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  • #16
    Re: Floor Sink Sizing

    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
    Rick I love cleanouts and so do the building owners I work with,I actually put them on second floor waste in custom residential.
    where have you been the last 30 years

    i wish everyone would think of the next guy. one day the next guy could be you

    see my example of vent stacking

    thanks adam.

    rick.

    ps. joey would interpret this differently
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Floor Sink Sizing

      Commercial application.
      The customer's architect suggested that I modified the plumbing waste system that he drew and had approved by the city's plan check.We all know he's asking me to risk a red flag by the city's field inspector.

      Sure he got nothing to loose, nor dose your customer, he's leasing the unit.
      Run Away. If you dump 4 commercial sinks at one time into a two inch floor drain or sink, it will be flooding the area. even 3" will be challanged. I would like to know what type of bussiness they will be conducting, that would need these sinks, sound like food prep of some kind, if so that would need an interceptor, I would, if I decided to do the job, Go with the plan that's been approved. Not only risking a red flag but no money for your time becauce your way did not pass inspection,

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Floor Sink Sizing

        Originally posted by freddy View Post
        Commercial application.
        The customer's architect suggested that I modified the plumbing waste system that he drew and had approved by the city's plan check.We all know he's asking me to risk a red flag by the city's field inspector.

        Sure he got nothing to loose, nor dose your customer, he's leasing the unit.
        Run Away. If you dump 4 commercial sinks at one time into a two inch floor drain or sink, it will be flooding the area. even 3" will be challanged. I would like to know what type of bussiness they will be conducting, that would need these sinks, sound like food prep of some kind, if so that would need an interceptor, I would, if I decided to do the job, Go with the plan that's been approved. Not only risking a red flag but no money for your time becauce your way did not pass inspection,


        Amen Brutha from anutha mutha

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Floor Sink Sizing

          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
          where have you been the last 30 years

          i wish everyone would think of the next guy. one day the next guy could be you

          see my example of vent stacking

          thanks adam.

          rick.

          ps. joey would interpret this differently

          Sounds easy Rick, but I've spent a lot of time on my current project trying to make required clean-outs work in a high dollar four building facility that feels that any clean-out cover lowers the aesthetics of the "look". My opinion at this point is who cares what they have to pay later for service work.

          I'm sure you understand my position.
          the dog

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Floor Sink Sizing

            dog. it doesn't have to be a real clean out. i spoke to adam and explained my example to him. he know understands my vent stacking idea.

            basically on the last fixture prior to the roof penetration. make sure that the vent line tee or wye that picks up the lower floor is installed so that the vent pipe is a straight shot into the top floor fixture. not the vent from the lower floors. all it takes is to stack the tee over the proper line. no extra cost, just a little common sense and looking forward.

            you would be surprised at how many so called drain cleaning co's think that by snaking or jetting from the roof of a 3 or 4 story residential building that they are cleaning the waste lines all the way down to the garage.

            chances are they are cleaning vents, until the bottom floor, then the waste line. if the vent penetration was installed the way i've tried to explain it, then you could clean all the waste lines on the way down. it doesn't cost anything extra to install. it just takes a little common sense.

            p.m. if you want to discuss. i would like to talk to you you're missing all the late night chat. forget the instant messaging, the phone is better for us computer apprentices

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Floor Sink Sizing

              Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
              Sounds easy Rick, but I've spent a lot of time on my current project trying to make required clean-outs work in a high dollar four building facility that feels that any clean-out cover lowers the aesthetics of the "look". My opinion at this point is who cares what they have to pay later for service work.

              I'm sure you understand my position.
              This does not sound like the same person who's hundreds of posts over the years that I have come to respect.

              Plumbing Burnout?
              Take yourself out of the loop,give yourself the break you have earned,treat yourself to something you deserve

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                i hope that dog isn't aging at an 8 to 1 ratio

                dog is my age and your's adam.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                  Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                  This does not sound like the same person who's hundreds of posts over the years that I have come to respect.

                  Plumbing Burnout?
                  Take yourself out of the loop,give yourself the break you have earned,treat yourself to something you deserve

                  Here's the situation Drtyhands:

                  I have my guys install a cleanout that I find important.

                  I have an owner's rep. and an architect who do not want anything diminishing the surfaces of the walls, ceilings, or floors.

                  I explain the value of such cleanout.

                  I am asked by the above listed geniuses if it is required by code, and if it will pass inspection without it.

                  I tell them it will pass inspection without the cleanout.

