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  • UPC Fixture Count

    Hello all,

    I am designing and building a workshop and new to drawing plans for houses. I design and draft for the aerospace industry. My problem is that I am looking for a chart to count the fixtures in my existing house. The plan check wants the information if I have a 3" waste line. I have a 3" waste line so I need to document the count on the drawings.

    I have the following existing in the house:

    1 Kichen Sink
    1 Utility Sink (Garage)
    1 Washing Machine Drain
    1 Softwater Discharge Drain

    3 bathrooms:
    Bathroom 1 = 1 sink, 1 toilet, 1 shower
    Bathroom 2 = 1 sink, 1 toilet, 1 shower/tub
    Bathroom 3 = 2 sink, 1 toilet, 1 shower/tub

    I plan to add:
    1 Utility Sink
    Restroom:
    1 toilet
    1 sink

    What do I have?

    Thanks in advance, Keith

  • #2
    Re: UPC Fixture Count

    Originally posted by porschedude View Post
    Hello all,

    I am designing and building a workshop and new to drawing plans for houses. I design and draft for the aerospace industry. My problem is that I am looking for a chart to count the fixtures in my existing house. The plan check wants the information if I have a 3" waste line. I have a 3" waste line so I need to document the count on the drawings.

    I have the following existing in the house:

    1 Kichen Sink
    1 Utility Sink (Garage)
    1 Washing Machine Drain
    1 Softwater Discharge Drain

    3 bathrooms:
    Bathroom 1 = 1 sink, 1 toilet, 1 shower
    Bathroom 2 = 1 sink, 1 toilet, 1 shower/tub
    Bathroom 3 = 2 sink, 1 toilet, 1 shower/tub

    I plan to add:
    1 Utility Sink
    Restroom:
    1 toilet
    1 sink

    What do I have?

    Thanks in advance, Keith
    I can give you a fixture count but your 3" line is limited to a maximum of 3 water closets regardless of the fixture count.

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: UPC Fixture Count

      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
      I can give you a fixture count but your 3" line is limited to a maximum of 3 water closets regardless of the fixture count.

      Mark
      Mark,

      Where is that called out? UPC or is that a local code?

      Thanks, Keith

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: UPC Fixture Count

        It's a basic UPC.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: UPC Fixture Count

          Ever since I've been an "internet" plumber since 2002, understanding that what works in my back yard doesn't hold the same for "your" back yard.

          The discussion of IPC, UPC, NPC and anything else I've missed, goes right over my head and I'll tell you why:


          There are a million ways to interpret those sections, every state either makes modifications to them or "relaxes" the code to whichever way it suits them, no matter if the majority agrees with it or not.

          Local authority in the city/town/municipality this thread starter is in will have the bottom line say-so as to what is implied as code approved to be in use as far as measurement of DFU load or fixture unit count. It's nice to fall back on these larger based systems of reference but it can be perplexing when someone follows that logic, puts a plumbing system in and finds out at the inspection that even though it says right there in print, the local authority has amendments and revisions that can alter that plumbing system.

          Some of it can be light and not majorly affecting the final outcome of the system design....some can if it implies to what product you're allowed to install in said structure.


          In KY the water closet is 6, bathtub/lavatory is 1.5 each so 9 is the total DFU load for a bath group. New construction is slowly leaving me in my age since I concentrate on the service side of plumbing.

          So I guess my question is without starting a thread to ask the obvious, is the majority of the members here who are plumbers, is your particular plumbing code basically a carbon copy of the implied code structures that is commonly spoke here? If that is true, then it explains the common ring of the bell in regards to these.

          KY is up with NY with having some of the most strictest codes in the United States and I indirectly take all other governing bodies as inferior, not superior in how and what gets enforced.

          It's a good thing to me to know code in this way at its most involved way.....because knowing it in any less fashion would be considered something I need to learn and educate myself on.

          Plumbing is something you never stop learning from, the internet and forums have taught me many practices across the globe that helps me with my everyday work life.
          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: UPC Fixture Count

            Well that really puts a damper on things if it is true in my area.

            They have not said that I can't have the restroom, they just want the count.

            Can someone give me the numbers?

            Also, I forgot the laundry discharge drain.

            Thanks, Keith
            Last edited by porschedude; 12-23-2007, 07:06 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: UPC Fixture Count

              Well that stinks,
              I wish there was something I can say.Table 7-5 in the sanitary drainage section has a footnote (4) on three inch pipe that only allows 3 water closets on a horizontal line and 4 water closets on a vertical line.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: UPC Fixture Count

                Originally posted by porschedude View Post
                Well that really puts a damper on things if it is true in my area.

                They have not said that I can't have the restroom, they just want the count.

                Can someone give me the numbers?

                Also, I forgot the laundry discharge drain.

