Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
Inserts For Threaded Rod? Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Inserts For Threaded Rod?

    Could you guys give me a hand on this.

    There is a plumbing contractor who I have done work for in the past that has asked me for help.His expertice is in production single family homes.He asked me to go down and give his foreman a hand canning out the first floor of a subterranian appartment building in L.A.Which his entire company,including himself,has extremely limited abilities in low level commercial plumbing.

    My experience ends at improving these existing subteranian parking structures.

    I am confident in my ability to get the floor canned.But what I am unfamiiliar with are the inserts or otherwise named device that one installs before the first floor is poured so we can hang garage piping.

    I understand UPC code on hangers and supports (need to get L.A.ammendments).

    Being that the first thing the supernintendo is going ask me before I even get out of my truck on the first day is "how long is this going to take.".

    I know what many of bolder and more experienced friends here would say before the guy would even be able to draw his breath.But I don't know how to network with the concrete and steel trades under these conditions.How much, if any time is allowed for us to snap,can and pin the plywood before we are in the way of others.

    There is no better place on the planet that I am more comfotable asking these questions than here on this forum.Thank you for this confidence.

    I will be more than willing to answer ANY questions ANY kind

  • #2
    Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

    drtyhands,

    You would need cast in place anchors. Several manufactures marke them for wood or metal forms. See the Hilti website for an illustration.

    The place for you to start, however, is with the drawings. Check the plumbing details page AND the structural details pages for any specified anchors or anchoring systems.

    As far as time, that would depend on the amout of layout necessary. Obviously this can vary. I have no idea how many pipes you need to run on your particular project. As far as the actual installation time, these pins install quickly. But, the layout takes time. Go over the blueprints and figure all your pipe runs before you get to the job. Mark all the dimentions on your plans.

    These pins are installed from the top of the deck, so string line your pipe runs and mark the correct hanger spacings.

    As far as coordination, you need to get with the superintendent, like now, and discuss what the pour schedule is. You should be installing your cans and pins as soon as they begin forming the deck. Go over the areas you need formed with the superintendent and formsetters and see if they can't get these decks down first, which will give you more time. You should have plenty of time if you stay up with the project.
    the dog

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

      dirty, subterranean decks were our bread and butter. these 12'' thick slabs with 2 courses of re-bar was always a push. it wasn't uncommon for us to have 50 bathrooms on the first level, not to mention the rest of the kitchens and laundries.

      the timing depends on the rest of the trades. the rod busters are going to be on top of you if you don't get a full day without them. they get 2 rows of steel and you need nothing in your way to snap lines. sparky comes in after the first course of steel.

      on a decent job the framer will snap his outside walls and hallways. this will help all the trades to keep the same marks. if you need to snap all your own walls, then you better make sure they are 100% correct. nothing like core drilling the whole job

      we would always install our closet bends too. this gave us the head room in the garage and would give us the support for the risers above it too.

      on some special jobs, jobs that had floating forms, we had to can everything and were not allowed to drill anything. the nice thing was it canned fast. the bad thing was it took a lot longer to pipe, as we had to install all the figure fittings and supports to hold them in place.

      as far as rod inserts go. we had made "bolt pounders" basically it would install 3/8'' or 1/2'' bolts through the plywood forms without drilling. these were custom made slide hammers that you would feed a 3'' long bolt with a threaded nut 1'' up from the starting thread. this would leave 2'' for the concrete to grab and support the bolt. the 1'' end would be pounded through the plywood form with the slide hammer. this process would allow you to work on your legs and not have to bend. you load it from the top and pound it with the weighted handle. 1 or 2 good blows was all it took. 1/2'' was a little tougher.

      still all of this required good take offs and snap lines.

      i remember as an apprentice on 1 deck the time the rebar was going down as we were canning. at the end of the day our power cords were totally entrapped in the maze of steel. i came up with the idea to cut off the end of the cords, this allowed us to pull the cords through the maze much easier

      hope this helped

      rick.

      where in la. is this job? i'll do a drive by no shooting
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

        Man... stuff like this makes me wish I were in the trades!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

          Excellent advice,thank-you;

          Weasel have you ever watched football players in training where they have to run as fast as they can through the parralell tires.Well imagine doing that when the tires are fabricated out of freshly cut,razor sharp rebar and bare wire.Oh,and now the tires are 12" high aaand you need to carry two five gallon buckets with tools and material while pulling a cord in your teeth

          Just kidding,if I wasn't the pro's would be having drtyhands ham with their eggs for breakfast tommorrow

          Dog,now what am I going to do with this VERSACE dog training kevlar suit I got off Beverly hills P.D.
          Thank you for the advice.They havent poured the underground parking yet so I imagine I have some time to do further research.I warned the owner not to drop a bomb on me and give me the plans at the last second.His foreman is running the french drains now,I'm already getting a few phone calls with questions.
          I certainly hope I havent wasted my money on this suit.B.H.P.D. Has the same return policy as H/D and I think I've already lost my receipt

          Rick,I did not know you worked on the subterrainians as well,shows how well I know the unions.But now that I think about it, there probably were not too many non union outfits who could keep up.
          I'm going to look into the elevation issue,I just dont know what UBC would say about introducing a void that horizontal piping that size into such a structuraly enginered design.Already yanked the 12x12x12 tub box idea.
          I HOPE THIS IS THE WAY IT WILL GO DOWN.I feel I was invited to the PHCC show this summer.The plumbing should be in by then.Whoever wants to show up the morning of and critique my work I'll treat to breakfast.I don't know where the show is but the offer is real

          I was told the building is in Burbank,but when I heard the cross streets it sounds more like Teluca Lake,especialy when I asked the foreman if he could see Universal Studios on the hill,and his eyes lit up.

