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  • Floor Sink Sizing

    Gentlemen,ladies?,whatever

    Commercial application.
    The customer's architect suggested that I modified the plumbing waste system that he drew and had approved by the city's plan check.We all know he's asking me to risk a red flag by the city's field inspector.

    Anyway here it is,1 standard three compartment sink is drawn draining into it's own floor sink through my choice of 2"pipe indirect drain.1 standard prep sink with approximately 30 gal. holding capacity drawn with it's own floor sink with my choice of 2" indirect (I could use 1.5 D.W.V.copper But I have plenty of 2" left off of the 20' stick needed for the 3 compartment.)

    Architect wants me to drain both into 1 sink under 3 compartment.The two sinks are only 4' apart so the horizontal is within the 15' limitation on indirect waste.

    Even though there are only two sink faucets which the 2" trap can handle I want to be able to provide drainage for all 4 compartments being let go at the same time.If I cannot get the customer to leave it per plan,I am going with a 3"drain size floor sink.

    I have already had to start using the eyes in the back of my head due to the fact that both the customer and the building owner tried to convince me that there was no grease waste stubbed into this suite even though there are two 4" C.O. in the middle of the floor 1' apart and offset.Second job walk with customer was issue free on greese issue.I can easily see the customer getting a lower lease if he does not dump into the building owners trap.And the architect drawing 2 sinks,getting me to put in 1 and hoping the inspector either won't catch it or think it will be O.K.

    Is there somewhere in the Ca. U.P.C. (outside L.A. city) that I could reference to better inform myself on this

    Thanks guys.

    ADAM

  • #2
    Re: Floor Sink Sizing

    Adam,

    I'm not familiar with the Cal. UPC code so can't help you there but I'll bet Mark knows.

    Why does architech want you to change piping layout?

    Are all 3 drains from 3 comp. draining individually to floor sink? or are you connecting 2 together? Commercial garbage disposal anywhere?

    I would definately go with at least the 3" floor sink if all 4 sinks are draining into it. It would have to be a deep one shallow won't work here.

    The plumbing inspector might miss it or just not care but I'll bet that Heath Dept. inspector won't and around here he ALWAYS has the final say in this.

    ~Bill

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Floor Sink Sizing

      Excellent perception crack,I especialy like the deep floor sink,didn't even think of the different depths of all kinds of floor sinks,thank-you.

      3 comp three into 1 at end closest to prep sink.If neccessary,I'm not comfortable at this point.I need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt if it's acceptable.

      Or better yet,get customer to take responsibility in writting,nope that doesn't work his attorney would laugh and use it for toilet paper

      Crack you just brought a thought to mind.I need to get some litterature on health code requirements.

      Damn,sometimes I feel so far behind
      Back to the reasearch dptmnt,thanks to the internet and local book store.

      Adam.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Floor Sink Sizing

        I would stick with the original plan. If the architect wants to change it, let him sign something saying he will take the heat if it goes south. Basically if I understand correctly you have a prep sink and three compartment sink. I would leave it as the plans are drawn. The customer will be happy having the additional floor sink , especially when one backs up. Is there a grease trap. Will there be one in the future. Is the one basin sink a prep or hand sink.
        Last edited by Crappy days; 06-17-2007, 06:38 PM.
        THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Floor Sink Sizing

          The grease trap serves the entire srtip mall.I only brought it up because so many times I see people trying to get an ignorant person to do something to save them money not considering or worse not caring how much it could hurt the other
          If this scenario is honest I would like to help as much as I can.

          Adam

          P.S. If the architect has to draw and resubmit to city it will cost customer.I know,I've posted it myself,LACK OF PLANNING ON YOUR PART DOES NOT CALL FOR AN EMERGENCY ON MY PART.The problem is if I was more knowledgable I could call it,on my own,on the spot.
          Last edited by drtyhands; 06-17-2007, 06:48 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Floor Sink Sizing

            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
            The problem is if I was more knowledgable I could call it,on my own,on the spot.
            Adam,

            I only mentioned the Health Dept because I've done restaurants exactly per plans and the day before they want to open Health dept comes in and wants changes done. Even though it was the same inspector that signed off on plans in review.

            Nothing wrong with referring to the code book while on site. I keep a copy of the IPC commentary with me always. It's been a big help in grey areas of plumbing code.

            Sometimes, I just act confident and make stuff up to suit my needs. You'de be surprised how often that works

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Floor Sink Sizing

              Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
              Adam,

              I only mentioned the Health Dept because I've done restaurants exactly per plans and the day before they want to open Health dept comes in and wants changes done. Even though it was the same inspector that signed off on plans in review.

