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  • deck mount tub valve problem.

    just paid a visit to my brothers house to see my new 10 day old nephew and look into my brothers tub problem.

    he has a tract house built 20 years ago that he purchased almost 1 year ago.

    since he had a home warranty policy and he lives 45 miles away, i told him to have the warranty co send out a plumber. well after 5 trips to address a handful of items, my brother has given up on the incompetent plumber. i ended up replacing his water heater that the insurance co cashed him out on.

    so the last issue is lack of hot water volume in his upstairs deck mount tub valve. the company was clueless in even attempting to diagnose the issue.
    the cold is fine and the hot just dribbles out. i removed the 20 year old ceramic stem and determined that there was plenty of water suppling the valve. i then tried to back feed the cold into the hot by removing the tub spout and inserting a cork into the deck spout adapter. still very little flow back into the hot side.

    at this point it was either a kinked line to the spout or debris.neither that was going to fix itself. since there is no access to the valve, i had to cut a 6''x6'' hole in the first floor full height wall to access the valve on the other side. now my brother was nervous like a new daddy

    so i measured twice and cut once to expose the valve right on the money

    what i discovered was a first to me. i even called mark to run it by him too. now we were both stumped. 60 years+ combined and we never came across this

    the valve was basically a wide spread lav faucet with a bigger deck mount spout. the valve bodies and center spout tee were threaded for 3/8'' water flex lines like used in a lav widespread. problem was there were no flex lines installed. the plumber used 5/16'' od refrigeration tubing and soldered the tubing into the valve body and tee. thus reducing the ports to 1/4'' i.d.

    this is a fairly large master tub. i figure that the inspector 20 years ago didn't allow flex connectors without an access panel. the access would have been on the living room wall approx. 10' above the floor. so that's where the brilliant idea of using 5/16'' copper came into

    i took a couple of photos to attempt to show the bottom side connections. as reference the water feeds are 1/2'' copper. (5/8'' od.) the others are 5/16'' od copper.

    couldn't believe it and still can't. this is in a private community of 160 homes starting at 1.5mil.

    i had my brother fill the valve and spout tee with vinegar and sit overnight. maybe just a hard lime buildup

    rick.
    Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 06-25-2007, 01:05 AM.
    phoebe it is

  • #2
    Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

    this is a clear photo of the bottom side. the cold is the front one with the 90 elbow. this is fine.

    the problem one is the hot on the far side. it is only a 4'' spread between the valve and the tub tee.
    Attached Files
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

      Rick,

      That sure looks like 3/8 OD tubing was used. It also looks like the spout tee is not matched with the valve bodies as it looks like it is CXC. I'd bet a guy like you could change that out pretty quick.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

        has this always been a problem?

        could solder have run into the tubing and blocked the hot side?
        Brent

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

          Originally posted by BAPlumber View Post
          has this always been a problem?

          could solder have run into the tubing and blocked the hot side?
          my brother has been there almost 1 year. it's been bad since he moved in.

          i doubt that the solder would have blocked the port this long after the original installation.

          rick.
          phoebe it is

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

            Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
            Rick,

            That sure looks like 3/8 OD tubing was used. It also looks like the spout tee is not matched with the valve bodies as it looks like it is CXC. I'd bet a guy like you could change that out pretty quick.

            Mark

            very good mark. the tee is a 1/2'' c x c x fip tee.

            the tubing is 5/16'' od. it is slipped into the threaded valve body, then soldered. the picture is tuff to size, but my eyes don't lie

            use the 5/8'' od feed to compare the sizes.


            a new deck mount valve would be a simple fix. i probably could replace it in the 6'' x 6'' hole i cut. my brother will look at new deck mount valves and see what matches best to the polished brass finish 20 year old bathroom.

            rick.
            phoebe it is

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              i removed the 20 year old ceramic stem and determined that there was plenty of water suppling the valve. i then tried to back feed the cold into the hot by removing the tub spout and inserting a cork into the deck spout adapter. still very little flow back into the hot side.

              at this point it was either a kinked line to the spout or debris.rick.
              I would go with the debris idea, can a wire be fished back through the spout adapter, or from the hot?
              Brent

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                Or just replace it.
                Brent

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                  Originally posted by BAPlumber View Post
                  I would go with the debris idea, can a wire be fished back through the spout adapter, or from the hot?
                  yes, a wire or flexiable wire rope could be used to snake it from the spout tee if the vinegar doesn't soften it up. the valve body won't work as the valve has a cast in seat for the ceramic stem.

                  i didn't go there with my truck. i just went in my suv.

                  the drywall saw i came up with from my brothers little collection of tools was a saber saw blade and vice grip. it worked great, but the real test will be if he can dissolve it with vinegar and put it back into service.

                  he's the money man, not the handy man

                  thanks, rick.
                  phoebe it is

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                    with the water heater replacement, I'm wondering about pieces of an old dip tube?

                    we'll eventially find out though.
                    Brent

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                      a couple more photos.

                      the dip tube idea is good. but it should have reverse flushed out and there were no other signs of did tube residue.

                      havn't heard from my brother this morning if the vinegar did any good.

                      a 1' section of 1/8'' wire rope with a cordless drill should work as a snake. hopefully he can fish it down the spout adapter through to the valve.

                      taking notes brother steve

                      rick.
                      Attached Files
                      phoebe it is

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                        i had my brother fill the valve and spout tee with vinegar and sit overnight. maybe just a hard lime buildup

                        rick.
                        Who uses a deck mount tub enough to have calcium buildup even with a 5/16" pipe?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                          Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                          Who uses a deck mount tub enough to have calcium buildup even with a 5/16" pipe?
                          Actually P/C we have a bar sink faucet that was never used with the flow restrictor at the bottom of the gooseneck spout that was plugged up solid.
                          The plumbing company I had quote the job for the landlord said his price book told him to charge $485.00 to poke a hole with a pin in the base of the removable gooseneck.I told him to go ahead so the landlord wouldn't have to pay for a show up fee and not have anything done

                          AAAHHAAHAAAAIIIIYYYY crack myself up

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                            Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                            Actually P/C we have a bar sink faucet that was never used with the flow restrictor at the bottom of the gooseneck spout that was plugged up solid.
                            The plumbing company I had quote the job for the landlord said his price book told him to charge $485.00 to poke a hole with a pin in the base of the removable gooseneck.I told him to go ahead so the landlord wouldn't have to pay for a show up fee and not have anything done

                            AAAHHAAHAAAAIIIIYYYY crack myself up
                            Actually the $485 is not a bad price if you were allowed to keep the pin afterwards. To be fair you do have to consider the cost of advertising.

                            Mark
                            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: deck mount tub valve problem.

                              Good point Mark,
                              I would also imagine the rising gas prices have had a lot to do with increase in rates.

                              Comment

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