          Anyone stop by when you want.Hope I don't see any pink hard hats

          I'm sorry you guys i am ranting,starting to get writers cramp like you get when have to fill out a full page invoice to justify your over inflated price for a toilet flapper.
          Just excited to do something new and challenging.

          THANK-YOU for listening and responding.There are few things I care about and this forum is one of them

          Adam

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

            i get to burbank every couple of months for a commercial building rehab. a buddy of mine is the project manager there and i get stuck with all the fun stuff.

            not sure if you got the jist of my post. the closet bends and figure fittings were the only plumbing in the pour along with the waste risers. we cut them approx. 2'' longer than the pour and 2'' lower than the deck. just enough to band to. all no hub was wrapped with 2 layers of 10 mil. no horizontal piping was installed. also deck drains were poured in place. tubs and showers were canned.

            the trade show is the first week in june next to the queen mary in long beach. hope to meet you, dog, mark, and josh. plenty of factory reps. maybe ridgid will have a poster girl

            p.m with a job address.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

              I understand,lady say's all clear,I will be there, hope to see you and others.

              Josh,I know you can pull this one off.What's it gonna take

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                If no one already suggested it think about having someone monitor the pour and ready to jump in and fix any oops like when someone knocks a can loose cause the cement finishers and laborers will have their hands full and won't be watching out for your interests.

                Been quite a while but I did a couple high rise jobs when I was an apprentice and stood watch during the pours. Double check your layout, it's cheaper than core-boring later.
                ---------------
                Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                ---------------
                “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                ---------
                "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                ---------
                sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                  Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                  If no one already suggested it think about having someone monitor the pour and ready to jump in and fix any oops like when someone knocks a can loose cause the cement finishers and laborers will have their hands full and won't be watching out for your interests.

                  Been quite a while but I did a couple high rise jobs when I was an apprentice and stood watch during the pours. Double check your layout, it's cheaper than core-boring later.
                  Bob,especialy these days and on this project.
                  I can guarantee the owner have the plumbing foreman watch and protect our product instalation during the pour.

                  Being we have never worked with this concrete company before there is great potential for them to get out of control.For all I know this could very well their first time working on this type of project.

                  I'm trying to get some time on the plans without stepping on and hurting the plumbing foremans toes,he's not only a freind but thin skinned.

                  But this is nothing new to anyone to any feild,just another day in the sun
                  Last edited by drtyhands; 03-18-2007, 09:08 PM. Reason: add

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                    I havent even found out when the exact date for PHCC is this year. Would love to meet up with some of you guys if I could. Rick has been trying to get me to sneak out there this year.

                    Depending on where some of my projects end up there may be a chance of me comming. So wheres breakfast

                    dirtyhands, good luck on the job. You've got some good support here.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                      Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                      Bob,especialy these days and on this project.
                      I can guarantee the owner have the plumbing foreman watch and protect our product instalation during the pour.

                      Being we have never worked with this concrete company before there is great potential for them to get out of control.For all I know this could very well their first time working on this type of project.

                      I'm trying to get some time on the plans without stepping on and hurting the foremans toes,he's not only a freind but thin skinned.

                      But this is nothing new to anyone to any feild,just another day in the sun
                      drtyhands,

                      I hate to burst your bubble, but I think you're looking for real advice here. The experience of the concrete contractor means nothing to you. You have to get this done and on a commercial site if you're looking for help from other trades forget it. With a good relationship, you can get help as far as borrowing something, etc. But with layout and cans, it's all you. That is because after these pours these guys will be gone, you'll be there trying to make the plumbing work. At that point nobody will care that the concrete guys said blah, blah, blah.

                      Bob D. is correct on suggesting having someone at the pour. I just went through a week of pours on four buildings I'm doing. They are post-tention- slabs, which means jack-hammering and fixing problems are really not an option. I, myself, was there for every pour. As good of plumber as I have at this company, mistakes are sometimes made. We did alright, we had a floor drain that was set too high. We couldn't lower it by adjustment, and ended up wading through concrete at the last minuite and lowering it. There was a floor sink that looked too high, but we had a laser level set up and found that the wet concrete was too low. I talked to the general contractor's superintendent, and they fixed it.

                      This isn't meant to scare you, but to let you know you may be in for more then you bargained for.

                      I'm willing to give you any advice you may need, because you are a plumber.
                      the dog

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                        Thanks dog its nice to have your support.
                        The only concern I have with the concrete company is that when I put something in the members of his crew understand how important it is to not stomp all over it during the pour.You know what I mean,some crews are rougher than others.

                        I am going to enjoy this project.

                        Thanks for watching that I don't bite off more than I can chew

                        Rick will have the address soon, you will be more than welcome to stop by

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                          Saw the reply for hilti products. I recomend powers Bang-its and wood Knockers. Follow the link they also are less expensive than the hilti ptoduct and you can get all the specs from the on line site
                          http://www.powers.com/mechanical.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                            Originally posted by PLUMBERSBREAD View Post
                            Saw the reply for hilti products. I recomend powers Bang-its and wood Knockers. Follow the link they also are less expensive than the hilti ptoduct and you can get all the specs from the on line site
                            http://www.powers.com/mechanical.html
                            I agree that they are easier. I just threw that name out as an example. But he still needs to check the specs before proceeding.
                            the dog

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Inserts For Threaded Rod?

                              Plumbersbread,
                              The Knockers are what we are going to go with.Got 500 sitting at the contractors shop.Using the blues 1/2-3/8.

                              You guys nailed it,thank you

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X