he posted a topic about electricuting moles that were chewing up his new lawn. the only thing that got chewed up was plumber, by the electricians that came down on him. has only been back once.

                      look up his profile to read the whole thing. "plumber"

                      thank's for deleting the subject. got to look out for the new ones

                      rick.
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                        PlumberRick,

                        I am truely sorry to read this,I read his twilight post.

                        GOOD PERSON.

                        It's not hard to see why he is sooo missed by so many.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                          Sorry it took so long for a reply, we had a 1500hp/1200rpm test motor
                          destroyed when testing a very expensive pump , It dog boned a 2-11/16”
                          dia 416 stainless shaft , wiped out all my test parts and fubar’ed
                          the pump, been real busy trying to get everything back on line, re-made
                          and shipped by the end of the month. I have pictures if anyone would like
                          to see the damage.

                          Never seen a pipe burst under water or air pressure.
                          One of a few incidents that I was involved with air was a 3” #150 class
                          steel flange, the weld popped under air pressure. no one was hurt. actually
                          that happened more than once.
                          It did spew metal chards when it gave way. similar to what plumber rick mentioned .
                          We had a hydro tester get in a hurry and got the bright idea he could
                          remove a ¼” pipe plug when the part was being vented after the test
                          ….never did find the plug.
                          It was within a month that a local tire place had a split rim come apart and
                          killed a young fella. and within that year a capped sewer line popped its
                          cover and killed two men in Baltimore. It blew at 30psi it was being air
                          pressured tested for some reason. That’s when our company banned
                          air pressure testing.

                          The worst case I remember was as plumber rick explained in one of his
                          posts about scuba tanks. It was with water and compressed air.
                          We were taking the pressure up to 1-½ pump shut of pressure, which if I
                          remember correctly was about 300 psi with a 30 minute hold time.. We did
                          not the have the air completely out of the 12” heavy wall cast bowls, the
                          air compressed in one of the cavities in the bowl. .Well it wasn’t long we
                          heard a crack pop, water spayed and there was a fist size hole
                          in the upper side of the bowl.
                          That chunk of cast bowl traveled a good 30’ at an upward angle, you could
                          hear it when it bounced of our 25 ton overhead crane bridge it left a hell of
                          a mark on the metal. The water pressure was at about 40psi when it blew.

                          Snip from plumbdog10
                          “Again I'm asking: what flanges and pipe did you explode with less than 60 psi?
                          I don't see it, and think you were talking our of your ***.”

                          Well ..dog… I’m sorry you have that opinion. You know what they say ……
                          Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one and they usually
                          all stink.

                          You may find as I did at 50+, I could care less if someone
                          does not believe you, either they do or they don’t.

                          Drtyhands: I started in the pump Industry when I just turned 18 sweeping
                          floors. Been in the same place for over 30 years . These are industrial
                          pumps ranging from 300gpm to the big boys pumping 50,000 gpm.+…
                          Pumping pressures anywhere from 30 psi to 1200 psi … Pipe sizes from
                          2-½” to 48” ...voltages from 280V to 6600volt....
                          Horsepowers from 5 hp to 2500 hp and a few diesel motors as well.
                          Very Interesting work to say the least.
                          I have worked in just about every dept ..from pulling wrenches both on
                          test stand and in assembly.shipping you name it, I ended up engineering
                          test parts and doing engineering work to make the pumps do what they
                          need to do to the customers specifications.

                          The pump industry has treated me well and I consider myself

                          blessed.

                          Sorry to bore you all, I will bow out now, be well, be safe…. If not for you,
                          for your family.

                          we'll keep makin em, you keep piping em, That's said with respect!

                          I'm tired now, It's time for bed, been a rough week fellas. good night.

                          Dave
                          Last edited by Davet; 03-01-2007, 07:17 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                            "excellent"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                              Originally posted by Davet View Post
                              Sorry it took so long for a reply, we had a 1500hp/1200rpm test motor
                              destroyed when testing a very expensive pump , It dog boned a 2-11/16”
                              dia 416 stainless shaft , wiped out all my test parts and fubar’ed
                              the pump, been real busy trying to get everything back on line, re-made
                              and shipped by the end of the month. I have pictures if anyone would like
                              to see the damage.

                              Never seen a pipe burst under water or air pressure.
                              One of a few incidents that I was involved with air was a 3” #150 class
                              steel flange, the weld popped under air pressure. no one was hurt. actually
                              that happened more than once.
                              It did spew metal chards when it gave way. similar to what plumber rick mentioned .
                              We had a hydro tester get in a hurry and got the bright idea he could
                              remove a ¼” pipe plug when the part was being vented after the test
                              ….never did find the plug.
                              It was within a month that a local tire place had a split rim come apart and
                              killed a young fella. and within that year a capped sewer line popped its
                              cover and killed two men in Baltimore. It blew at 30psi it was being air
                              pressured tested for some reason. That’s when our company banned
                              air pressure testing.

                              The worst case I remember was as plumber rick explained in one of his
                              posts about scuba tanks. It was with water and compressed air.
                              We were taking the pressure up to 1-½ pump shut of pressure, which if I
                              remember correctly was about 300 psi with a 30 minute hold time.. We did
                              not the have the air completely out of the 12” heavy wall cast bowls, the
                              air compressed in one of the cavities in the bowl. .Well it wasn’t long we
                              heard a crack pop, water spayed and there was a fist size hole
                              in the upper side of the bowl.
                              That chunk of cast bowl traveled a good 30’ at an upward angle, you could
                              hear it when it bounced of our 25 ton overhead crane bridge it left a hell of
                              a mark on the metal. The water pressure was at about 40psi when it blew.

                              Snip from plumbdog10
                              “Again I'm asking: what flanges and pipe did you explode with less than 60 psi?
                              I don't see it, and think you were talking our of your ***.”

                              Well ..dog… I’m sorry you have that opinion. You know what they say ……
                              Opinions are like ***holes, everyone has one and they usually
                              all stink.

                              You may find as I did at 50+, I could care less if someone
                              does not believe you, either they do or they don’t.

                              Drtyhands: I started in the pump Industry when I just turned 18 sweeping
                              floors. Been in the same place for over 30 years . These are industrial
                              pumps ranging from 300gpm to the big boys pumping 50,000 gpm.+…
                              Pumping pressures anywhere from 30 psi to 1200 psi … Pipe sizes from
                              2-½” to 48” ...voltages from 280V to 6600volt....
                              Horsepowers from 5 hp to 2500 hp and a few diesel motors as well.
                              Very Interesting work to say the least.
                              I have worked in just about every dept ..from pulling wrenches both on
                              test stand and in assembly.shipping you name it, I ended up engineering
                              test parts and doing engineering work to make the pumps do what they
                              need to do to the customers specifications.

                              The pump industry has treated me well and I consider myself

                              blessed.

                              Sorry to bore you all, I will bow out now, be well, be safe…. If not for you,
                              for your family.

                              we'll keep makin em, you keep piping em, That's said with respect!

                              I'm tired now, It's time for bed, been a rough week fellas. good night.

                              Dave
                              So are you saying that an ASME 150# flange, welded by a certified welder, exploded under less then 60psi? If you are a pump manufacturer, you would have the data. Bring it on because I'm not buying it.
                              the dog

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Testing 3/4" Copper Pipe for Leaks - Dry Test Kit

                                According to your original post you have seen "chards of metal flying" from pipe joints and flanges from tests less then 60psi. Has the story changed? Maybe the pumps you produce can't take standard pressures.
                                the dog

                                Comment

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