                Thanks, Keith

                That is you keith, your UPC. It's in the footnotes, maybe thats why they want a fixture count. I came up with 32.5, I sized the discharge at .5 FU and the utility sinks as laundry utility sinks at 2 each, the rest is in the UPC. The laundry is sized at 3 FU
                Last edited by westcoastplumber; 12-23-2007, 07:57 PM.
                sigpic

                Robert

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: UPC Fixture Count

                  I will let you do the math but here is some info. California uses the UPC so this would include your area.

                  Kitchen Sink 2.0
                  Utility Sink 2.0

                  Washing Machine Drain 3.0
                  Softwater Discharge Drain 0.0
                  Toilet (1.6 GPF) 3.0

                  Lavatory 1.0
                  Tub & Shower 2.0
                  Shower 2.0

                  Max 3” Horizontal = 35 DFU (except maximum of 3 water closets)
                  Max 3” Vertical = 48 DFU

                  Max 4” Horizontal = 216 DFU
                  Max 4” Vertical = 256 DFU

                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: UPC Fixture Count

                    Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                    I will let you do the math but here is some info. California uses the UPC so this would include your area.

                    Kitchen Sink 2.0
                    Utility Sink 2.0
                    Washing Machine Drain 3.0
                    Softwater Discharge Drain 0.0
                    Toilet (1.6 GPF) 3.0
                    Lavatory 1.0
                    Tub & Shower 2.0
                    Shower 2.0

                    Max 3” Horizontal = 35 DFU (except maximum of 3 water closets)
                    Max 3” Vertical = 48 DFU

                    Max 4” Horizontal = 216 DFU
                    Max 4” Vertical = 256 DFU
                    ToUtahNow,

                    Thanks for the numbers.

                    I know these numbers are making sure that the toilet and drains operate properly, but the toilet that would be using in the shop at the exact moment replaces the one that I'm not using and the difference is the walk.

                    The question from the building department is what is the fixture count or if it is 4" they don't care. How can I tell if it is 4" or not. Do I hire a plumber with a camera hand have him inspect the line for size, or can that be done?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: UPC Fixture Count

                      Originally posted by porschedude View Post
                      ToUtahNow,

                      Thanks for the numbers.

                      I know these numbers are making sure that the toilet and drains operate properly, but the toilet that would be using in the shop at the exact moment replaces the one that I'm not using and the difference is the walk.

                      The question from the building department is what is the fixture count or if it is 4" they don't care. How can I tell if it is 4" or not. Do I hire a plumber with a camera hand have him inspect the line for size, or can that be done?
                      Yes, a good plumber can find out the size of the drain with a camera.

                      you can also look at clean outs, do you have a 4" c/o around? or maybe a 3" that transitions to a 4" at the bottom. Your best bet will be a good plumber with a camera.
                      sigpic

                      Robert

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: UPC Fixture Count

                        By the way Santa Maria is one of my favorite areas to ride motorcycles. My Brother-in-Law lives up there and a close friend is one of the brothers who owns Main Street Produce so I have been able to go riding in some really out of the way places up there.

                        If you could give us a better idea of what you are trying to do we might be able to figure something out with you. Chances are your house drain is only 3" but your upper lateral is 4". That means if you tie your new workshop bathroom into your upper lateral instead of your house drain you will be okay. Is your workshop attached or detached from your home? Where does your house drain exit the house and is there a cleanout there? Don't give up yet until we have tried a few more things.

                        Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: UPC Fixture Count

                          I remember when we could only put three toilets on a 3" line. That was before the ipc.
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: UPC Fixture Count

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            I remember when we could only put three toilets on a 3" line. That was before the ipc.
                            How many does IPC allow?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: UPC Fixture Count

                              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                              By the way Santa Maria is one of my favorite areas to ride motorcycles. My Brother-in-Law lives up there and a close friend is one of the brothers who owns Main Street Produce so I have been able to go riding in some really out of the way places up there.

                              If you could give us a better idea of what you are trying to do we might be able to figure something out with you. Chances are your house drain is only 3" but your upper lateral is 4". That means if you tie your new workshop bathroom into your upper lateral instead of your house drain you will be okay. Is your workshop attached or detached from your home? Where does your house drain exit the house and is there a cleanout there? Don't give up yet until we have tried a few more things.

                              Mark
                              Mark, I still ride the area. Lots of National Forest Areas. It used to much better when I was a kid. Dirt Bikes kept me out of trouble, well mostly...

                              Here goes,

                              Existing 2 story house, 1 bath downstairs, two upstairs, new proposed shop detached within 15 feet of a 3" cleanout. My plan was to plumb into this cleanout. Plan check wants to add a cleanout 3' out from the new toilet.

                              How are main plumbing drains layed out? Sewer connect is at the front of the house and the existing 3" cleanout is at the back corner. Would the 3" cleanout lineup straight with the sewer connect?

                              Comment

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