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  • #31
    Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

    I have yet to read the PSI taken from the hose bibb, at the front of the house, after the PRV??

    The only place I read you tested was at a faucet, that reading is not very acurate.

    I would test with 2 different guages, I keep 2 fairly new ones on my van, and I double test with both, guages can get knocked around and damaged.

    Test at the hose bibb entering the house, past the PSI, what is your PSI then? this would be cold water.
    sigpic

    Robert

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

      How's this theory? The reducing valve was bad and allowed for the expanding water to backflow so the expansion was never noticable or observed. The plumber altered the reducing valve by reducing the pressure to 50psi and maybe this "popped things in place" for lack of a better term. The reducing valve is now working as it should and not allowing for any backfeeding causing the huge spike in pressure. This would satisfy all the symptoms; why is the water 160 psi now and not before? Why does the neighbor's system work(never altered). Is this plausible?

      We do know this. You need an expansion tank and a new prv even if they don't solve the problem. These tasks should take you 3-4 hour tops. Do these and we'll see what happens next.
      Buy cheap, buy twice.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

        I'm going to go to Lowes in the AM to get an expansion tank and T&P valve.

        How's this theory? The reducing valve was bad and allowed for the expanding water to backflow so the expansion was never noticable or observed. The plumber altered the reducing valve by reducing the pressure to 50psi and maybe this "popped things in place" for lack of a better term. The reducing valve is now working as it should and not allowing for any backfeeding causing the huge spike in pressure. This would satisfy all the symptoms; why is the water 160 psi now and not before? Why does the neighbor's system work(never altered). Is this plausible?
        I have a hole in the theory you stated... There is a separate backflow preventer.

        Also, on the lines of a couple other comments...did something change before this all happened, and maybe the pressure what getting out somewhere else.

        I remember that only a few days before the water filter burst, I replaced the innards of one of my toilets. If I remember correctly, it was running a lot. So, maybe the excess pressure was getting out through there. Then, when I replaced it, it tightened that "leak" and it found the next escape... an old weakened water filter housing. Now that the water filter housing was replaced, it is finding an outlet, albeit tiny, in the form of dripping kitchen and shower faucets.

        But then, that still leads me to ask, how come it took 7 years to notice this. For this, I'll theorize that when the plumber came, he checked our pressure and said it was too high. I'm not certain what he said it was, but I'm thinking in the 90 range. He backed it down to 50 (hence my present 45 reading). So if our pressure was always at 90, maybe the jump to 130 or 160 wasn't as apparent as the just from 50 to 130 or 160. So now that he backed it down to 50, the jump is more apparent.

        But, that still doesn't explain why my neighbor doesn't have an Expansion tank and has no pressure issues.

        I have yet to read the PSI taken from the hose bibb, at the front of the house, after the PRV??

        The only place I read you tested was at a faucet, that reading is not very acurate.

        I would test with 2 different guages, I keep 2 fairly new ones on my van, and I double test with both, guages can get knocked around and damaged.

        Test at the hose bibb entering the house, past the PSI, what is your PSI then? this would be cold water.
        I don't understand why the reading would be different on an outside hose bib than it would be on my inside faucet. The hose bibs and the faucet are both AFTER the PRV. If my "cold" reading is at 45 inside, which is what I expect it to be (50ish), it seems it is reading correct. The only reading that would seem to be incorrect is the 160, but if the 45 is correct, why wouldn't the 160 be?

        This is really helping me. Keep those comments and theories coming!

        Thanks!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

          Expansion tank, expansion tank, expansion tank.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

            These are always hard to test because what we could do in minutes takes you days if it ever gets done because of a lack of specific tools and posting time. The reason your faucet is a bad location for the pressure test is because you stated (I think) it was a single handle faucet and no one knows how much if any water is bypassing.

            You need to find out your pressure in front of your PRV and both your hot (heater on/off) and cold pressure inside the house (or inside for the hot and hose bibb for the cold). For the most part you should be able to test hot and cold at your laundry unless you have a single valve.