              Nothing wrong with referring to the code book while on site. I keep a copy of the IPC commentary with me always. It's been a big help in grey areas of plumbing code.

              Sometimes, I just act confident and make stuff up to suit my needs. You'de be surprised how often that works
              Cracks making real sense here. You can size it in the UPC (you don't have one?), but you are dealing with issues involving multiple parties, which as a plumber, not a lawyer, leaves you in trouble. You will never get in trouble going by plan. Submit what is known as an RFI (request for information) to the archetect regarding his changes. Do not change the plans unless he gives you a signed authorization detailing his changes. At that point it becomes his problem.
              the dog

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
                Submit what is known as an RFI (request for information) to the archetect regarding his changes. Do not change the plans unless he gives you a signed authorization detailing his changes. At that point it becomes his problem.
                dog came back to take the words out of my mouth.

                with an rfi it gets you off the hook and leaves a change order that's been approved.

                by the way. i see 3 compartment indirect waste plumbed into one 12'' floor sink with a 2'' trap. the starainers are typically an 1.5'' and don't drain full bore.

                be nice to me and install a 2'' c/o in the vent riser to get around the trap if it's in my neck of the woods

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                  Dirty, there is actually a new environemntal health section on the the Health Departments web page that might be helpful to you.

                  Mrs. Seat Down
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                    Originally posted by plumbdog10 View Post
                    Cracks making real sense here. You can size it in the UPC (you don't have one?), but you are dealing with issues involving multiple parties, which as a plumber, not a lawyer, leaves you in trouble. You will never get in trouble going by plan. Submit what is known as an RFI (request for information) to the archetect regarding his changes. Do not change the plans unless he gives you a signed authorization detailing his changes. At that point it becomes his problem.
                    BOOM and that is it,Thank-you once again guys.

                    R.F.I. let the architect cover it.

                    Dog, I wasn't expecting you so early this evening.Glad you had a chance to spend some time with us.

                    No more questions from me on this sink issue.

                    Will go with deep sink if they dump both into one and don't spec..

                    Contacting County Health Dept. tommorrow to find literature to back up everything.Been a while since I've done food prep(10 yrs).

                    Yes,I have current enforced UPC,also illustrated to educate inspector Just kidding.

                    Again the forum has proven itself,Josh get me a tissue

                    ADAM
                    Last edited by drtyhands; 06-17-2007, 10:47 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                      dog came back to take the words out of my mouth.

                      with an rfi it gets you off the hook and leaves a change order that's been approved.

                      by the way. i see 3 compartment indirect waste plumbed into one 12'' floor sink with a 2'' trap. the starainers are typically an 1.5'' and don't drain full bore.

                      be nice to me and install a 2'' c/o in the vent riser to get around the trap if it's in my neck of the woods

                      rick.
                      Rick I love cleanouts and so do the building owners I work with,I actually put them on second floor waste in custom residential.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                        Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                        Rick I love cleanouts and so do the building owners I work with,I actually put them on second floor waste in custom residential.
                        where have you been the last 30 years?

                        i wish that there would be a code requirement that states: the vent penetration has to be connected to the top floor waste stack vent.

                        meaning that when you tie in the common vents. the last tie in, san tee/ upright wye has to be stacked over the waste stack from the top floor. not the vent stack. this will allow for jetting or snaking of the waste stack and not the vent stack. of course at the ground floor it will get into the waste. i just want a simple way to clean the waste stack without having to get into the top floor unit and working from a cabinet. a very simple task for any ruff plumber if they think of this.

                        mark, can a get a second vote on this?

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          Dirty, there is actually a new environemntal health section on the the Health Departments web page that might be helpful to you.

                          Mrs. Seat Down
                          Wow,Joey too,I wasn't even thinking I would get this much attention,

                          Will do Mrs.Seat Down.

                          By the way,watching the way you worked Rick at the trade show over the camera he didn't tell you he bought.Your Ridgid handle reflects you well

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                            Wow,Joey too,I wasn't even thinking I would get this much attention,

                            Will do Mrs.Seat Down.

                            By the way,watching the way you worked Rick at the trade show over the camera he didn't tell you he bought.Your Ridgid handle reflects you well
                            she doesn't tell me when she buys new shoes or new purses

                            thanks for the reminder

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Floor Sink Sizing

                              Rick,
                              "where have you been the last 30 years?"

                              I could interperate this two different ways.
                              Could you clarify

                              Comment

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