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1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

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  • #16
    Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

    Dunbar,

    Could not find the warranty exclusion you mentioned. I use the sharkbites for temporary in progress work. Very convienient. Just like The friggin JOHN GUEST cr*p , I would never use in a permanet installation.

    wookie

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

      never read anything about removing the shark bite and not being able to reinstall it.

      not only is the propress fitting twice as thick as a solder fitting. but it also has a long sweep 90 radius.

      show me any copper fitting that comes with a 50 year warranty.

      have any of you guys ever installed victaulic copper pipe and fittings. what do you think holds the pressure? basically the same principal that holds a tubeless tire on a rim.

      how about all the large scale victaulic steel piping used for fire protection and hvac piping.

      rick.
      phoebe it is

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

        Quote:
        Originally Posted by PLUMBER RICK
        in the old days we use to have paper thin temporary copper caps that were only designed for testing. these were only approx. 1/4'' deep shoulders for the solder.

        i do like the idea of a temporary shark bite cap. this would be a reusable cap for construction and removed during finish. Thats great if your the one going back to set finish, at approx $5.00 each, I see no value in this.


        last time i checked, if i ruffed it in, i set the finish. or it was the same company that ruffed and set finish.


        nothing like having a bullet stub out too short or a soldered on cap too short. at least with the shark bite you can salvage a 1/2'' of clean round tubing. If you stub out to short, you have no business roughing something in, it is just as important as height.


        when i was doing new construction, 1981-1995, we had ruff crews and finish crews. doing thousands of units a year. there will always be a stub or two that comes up short behind a cabinet. a bullet or copper cap has approx. 1/2''- 3/4'' end that is useless.



        granted the caps are a few dollars each. but when was the last time you priced out type "L" bullets. the cost of a 1/2'' x 6'' or 8'' bullet will make you think twice about using cut offs with a shark cap. Bullets save you the cost of a 90, a cap and a section of pipe, and the labor to solder on the cap and cut and ream the 90 and section of pipe.


        please price out a 90 degree bullet. the ones i always used were either 6'' or 8'' type m or l copper. i know that the 90 degree ones are much more expensive. typically we had a tee and a straight stub out. on the top floor it was a 90 and a stub. i'm not talking a small single family home. i'm talking about thousands of stubs per job. all those short copper scraps can now be used for stubs.


        just like we reuse gal cap ups for gas lines and waste stubs, we can reuse shark bites for testing. After you remove and re-install that sharkbite a few times, do you still feel confident your not going to leak or it's going to blow off? How many times can you re-use the same cap without messing up th o-ring or the teeth??


        not sure how many cycles the o-ring will last. i would imagine if the outer tubing is reamed, the o-ring should not get pinched or nicked. the teeth should not be an issue. the stainlees gripper teeth are a lot tuffer material than copper.


        just about every water filter system and reverse osmosis unit uses a form of a shark bite/ john guess fitting. these are plastic and i've never seen one pull off. Thats interesting, cause I hear problems with john guess fittings all the time and I have witnessed one leak and one completely fail

        interesting that every under counter filter and r/o unit comes with john guess fittings. if there was an issue, they would have reinvented the way of connecting the tubing. most hot water dispensers are now john guess and not compression.



        then there is the mechanical fittings used on hdpe gas pipe. these are basically a shark bite type of design that is not designed to be removed.
        You must be talking about chemical or acid waste pipe, keep in mind this pipe is not under pressure.


        you must never have done a poly gas system or repair that didn't use a fused joint. next time you see the gas co, ask them what they use for a repair fitting. i own a fusion machine. but sometimes it doesn't pay to take out a $3000. or rent ($75.-$125) a fusion machine machine to join a pipe at 2 ends.
        look at a mechanical fitting for hdpe gas pipe next time your at the supply house. it's basically the same design as a john guess/ shark bite fitting.



        rick.