            Your PRV is likely not a one way valve but if you give us the name and model number we can find out easy enough. When the water company told you you have a backflow devise on your meter I am guessing it is a simple “dual check valve”. It would help us to know what type of devise you have. With a backflow devise you should have an expansion tank installed. If your water heater has check type heat savers you need to check to make sure they are okay.

            If the hot pressure gets to over 160 psig and the T&P is not relieving the pressure the T&P needs to be replaced regardless of what else you do. What type of valves and what type of filter did the plumber install when he replaced your filter? How far away from the water heater is your filter? Is the filter media in your new filter the same as the old one?

            If you can provide pictures we may be able to spot something you have not noticed. With exact answers to all of the above it will be easier to try to diagnosis your problem.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

              Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
              there is, that's why all the questions. something has changed. i'm trying to figure out what. how long has that backflow preventer been installed. that's when your issues started. or you fixed all the dripping/ running fixtures in the system

              rick.
              this is from 9:55 am this morning. i had your answer. you now just realize after 30+ post what i told you to look for and what i determined was right.

              please in the future, follow up on the advice. i know it's free, but i did spend the better part of an hour this morning asking and probing you for answers.

              i had it all along with this last quote.

              Originally posted by adamw View Post
              I'm going to go to Lowes in the AM to get an expansion tank and T&P valve.

              I have a hole in the theory you stated... There is a separate backflow preventer.

              Also, on the lines of a couple other comments...did something change before this all happened, and maybe the pressure what getting out somewhere else.

              I remember that only a few days before the water filter burst, I replaced the innards of one of my toilets. If I remember correctly, it was running a lot. So, maybe the excess pressure was getting out through there. Then, when I replaced it, it tightened that "leak" and it found the next escape... an old weakened water filter housing. Now that the water filter housing was replaced, it is finding an outlet, albeit tiny, in the form of dripping kitchen and shower faucets.

              But then, that still leads me to ask, how come it took 7 years to notice this. For this, I'll theorize that when the plumber came, he checked our pressure and said it was too high. I'm not certain what he said it was, but I'm thinking in the 90 range. He backed it down to 50 (hence my present 45 reading). So if our pressure was always at 90, maybe the jump to 130 or 160 wasn't as apparent as the just from 50 to 130 or 160. So now that he backed it down to 50, the jump is more apparent.

              But, that still doesn't explain why my neighbor doesn't have an Expansion tank and has no pressure issues.

              I don't understand why the reading would be different on an outside hose bib than it would be on my inside faucet. The hose bibs and the faucet are both AFTER the PRV. If my "cold" reading is at 45 inside, which is what I expect it to be (50ish), it seems it is reading correct. The only reading that would seem to be incorrect is the 160, but if the 45 is correct, why wouldn't the 160 be?

              This is really helping me. Keep those comments and theories coming!

              Thanks!
              the help and answer to your problem was already answered this morning

              the rest is just listening to yourself think

              i know it sounds harsh, but please read through all the posts from #1 to where i finished this morning at 9:55 pst. post #14

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                I'll make sure you get the first pick of lolly pops after dinner tomorrow night.

                Will that be O/K Ricky

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                  Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                  I'll make sure you get the first pick of lolly pops after dinner tomorrow night.

                  Will that be O/K Ricky
                  Like you could stop him?

                  Mark
                  "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                  I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                    If this guy doesn't come back to fill us in on the finale...I'm gonna cry.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                      Ask and ye shall receive...
                      WH: Bradford White Model: MI5036EN10 - 50gal
                      T&P: Watts - M7 - STD - Z21.22 - 3/4in. - 10xl - Ext 3 - 150psi - 210*F
                      PRV: Wilkins - Model 600 - Range 25-75 - 3/4" pipe

                      Pictures!

                      click each for a MUCH larger version

                      T&P Valve:


                      Water Heater:


                      Filter setup: (currently on bypass):


                      From filter down to meter:


                      Backflow:


                      Meter & PRV:


                      PRV close up:


                      Thanks!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                        Okay so now we know your PRV is not a one way valve but you do have a dual check at your meter so you should have an expansion tank (sound familiar?) for thermal expansion. I don't see anything with the new filter or your water heater which should be causing problems.