                  I am told to leave it out.

                  I figure I have three options at that point:

                  1) Sneak in at night, just before finishes are installed, and install it anyway.

                  2) Tell them I'm installing it weather they like it or not, at which I will be removed from the project.

                  3) Take the view that it is their building, their decision, I gave my expert opinion, and if they want to spend more money on service later, so be it.

                  I chose #3.

                  If chosing #3 doesn't meet with everyone's standards, I guess I'll just have to live it.
                  the dog

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                    I agree with Dirtyhands in that I install as many cleanouts as I can get away with. However, I agree with dog in that you don't always get to do what you would like to do.

                    Many years ago I represented a builder who built a large home in Beverly Hills for the owner of a Jeans Company. One of the issues on the defect list included "unsightly" cleanouts. These were not optional cleanouts but required cleanouts.

                    Mark
                    Last edited by ToUtahNow; 06-25-2007, 01:55 AM. Reason: spelling :(
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                      The cleanouts are always installed with the homeowners interests in mind.Underslab on a higher end home the mains and branches that require cleanouts will actually be what many would consider a overkill distance to get to get outside the building,exterior wall,closet or some other not so (in plain view location).It only takes a backhoe a matter of minutes to dig another 30' and the pipe and fittings to do this are a small percentage of the overall plumbing project.The locations are brought to the generals attention for approvall.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                        The cleanouts are always installed with the homeowners interests in mind.Underslab on a higher end home the mains and branches that require cleanouts will actually be what many would consider a overkill distance to get to get outside the building,exterior wall,closet or some other not so (in plain view location).It only takes a backhoe a matter of minutes to dig another 30' and the pipe and fittings to do this are a small percentage of the overall plumbing project.The locations are brought to the generals attention for approvall.
                        Again sounds easy. What about when you don't answer to a homeowner, you answer to a corporation that is out of state? What if you answer to an owner's rep who knows nothing about construction, but knows what high dollar members of country clubs expect for their $50,000 membership, and $5,000 a year dues? What about when installing that non-required cleanout is not 30' away, but would have to be extended 120' away and extend through 2 grade beams which the structural engineer has specified can only be passed through in the middle third if the beam? What if you can't get the elevation to pass through the beam at that elevation? What if you have to answer to your company why you had to extend what has now become a trench of around 180' to get around a grade beam for a clean-out that is not on the plans or required by the plumbing code? What if you value your own job and your company's welfare over idiots who place cosmetics over utility?

                        When you can answer those questions you may have a point.
                        the dog

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                          Dog, aren't most these problems solved by the engineer who designs the prints and then you just build to prints. Doesn't this apply in your case? If the structual engineer and the mechanical engineer prints conflict(I don't see how this can happen) then you just put in a FAR or RFI.
                          Buy cheap, buy twice.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                            Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                            Dog, aren't most these problems solved by the engineer who designs the prints and then you just build to prints. Doesn't this apply in your case? If the structual engineer and the mechanical engineer prints conflict(I don't see how this can happen) then you just put in a FAR or RFI.
                            If the engineers had it all planned out correctly, there would be no need for RFI's. RFI's are to protect the contractors and to aid the building owner when the engineers screwed up. Keep in mind the RFI's are answered by the same people who screwed up in the first place. They often involve change orders, which are charged to their contract. Therefore you have an entity who made a mistake, who then must acknowledge the mistake by admitting they are wrong and in many cases paying for it. It has been my experience that unless the situation is completely unworkable, the engineers are more than willing to sign off on substandard design to avoid fault. I have seen this many times in my career. Sad, but reality.
                            the dog

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                              But the RFI does put the mistake in writing as the FAR puts a solution in writing. This protects you from blame. Am I jaded by doing government jobs? The only civilian projects I did was 9 years ago when I did commericial HVAC.
                              Buy cheap, buy twice.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                                Gear Junkie,
                                I used to look up to architects and engineers but it seems that the times have caught them into the rush-rush as well.

                                The set of plans I was given to quote off of showed electric Wtr/htr.When I got a full set the K-sheets refered to a gas wtr/htr.While the P-sheets which I was given showed elect.Called arch.,nice guy explained his apprentice made a mistake he didn't catch.I still had to RFI to cover my a$$ down the road.Plans are not even close to what they used to be.So much is allowed to be left out of the arch. responsibilities knowing the subs will pick-up the loose ends at there expense of resources.Again follow the ladder to the top and you will find the greedy man with more than he will ever need

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