        Sorry, didn't mean to make your post bleed like a "F" paper in high school, but you did make points and I just needed to add my 2 cents

        that's up to debate

        rick.
        __________________
        phoebe it is

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

          Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
          Sorry, didn't mean to make your post bleed like a "F" paper in high school, but you did make points and I just needed to add my 2 cents
          Now that's funny. Rick did give a good counterpoint later on. I think that sharkbites are a good repair product. NASA uses o-rings for countless high pressure application. A crimped end on pex or quest, imo, is more likely to leak. With the crimped fitting, the pipe is actually compressed and pinched against a hard surface while the SB seals with an o-ring held by in place by teeth that grip the pipe. I'm not debating the effectivness of copper as it has a solid track record but just that SB might not be the worst thing in the world.
          Buy cheap, buy twice.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

            Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
            NASA uses o-rings for countless high pressure application.
            I guess this weekend I'll be taking my Plumber Rick shrine down and putting up one for Robert
            Last edited by plumberscrack; 12-01-2007, 04:36 PM.

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            • #21
              Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

              Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
              And the Challenger disaster showed us what can happen to a failed O-ring.

              I guess this weekend I'll be taking my Plumber Rick shrine down and putting up one for Robert

              Thanks Crack, that made me laugh. It means alot

              You can keep Ricks, just put mine about 6" higher then his, I can share.

              Luckily this is an open forum and we can express different views and opinions, no one is right or wrong, time proves all.

              Sometimes we ALL have a hard time understanding that just because someone does not do it "OUR WAY" then that makes it the "WRONG WAY"

              Open minds are wonderful thing.
              sigpic

              Robert

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                I guess this weekend I'll be taking my Plumber Rick shrine down and putting up one for Robert
                I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression here.

                It's not so much a shrine as it is a voodoo doll in a fur lined wooden box with precious artifats.

                Thank you Michael for the private message concerning this item but it is not for sale at this time. If it were to go on the market in the future I will contact you but please don't insult me with such a lowball bid. I can however direct you to a location in the Voodoun district of New Orleans where you can purchase your own. High Priestess Madaam Toilette (Cajun, pronounced twa-lett-te') does not currently have an online store though. She can be found in the back room of the Perms and Worms bait shop/hair stylist on Tchoupitoulas St.. Things are a little creepy back there and she occasionally speaks in tongues but has genuine articles that have impressive powers.
                __________________

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                  Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                  I don't want anyone to get the wrong impression here.

                  It's not so much a shrine as it is a voodoo doll in a fur lined wooden box with precious artifats.

                  Thank you Michael for the private message concerning this item but it is not for sale at this time. If it were to go on the market in the future I will contact you but please don't insult me with such a lowball bid. I can however direct you to a location in the Voodoun district of New Orleans where you can purchase your own. High Priestess Madaam Toilette (Cajun, pronounced twa-lett-te') does not currently have an online store though. She can be found in the back room of the Perms and Worms bait shop/hair stylist on Tchoupitoulas St.. Things are a little creepy back there and she occasionally speaks in tongues but has genuine articles that have impressive powers.
                  __________________
                  LOL, you are truthful about your signature.

                  Tracy
                  .

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                    We all know the Challenger failed due to a failed o-ring but there still are many applications where they're in use, including on present NASA flights. I'm not saying they're the perfect joining technology but they're not part of the equation for leaky joints.
                    Buy cheap, buy twice.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                      Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                      We all know the Challenger failed due to a failed o-ring but there still are many applications where they're in use, including on present NASA flights. I'm not saying they're the perfect joining technology but they're not part of the equation for leaky joints.

                      They are for handymen and home owners Big Ben. There is nothing permanent about a push on fitting.

                      Sorry, the market will always come up with new ideas to make our jobs easier, but really what they are doing is weakening the industry.

                      Nothing is better then 2 pipes soldered or threaded toghether.

                      Heck, if it was up to me, I would love to go back to lead and oakum. It =is a proven method.
                      sigpic

                      Robert

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                      • #26
                        Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                        Lead and oakum......Give me a break.

                        I've got to here this.

                        Chicks must dig you.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                          Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                          They are for handymen and home owners Big Ben. There is nothing permanent about a push on fitting.

