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  • Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

    I wrote to the forum a few weeks ago and got some very good advice about my stack pipe replacement. One piece of advice was to have the risers replaced while the wall was open.

    The plumber who is redoing all potable water in the house has installed a new shut-off valve also. But he went from the 1” galvanized pipe that enters my house to a 3/4” cpvc. (Plumbing 1)

    Then it reduces again to 1/2” cpvc in the risers. Is that all right? In my mind it will cut down the amount of water that will flow through the pipes, right?

    I REALLY DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS but my original reaction to all of the new plumbing going in is that all that STURDY galvanized pipe now looks like its been replaced by “tinker toys”. And all these little twisty bends and 90-degree angles make it look like things are going to pop at any second! (Plumbing 2, 3, and 4)

    Is this a common reaction to new replacement pipe?

    Oh yes, the picture of the new stack is in “Plumbing 5”
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

    It looks like you should have some pipe straps installed, to hold pipes from moving around, also I cannot tell but the first picture. Did he install a brass by CPVC fitting? If Not you should have that. Depending on the number of fixtures 3/4" maybe OK as far as size of piping. The drain pipe should have a metal band clamp or No-Hub coupling, Rats can and will eat the rubber on the fitting used. He Used way to much glue on the pipe and fittings, hope it did not plug the fitting, if so you will need to cut it out and re-due that section of pipe.IMO

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

      Freddy brought up some good points and here's a couple more to ponder.
      Galvanized pipe is really not a good piping material no matter how it looks. It corrodes from the inside out and the rust will often build up to the point of stopping flow. This was a big reason why galvanized supply lines were oversized. The "average" house is fine with a 3/4 main supply with 1/2" risers with modern materials (copper, pex, cpvc).

      CPVC is a good material as long as it's install properly. It does become brittle with age and needs to be insulated if there's a chance of freezing. I wonder about the skillset of your plumber. He used the wrong type of valves, he should have used brass valves with cpvc inserts. He also used too many 90's. He could have eliminated many of the joints with a little forethought and some 45's. His job really looks like a handyman's job. Sure you'll get water, but a professional plumber would have done a much better job.

      Looking at the CI line repair, I don't see any support when he cut the stack out. Doesn't help out my confidence level with him. CI is so heavy that you always need to support it before cutting a section out. Can you show more detail from the stack repair? I'm going off memory, but is this the $60 an hour plumber?
      Last edited by gear junkie; 10-06-2007, 10:38 PM.
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

        i don't use cpvc pipe here, but it looks like an indoor lawn sprinkler system was installed

        proper hangers are very important and so is proper transitions.

        the all rubber fernco/ mission bands are not legal here except for outdoor work. typically the proper transition bands are required for different material types. i.e plastic to cast.

        is the guy doing the work licensed and insured

        rick
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

          Fernco couplings are allowed (inside and outside) in Baltimore for transitions of dissimilar materials, but they must be accompanied by a stainless steel shear band, whether horizontal or vertical. A No-Hub coupling would not be allowed in this situation unless a No-Hub adapter is used at the transition on the PVC. The valves used are not necessarily the wrong type -- they are approved for this type of work. Sure, there are better valves, but these are allowed. All of the work looks a little sloppy right now -- perhaps the plumber's not done. Is he coming-back to strap and block the CPVC and support that stack? The glue work is really nasty, and as Freddy mentions, some glue might be severely restricting water flow. In Baltimore, most homes are piped with 3/4" from the service, then reduced down to 1/2" for the last two fixtures on a branch, so if this is the case with your job, the plumber you used did what any other plumber in the area would have done.

          To me, the work looks like that of an unlicensed residential rough in construction plumber working on the side. If this is the case, I'm sorry to have to say this, but you get what you pay for.

          Bruce

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

            Pauline,

            Post up some more pics we can't get enough of this stuff

            Looks like he used the wrong size glue dauber for the size pipe being installed. Smaller one would have been better here.

            Or maybe he one of these guys that wipes the outside of the glue joint as well

            Hope he's not being paid per fitting used

            Bruce is right with the use of a shear ring on the Fernco but he probably didn't cut the flare off the bottom of the cast iron sanitary tee so the band will have a bulge in it.