                        Now depending on how much further you really want to go with this you need to get us those pressures. However, if you are ready to accept the advise to date and call it a day install the new T&P and the expansion tank which we already know you need and hopefully your problem is solved.

                        Keep us posted-Mark
                        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                          On another note as an FYI I just checked the owners manual on your filter and I believe your filter is set to bypass meaning you are not filtering your water. I wasn't sure if you were aware of that or not.

                          http://products.geappliances.com/App.../r03865v-1.pdf

                          Mark
                          "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                          I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                            theres a couple plumbers that feel like blowing there own horn so much there not answering your question. why after 7 years? (the plumbers are right you must get an expansion tank and t&p asap for yours and your families safety.) when you rebuilt your toilet did the fill valve look different from the other toilet fill valves in your house? the reason i ask is in washington 7 years ago we were allowed to install a device called a govenor 80 which is a toilet fill valve but it also works like an expansion tank to limit thermal expansion. i dont know if they were installed in PA but the timing is right because they only last about 7-10 years. and when they go bad than you have expansion problems. also have you done in maintenance on your heater (drain it?) over the years sediment will build around the thermostat and it will not work properly. ive seen some that werent even in liquid because of so much sediment. so i hope that answers your question. also if youve never drained your heater i wouldnt do it now it will cause more problems
                            Mike
                            Clark County Plumbing And Drain
                            www.plumbinginclarkcounty.com

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                              Originally posted by haycad View Post
                              theres a couple plumbers that feel like blowing there own horn so much there not answering your question. why after 7 years? (the plumbers are right you must get an expansion tank and t&p asap for yours and your families safety.) when you rebuilt your toilet did the fill valve look different from the other toilet fill valves in your house? the reason i ask is in washington 7 years ago we were allowed to install a device called a govenor 80 which is a toilet fill valve but it also works like an expansion tank to limit thermal expansion. i dont know if they were installed in PA but the timing is right because they only last about 7-10 years. and when they go bad than you have expansion problems. also have you done in maintenance on your heater (drain it?) over the years sediment will build around the thermostat and it will not work properly. ive seen some that werent even in liquid because of so much sediment. so i hope that answers your question. also if youve never drained your heater i wouldnt do it now it will cause more problems
                              Interesting call on the Watts ballcock but weren't those sold as retro-fits? I can't recall any manufacturer installing them on new water closets. I guess he could check at his neighbors house to see if his neighbor has a Watts ballcock. As for the thermostat malfunctioning I believe he tested the temperature while testing pressures and it is the same temperature it was 4 1/2 years ago.

                              Mark
                              "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                              I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Water pressure too high after using hot water

                                I put the pressure gauge on the outside hose bib.
                                The readings are the same. Around 50psi normally. After running hot water for 5 minutes, shutting everything off, around 10 minutes later, the gauge was up to 160.

                                Also, I manually opened the T&P and it did open and water came out (a bit brown at first). It seems to shut all the way, but I'm not 100% confident with that.

                                Finally, I wound up at Home Depot. I spoke with a couple of guys in the plumbing department. The one guy has been a plumber for 40 years. He recommended the first thing I do is replace the PRV. The other guy concurred that in this area, a lot of 8 year old homes are starting to need new ones.

                                So I bought one. I got the old one off. Now I have another issue. In the picture below you'll see what I'm going to call a brass fitting connected to the copper pipe. It is screwed on. Slightly behind that is the nut that will hold the fitting to the PRV. It seems the the threads on that nut are wider than the threads on the new one, so it will not fit when I try to attach it to the new PRV. So I need to get the fitting off so I can put the new fitting and nut in their place. Unfortunately, I can not get the fitting off! I've tried putting a wrench just behind the fitting (on the copper pipe nut) and turning the fitting with vice-grips. But it won't budge. I'm afraid to apply to much force, because if I snap the water line coming into the house (before the shutoff) I'm really gonna be screwed!

                                Any ideas on how to get this fitting off? Is there something I can spray on it?

                                Thanks!

                                Comment

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