                          Sorry, the market will always come up with new ideas to make our jobs easier, but really what they are doing is weakening the industry.

                          Nothing is better then 2 pipes soldered or threaded toghether.

                          Heck, if it was up to me, I would love to go back to lead and oakum. It =is a proven method.
                          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                          Lead and oakum......Give me a break.

                          I've got to here this.

                          Chicks must dig you.
                          I tell you what guys.........I still use lead and oakum.
                          Every so often I bust out my ladle, yarning & packing irons, and joint runner previously soaked in oil.
                          When ever I do a sewer lateral tie in on an older lot, I just shove in my 4" PVC-DWV and caulk joint that baby in there.
                          I know there is Ty-seal, but in a 5 foot deep trench where a machine is gonna be dumping in the back fill, there is no way my pipe is gonna pull out.
                          I also use it for a lot for older existing kitchen/laundry situations where the 1 1/2" galvanized pipe has rusted. I wiggle the pipe out of the 2" CI bell, use my hammer to pry out the old leak & oakum, shove in my 2" PVC-DWV, repack the oakum and melt the old lead.

                          In my 20 years of new construction and repairs, I have never used Ty-Seal. But you know what they say.......Never say "Never".

                          The bummer part is.......Chicks still don't dig me.....must be my dirty finger nails.

                          Tracy
                          .

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                            Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                            They are for handymen and home owners Big Ben. There is nothing permanent about a push on fitting.

                            Sorry, the market will always come up with new ideas to make our jobs easier, but really what they are doing is weakening the industry.

                            Nothing is better then 2 pipes soldered or threaded toghether.

                            Heck, if it was up to me, I would love to go back to lead and oakum. It =is a proven method.

                            i'll put all the money i have $$$. up against your 3/4'' soldered hot water circulating line with soldered 90's against my propress 90's and we'll see who's 90's last longer with water flowing 24 hours a day 7 days a week. the o-ring is not the item that's going to fail. it's the paper thin copper short radius 90 that will pin hole much faster than a long sweep type k+ propress 90. that's the reason there is a 50 year warranty.

                            show me any warranty on a soldered system. i could start casing in on all the pin hole pipes and fittings i've scraped. some is as little time as 4 years.

                            i make it a point to mark every propress joint and shark bite joint with my initials and date. i've yet come back to 1 that has failed.

                            can't say that about the soldered paper thin fittings and short turn 90's.

                            why is it that the companies that reline water pipes are doing a booming business doing copper relining? by the way, they no longer will reline gal pipe anymore.

                            why has the trend gone to propress on t/i work. talk to the companies who sell the product and ask them who is buying propress. everyone from 1 man shops to large scale union shops. in fact 3 years ago i was on a camera job in newport beach in a hotel. the whole hotel was propress.

                            not saying that if you don't use it, it's wrong. i'm saying that there is nothing wrong with propress, sharkbite or any other fittings that rely on a rubber seal. next you're going to tell me that no hub bands are no good. tell all the fire sprinkler companies that their rubber victaulic fittings are no good. tell that to plumbers that use victaulic on their copper systems. technology changes. some good and some bad. propress has been around in europe since the mid 70's and the usa since 2000. i think we would have heard of issues by now.

                            i for one have invested heavily in new technology, i wouldn't be spending my hard earned money on junk.

                            now if you want to talk junk, talk kohler

                            rick.
                            phoebe it is

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                              I haven't had to caulk a horizontal joint for twenty years.I've let all my ropes and irons go.Sure glad I have Rick,my luck I'll need one next week
                              Last edited by drtyhands; 12-01-2007, 09:11 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: 1/2" Brass Push-On Caps for Copper Pipe?

                                Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                                I haven't had to caulk a horizontal joint for twenty years.I've let all my ropes and irons go.Sure glad I have Rick,my luck I'll need one next week

                                lead wool is the trick for horizontal. vertical i still pour.

                                actually i still carry a ladel and lead and oakum in the truck along with a few choice irons

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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