            What's going on with the 1-1/2" Fernco? He's not done?

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

              Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
              Pauline,

              Post up some more pics we can't get enough of this stuff

              Looks like he used the wrong size glue dauber for the size pipe being installed. Smaller one would have been better here.

              Or maybe he one of these guys that wipes the outside of the glue joint as well

              Hope he's not being paid per fitting used

              Bruce is right with the use of a shear ring on the Fernco but he probably didn't cut the flare off the bottom of the cast iron sanitary tee so the band will have a bulge in it.

              What's going on with the 1-1/2" Fernco? He's not done?
              That's actually a 2" Fernco coupling and that was my clue that hopefully this guy isn't done yet and will be coming back to make everything right. It looks like he snapped/cut the cast right below the sanitary tee (probably splitting it up into the hub), so a shear band should still fit, but I would bet that makeup piece isn't in the best shape. I would have taken the entire bathroom group out, including the tee so I could redo the whole thing without having to fight with the mortar for slope and room for the Fernco couplings. That 2" Fernco will need a shear band too. I think Pauline would be better-off with everything being PVC and I think the plumber would have made things a lot easier on himself if he had thought ahead about this instead of trying to just patch things up. This is what makes me think this guy doesn't do service/remodel work on a regular basis.

              You're right about the dauber -- it looks like he is using a quart can dauber instead of a pint or half-pint size. Also, "wrapping" the joint with glue is another sign of inexperience or lack of knowledge. So many rough in guys do this and it serves no purpose other than to hold a potential leak for a very short time. Crack -- you know how it is around here -- there are so many people put on trucks who call themselves plumbers just because they can glue a piece of pipe to a fitting.

              Hopefully Pauline will post more pictures before this work is covered-up. Hopefully Pauline will have an inspector look at it first.

              Bruce

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                Is plastic actually permitted for potable water? Here in our town in Westchester, NY, copper is the preferred material for potable water and no plastic is allowed for DWV.
                there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                  Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
                  Is plastic actually permitted for potable water? Here in our town in Westchester, NY, copper is the preferred material for potable water and no plastic is allowed for DWV.
                  No plastic for DWV???

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                    Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                    No plastic for DWV???
                    My thoughts, exactly!

                    Bruce

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                      Two things that wouldn't pass in my state.
                      Fernco's (need no-hub couplings with stainless steel sheathing)
                      PVC can't be installed directly under cast iron on a stack.
                      Thats just MY state...might be fine there, dunno.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        Two things that wouldn't pass in my state.
                        Fernco's (need no-hub couplings with stainless steel sheathing)
                        PVC can't be installed directly under cast iron on a stack.
                        Thats just MY state...might be fine there, dunno.
                        In your state, would you have to use a No-Hub adapter on the PVC, or do they let you just clamp the coupling to the end of the PVC pipe?

                        Do you know the reasoning for why your state doesn't allow PVC directly under cast on a stack? It seems odd to me, but I am sure they have a reason.

                        Bruce

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                          Technically yes, we're supposed to use the adaptor...seldom does anyone.

                          The weight of a cast iron stack on PVC isn't good, also PVC expands at a rate of 3/8" per 10' per 100 degree's, we're supposed to use expansion couplings or joints every 20' (in theory).
                          Not a good idea with cast iron above when you know min 130 degree water will pass through it regularly.
                          Inspectors here are fine with horizontal branches coming off CI, as long as you use adaptors (in theory).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            Technically yes, we're supposed to use the adaptor...seldom does anyone.

                            The weight of a cast iron stack on PVC isn't good, also PVC expands at a rate of 3/8" per 10' per 100 degree's, we're supposed to use expansion couplings or joints every 20' (in theory).
                            Not a good idea with cast iron above when you know min 130 degree water will pass through it regularly.
                            Inspectors here are fine with horizontal branches coming off CI, as long as you use adaptors (in theory).
                            Thanks, Duck.

                            Bruce

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Does this look right?-- Stack Pipe replacement

                              Bruce, in the same respect, I'm curious about your code on this....

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