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HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

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  • #31
    Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

    Tks for the valuable input from all of you. Sound slike I cannot avoid cutting the old, well.. guess I'll have to do it anyway as it was not properly done in the first place ... I wouldn't have known without you... I love forums!

    HVAC / Rick: can you clarify that if I would just turning on some fauset that should help eliminate trapped air?

    plumberscrack: it is a propane torch, and no, I never got to wipe off the solder ball coz I could not re-flow it .. but per Rick's observation, may be I never had heated the fitting (the 90) long enough to reach the required temperature.

    I'll keep y'all posted on this journey

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

      Some times when you have a small amount of solder like that you can heat it and it will be able to flow (melted), but the surface tension on it will keep it in place, virtually making it look like it is not melted, the drip will not necessarily fall off, there is oxidation on the surface and at times it will hold the solder in place and not show a major color change.

      heating and wiping the solder off of it with a dry cloth will pull off the melted solder. (like your trying to clean off crud off of it.) You may need to heat and wipe it a few times to get it off, (it will stay silver in color as it will remain tinned) but your removing the bulk of the solder.
      NOTE: that has been said a number of times.


      Hold the torch flame on a propane fueled torch about 1/2" to 2" away from the end of the flame, it is hotter there, not in the blue flame. propane torches will work but are minimal, Mapp gas is hotter. (be sure your torch is rated for the use of Mapp fuels)

      (put some flux on it and it may help it so you can see when it will flow or silver up as it will clean the surface, but it will not necessarily drip off, or necessary run),

      If your intent on reusing the fitting, you will more than likely need to heat both the valve and the fitting, to the past the melting point of solder and while there both hot slide them together, (cleaning both of excess solder well will help). fluxing the fitting before assembly, and may need to do that with a new fitting as well, depending on how much of the old solder you can remove and how tight the clearances are on the pipe fitting and the valve,
      Last edited by BHD; 05-07-2007, 08:59 AM.
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      • #33
        Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

        Originally posted by Wagon Man View Post
        Tks for the valuable input from all of you. Sound slike I cannot avoid cutting the old, well.. guess I'll have to do it anyway as it was not properly done in the first place ... I wouldn't have known without you... I love forums!

        HVAC / Rick: can you clarify that if I would just turning on some fauset that should help eliminate trapped air?

        plumberscrack: it is a propane torch, and no, I never got to wipe off the solder ball coz I could not re-flow it .. but per Rick's observation, may be I never had heated the fitting (the 90) long enough to reach the required temperature.

        I'll keep y'all posted on this journey
        wagon man, this is not your issue. since the valve is next to the main, there is not going to be an air pocket next to the valve. this applies to a longer dead end run. trapped air will be caught in the valve and overheating the valve can cause the pressure side to leak or blow off. once again this is not your issue.

        use the rag and torch. it really appears that the fitting never got hot enough from your photos.

        you need to replace the 90 and clean the valve out of solder.

        truthfully a pro can have this fixed and running in 15 minutes. the valve is your critical joint. it would be a good learning experience for you to watch and learn.

        rick.
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

          Ouch even for the dog this is a new low. Don't worry about the dog John he barks but doesn't bite.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

            Hope you have someone ready to put out the potential fire with that paper back insulation so close to where your working sounds like you have not turned your tourch up with enough flame to heat fitting. remove old ell and re-solder. You Can do it. Freddy

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

              Rick wrote: "there is no problem soldering a valve with water live on the other side"

              True, if you know what you are doing and where to put the heat. And no matter what anyone says that water on the 'live' side of the valve will draw heat from the joint which you have to compensate for in one way or another. If it doesn't then the pipe (full of water remember) will be at room temperature after you finish soldering the joint on the 'dry' side right? Yeah, sure it will.

              I did not say it was impossible. I said it was something you had to learn how to deal with, and cooking the fitting is not the way. This is not a "get a bigger hammer" situation, it's one that requires you know what you are doing. And as I said and Rick agreed with me pretty much I think since he stated the same in his post is to get some professional help in learning how to solder. If you have never had to solder in a situation like this it will frustrate you, but once you have been through it once or twice you should have no problem.
              "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
              John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                agree

                a nurse watches a doctor and before you know it, the nurse can do almost the same as the doctor.

                let the plumber do the job and you be the apprentice for this one. it will be a very cheep learning experience. plus you insurance co. will like that too. both for fire and flood

                rick.

                wagon man what ever happened to the shark bite suggestion i gave you. use a sharkbite male adapter 3/4'' and screw a new 3/4'' threaded ball valve into it. then another 3/4'' male adapter and 3/4'' 90 and possibly a 3/4'' coupling along with 1' of 3/4'' pipe. 15 minutes with no worries and approx. $30 worth of parts. no flame or fire

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                  Bob / Rick, truly appreciate all the subtle warnings ... I full understand your concern on the "live" pipe will be drawing the heat and obviously I do not have the experience to handle the situation.

                  Two options left (way I see it): I will either get a professional to do the job or go with the "shark bite" solution.

                  Tks, everyone, you all have been extremely helpful. THANKS!

                  I'll post final result in due course.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                    I know I've asked some not so smart questions in the past (and in the future) but give me a break. 36 replies and 4 pages on how to solder. I love the sharing of information but lets talk about something else.
                    Buy cheap, buy twice.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                      Try to add post count?

                      Go start a new thread if you don't enjoy this topic or you were already an expert on everything and anything.

                      And yeah......pls don't hijack my thread. Thank you.

                      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                      I know I've asked some not so smart questions in the past (and in the future) but give me a break. 36 replies and 4 pages on how to solder. I love the sharing of information but lets talk about something else.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                        Wagon Man,
                        What happens when you try to practice on a few fittings at your work bench?

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                          Fighting hard for some free time, but I surely will... case in point.. took me almost 1 week just to snap two pic... : average 10 hrs work day + cars are all past due on fluid change + lawn should have been mowed 3 weeks ago + on-going paving project + 22 months old with serious degree of food allergy.

                          But it's all fun though....


                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          Wagon Man,
                          What happens when you try to practice on a few fittings at your work bench?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                            Originally posted by Wagon Man View Post
                            Try to add post count?

                            Go start a new thread if you don't enjoy this topic or you were already an expert on everything and anything.

                            And yeah......pls don't hijack my thread. Thank you.
                            There are two reasons why I don't help assbites like you:

                            1) Some very knowledgeable people attempted to help you, but you could care less.

                            2) I love to watch guys like you struggle. It makes my day.
                            the dog

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                              dog is back

                              rick.

                              i would have figured he would have tried our suggestions by now. but i guess the volvo needs a tune up
                              phoebe it is

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: HELP: Unable to reflow the old solder material.

                                Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
                                There are two reasons why I don't help assbites like you:

                                1) Some very knowledgeable people attempted to help you, but you could care less.

                                2) I love to watch guys like you struggle. It makes my day.
                                Plumdog,
                                In response to wagon mans post "Go start a new thread if you don't enjoy this topic, etc."

                                I was going to suggest that the poster who took a shot at the thread do something very simple WHEN YOU SEE THE THREAD JUST DON'T READ IT!!!!

                                Comment

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