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  • #16
    Re: hot water storage

    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
    Me too,That's kinda why I think I was a little premature with the distracting subject.

    I have some questions for later on the incinerator topic after the forum has addressed PIPING MAD's line items.
    Don't make me wait Drty let's hear them now

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: hot water storage

      Well to bad this one died out, I thought I could have learned more here.
      Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

      http://www.contractorspub.com

      A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: hot water storage

        Originally posted by garager View Post
        Well to bad this one died out, I thought I could have learned more here.
        Bullsh!t,Not if you and I have anything to say about it

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: hot water storage

          Don't take this worng, but if the topic is of such interest to you both then keep it going by contributing something of worth not just a bump to the top of the heap.
          ---------------
          Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
          ---------------
          “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
          ---------
          "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
          ---------
          sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: hot water storage

            Bob and Crack,
            My curiosity was in the incinerators themselves.Spending most of my life in an area where the largest piece of property a person owns is 1/4 of an acre.I was wondering how a person with acres of property would look on an incinerator.Is there a governing entity that has to be considered when looking into a device such as this.

            If a guy had one,can he burn brush,paper trash and such.

            This may be information I may never use.But,after Garager showed an interest based on what he was discussing with his father(?) I figured I would bump the top of the heap

            Also, the term medium was used by Plumberscrack,I have relocated many units but do not know about the chemical that looks like anti-freeze.What is it called and how does it,if at all,differ from what we use in our automobiles?

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: hot water storage

              To prevent freezing of water systems in RVs (and homes too) this is what you would use. You can find it (might be another brand of the same stuff) at Walmart and big auto parts stores. It's much less toxic than what you normally use in engine cooling systems.

              http://www.peakantifreeze.com/rvmarine.htm

              You may want to read this - http://www.startribune.com/397/story/801962.html


              Automotive - yellow green color: The main hazardous ingredient in many brands of automotive antifreeze is ethylene glycol. It's very poisonous when swallowed, causing severe damage to the heart, kidneys and brain, even death in some cases.

              RV type that's normally pink: If you are closing up a home for winter, always use the less toxic types of antifreeze (the ones that contain propylene glycol), preferably RV antifreeze because it's the least toxic of the bunch.

              Use this straight out of the jug. Try hard to remove all the water in the system first. Be sure to really flush it out in the spring. You don't want to drink either type.
              Last edited by Woussko; 08-22-2007, 12:09 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: hot water storage

                Adam,

                I grew up in the San Fernando Valley in the 50's and we all had pre-cast incinerators in our backyards. I still remember when the City of Los Angeles outlawed incinerators and we had to take ours down. Every once in a while you will still find them in backyards where the owners turned them into flower pot stand.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: hot water storage

                  My interest in this subject is the storing of hot water. Using large solar panels as apposed to incinerators, to heat a large amount of water, then storing it in a heavily insulated tank, whether above the ground or in it. Using this water for showering, sinks and heating your home. I am not an engineer but to store energy for a long period of time is fascinating and I want to learn more. I would tend to think that putting a well insulated tank underground is the best answer instead of above ground. How deep should a tank go, I'm sure the deeper you go the warmer the ground is for it. How large should the piping be and what type of r value of insulation around the pipes be. Of course the water leaving the buried tank would head to the Hot Water tank as a make up and to the furnace some how. Being that a furnace is an enclosed system, would it even be feasible to do some thing like this? Say you got a 3000-6000 gal tank, whats the best way for a residential home to use something like this, where it gets to expensive to even consider doing this. Sh!t, you could even go w/2 homes on a system, I'm not going to look at apartments just homes. Its basically Geo Thermal heating with an extra kick from the solar panels. So the ground isn't really heating anything, but acts more like an insulation. Some days I wished I stayed in the plumbing field and learned all these formulas for stuff like this, heat loss that is. Enough from me for now, I hope you get what I'm trying to say here, so do dazzle me w/your knowledge and I make this statement w/the utmost respect
                  Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                  http://www.contractorspub.com

                  A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: hot water storage

                    Can't get to much into the specifics you're looking for because I don't know the answer but I know that the ground is roughly 60 deg year round. 3000-6000 gal is a huge amount of water to heat up. I don't know how this could be done economically.
                    Buy cheap, buy twice.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: hot water storage

                      Actually, the deeper you go the hotter it gets. At 3 miles deep, the temp is about 125 F. A little cost prohibitive until you can get a cheaper method of boring that deep.

                      Go
                      Practicing at practical wood working

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: hot water storage

                        Originally posted by Gofor View Post
                        Actually, the deeper you go the hotter it gets. At 3 miles deep, the temp is about 125 F. A little cost prohibitive until you can get a cheaper method of boring that deep.

                        Go

                        True, but there is no significant change for the first hundred feet or so, it's still <100F, so I do not think it would pay to go beyond a few feet deep with a storage tank. Heating the 6000 Gal is not difficult, it just takes time and will be a factor of the size of your collector, how well your piping and tank are insulated, the transfer medium used (because of its BTU capacity), and of course the WX namely the amount of sunshine you will receive at any given point on the earth.

                        Once the storage mass is up to temperature then you just need to ensure that your don't draw out more than you out in over the course of a few days or week. If you also put up a few solar panels to power your pumps and controls your system will be almost free to operate, so whatever comes out to you is all profit in a manner of speaking.
                        ---------------
                        Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                        ---------------
                        “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                        ---------
                        "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                        ---------
                        sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: hot water storage

                          Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
                          True, but there is no significant change for the first hundred feet or so, it's still <100F, so I do not think it would pay to go beyond a few feet deep with a storage tank. Heating the 6000 Gal is not difficult, it just takes time and will be a factor of the size of your collector, how well your piping and tank are insulated, the transfer medium used (because of its BTU capacity), and of course the WX namely the amount of sunshine you will receive at any given point on the earth.

                          Once the storage mass is up to temperature then you just need to ensure that your don't draw out more than you out in over the course of a few days or week. If you also put up a few solar panels to power your pumps and controls your system will be almost free to operate, so whatever comes out to you is all profit in a manner of speaking.
                          Now thats what I'm talking about.

                          It would take time to heat a large volume, also if that tank is insulated, thus allowing the water to stay hot much longer. As well as those pipes going in and out must be insulated under the ground. When there is lets say 3000 gallons of hot water in a tank and you use 50 gallons of hot water for a shower, what kind of a temp. drop could you expect from make up water that is already in the lines under the ground heading towards the tank, 1/2 of a degree maybe. I would have to say with the lines running no farther than say 100 feet, this includes the inside of house also, meaning tank is just about right beside the house under the ground. Then theres the heating aspect, ummm what could we expect from this. I would think that there would have to be tubes running around inside to keep this water separated (heat exchanger), so because it would be circulating, it would cause a decrease in the tank water temp. But unless there was an actual testing (setup) I don't think you could get an answer. Maybe you could w/math, this is when it gets to be totally fascinating in our discussion between my dad and I. I couldn't even count the nuber of times we rambled about all this.

                          Mark
                          Great Link for a Construction Owner/Tradesmen, and just say Garager sent you....

                          http://www.contractorspub.com

                          A good climbing rope will last you 3 to 5 years, a bad climbing rope will last you a life time !!!

                          Comment

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