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  • #16
    Re: UPC Fixture Count

    There is no rule of thumb about how the drains are run under the house. I am assuming your house is slab on grade. A plumber could locate the main sewer for you with an electronic locator if you cannot find it. It may be the only way to do what you want to do is going to be to run a new line from the shop to a 4" line in front of the house.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: UPC Fixture Count

      Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
      Yes, a good plumber can find out the size of the drain with a camera.

      you can also look at clean outs, do you have a 4" c/o around? or maybe a 3" that transitions to a 4" at the bottom. Your best bet will be a good plumber with a camera.
      WCP, I have a 3" C/O and was hoping that there was a transition to a 4".

      Lets say that I hired a plumber with a camera and it was true that I had a 3" C/O that transitioned to a 4" and everything was good. Have you ever heard of giving a letter of finding for a customer that could be used by the building department?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: UPC Fixture Count

        NJ code (NSPC 2006, Table 5.4.9) does not allow a 3" CO on a 4" line, minimum size for 4 & 6" is a 4" CO.




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        • #19
          Re: UPC Fixture Count

          Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
          NJ code (NSPC 2006, Table 5.4.9) does not allow a 3" CO on a 4" line, minimum size for 4 & 6" is a 4" CO.
          Here minimum size cleanout for all piping 4" and larger is 3 1/2"...
          There is never a requirement for a 4" c/o in the UPC (AFAIK)...
          A 6" sanitary line still only requires a 3 1/2" c/o...

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: UPC Fixture Count

            Originally posted by porschedude View Post
            WCP, I have a 3" C/O and was hoping that there was a transition to a 4".

            Lets say that I hired a plumber with a camera and it was true that I had a 3" C/O that transitioned to a 4" and everything was good. Have you ever heard of giving a letter of finding for a customer that could be used by the building department?
            Our local jurisdictions are not that complicated.If you research and find 4" draw it on your plans for submital for approval.After your installation the city is going to require that they see your tie in.It will/should be common knowledge for your inspectors to tell at that point wether you are connecting to a 3 or 4 inch pipe per plan.

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            • #21
              Re: UPC Fixture Count

              Originally posted by markts30 View Post
              Here minimum size cleanout for all piping 4" and larger is 3 1/2"...
              There is never a requirement for a 4" c/o in the UPC (AFAIK)...
              A 6" sanitary line still only requires a 3 1/2" c/o...
              You will have to throw back any 4" fish you catch in that sewer

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: UPC Fixture Count

                the 3.5'' is because of the ibco/ iron body clean out.

                my expanding cutters will easily go through a 3.5'' opening and expand out to 6''.

                now pulling out a hugh wad of baby wipes from a toilet with my k-50 5/8'' cable was fun

                rick.
                phoebe it is

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: UPC Fixture Count

                  Years ago I was reprimanded by my plumbing inspector for using 4". I have 6 commodes on the system, and a swimming pool waste. He said I should have used 3" anyway (but he passed me).

                  His explanation: Though code requires 4", in a single family residence more commodes does not represent increased usage, only increased convenience. Pipes are designed to be self-cleaning. If you oversize a pipe (based on actual usage) it will not properly clean and the likelihood of plugs increases.

                  That makes sense to me. Pipes are sized based on the amount of flow from the fixtures. When we cut commode flush quantity to less than half, why did the fixture units not decrease. Logically we could flush twice as many at the same time without an overflow condition.

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                  • #24
                    Re: UPC Fixture Count

                    Originally posted by BigThom View Post
                    Years ago I was reprimanded by my plumbing inspector for using 4". I have 6 commodes on the system, and a swimming pool waste. He said I should have used 3" anyway (but he passed me).

                    His explanation: Though code requires 4", in a single family residence more commodes does not represent increased usage, only increased convenience. Pipes are designed to be self-cleaning. If you oversize a pipe (based on actual usage) it will not properly clean and the likelihood of plugs increases.

                    That makes sense to me. Pipes are sized based on the amount of flow from the fixtures. When we cut commode flush quantity to less than half, why did the fixture units not decrease. Logically we could flush twice as many at the same time without an overflow condition.
                    actually they have.

                    the low flow 1.6 went down to 3 fu on private and 4 on public.

                    the greater than 1.6 are still at 4 fu. for private and 6 on public.

                    i have a few large scale buildings with powder rooms that plug up due to the distance prior to tying into a common waste main. the 4 powder room toilets run anywhere from 40-80' without any help from the rest of the system.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: UPC Fixture Count

                      Hmmmm, so if I do have a 3" drain all the way to the street, and I change out the three existing higher than 1.6Gal toilets to new 1.6Gal they would let it go and add the 4th toilet in the shop?

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: UPC Fixture Count

                        Originally posted by porschedude View Post
                        Hmmmm, so if I do have a 3" drain all the way to the street, and I change out the three existing higher than 1.6Gal toilets to new 1.6Gal they would let it go and add the 4th toilet in the shop?
                        California is currently working under the 2000 UPC which requires a 4" drain when there are 4-water closets on a horizontal line. Next week California will start using the 2006 UPC which requires a 4" drain when there are 4-water closets on a horizontal line. I doubt it will ever change but if it does it won't be for at least another 3-years.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: UPC Fixture Count

                          Originally posted by porschedude View Post
                          Hmmmm, so if I do have a 3" drain all the way to the street, and I change out the three existing higher than 1.6Gal toilets to new 1.6Gal they would let it go and add the 4th toilet in the shop?
                          If that makes it fly... but keep the old toilets; you might want to put them back in later. I've seen more than one house that never had a main line problem until they remodeled the bathrooms and put in 1.6gpf toilets, then suddenly it was clog city. All had cast iron lines, some were cured by jetting up the system from the septic tank and pulling the years of cast iron sand down to the tank, some were not.
                          This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: UPC Fixture Count

                            So here is another angle, the drawing corrections request a FU Count if it is 3". So I can provide the count which is below the maximum number and slide by the toilet note about having 3 on a lateral. It is worth a try...

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