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I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • #31
    Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally posted by Bob D. View Post
    You may be right but I don't think the code (ours anyway) has an exception for tankless heaters that would allow not using a tempering valve to protect handsinks and the like.
    My state doesn't, but I know of one jurisdiction that requires the water heated to 160, then brought down with a tempering valve...in case of legionaires...a bit extreme, but I know where your coming from.

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    • #32
      Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I saw some spec for tankless heaters which had output temperatures as high as 180 degrees. How I suppose they could have been for space heating or something but without a tempering valve what do you do with 180 degree water?

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

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      • #33
        Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

        Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
        Been a Rinnai dealer and installer for quite a while now. Never heard of series piping them. Always paralell.
        I attended a Rinnai seminar last year where they diagramed parallel, series and circulated. I was a little disappointed in the seminar as the engineer spent as much time telling us where tankless won't work so don't over sell them as he did telling us what might work. I'm afraid the technology is still in need of a little work right now but I firmly believe it is the way of the future.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
          I attended a Rinnai seminar last year where they diagramed parallel, series and circulated. I was a little disappointed in the seminar as the engineer spent as much time telling us where tankless won't work so don't over sell them as he did telling us what might work. I'm afraid the technology is still in need of a little work right now but I firmly believe it is the way of the future.

          Mark
          I went to a 8 hr service class, we cleaned out the shell, and re-installed everything, then diagnosed it, and a total of 8 hrs installation classes.

          Parallel install and recirculation off a storage or electric water heater.

          Tankless will work, they just need to be installed correctly, proper size GPM, water and gas sizes are a must!!
          sigpic

          Robert

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          • #35
            Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

            Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
            I went to a 8 hr service class, we cleaned out the shell, and re-installed everything, then diagnosed it, and a total of 8 hrs installation classes.

            Parallel install and recirculation off a storage or electric water heater.

            Tankless will work, they just need to be installed correctly, proper size GPM, water and gas sizes are a must!!
            No I know they work but the Rinnai guy was real careful to make sure no one told their customer the heaters would do something they couldn't do. Some of the plumbers actually walked out of the seminar swearing to never try a tankless. It seemed real counter productive to me.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

              Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
              No I know they work but the Rinnai guy was real careful to make sure no one told their customer the heaters would do something they couldn't do. Some of the plumbers actually walked out of the seminar swearing to never try a tankless. It seemed real counter productive to me.

              Mark

              i had a noritz factory salesman tell me that "tankless are for tree huggers"

              as far as parallel or series. the majority of drawings will show parallel.

              there is a nice jumper kit designed to tie 2 tankless heaters together. noritz makes them and it alternates the heaters till the next cycle or it turns them both on if the demand is needed.

              i've done both parallel and series on tank heaters. i prefer the parallel better.

              rick.
              phoebe it is

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              • #37
                Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                i had a noritz factory salesman tell me that "tankless are for tree huggers"

                as far as parallel or series. the majority of drawings will show parallel.

                there is a nice jumper kit designed to tie 2 tankless heaters together. noritz makes them and it alternates the heaters till the next cycle or it turns them both on if the demand is needed.

                i've done both parallel and series on tank heaters. i prefer the parallel better.

                rick.

                I like the Noritz, installing two of them next week......The Other Rick
                The Other Rick

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                • #38
                  Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  I saw some spec for tankless heaters which had output temperatures as high as 180 degrees. How I suppose they could have been for space heating or something but without a tempering valve what do you do with 180 degree water?

                  Mark
                  Thats the stdrd operating temp for many boilers.

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                  • #39
                    Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    Thats the stdrd operating temp for many boilers.
                    Yes but these are listed as tankless water heaters .

                    Mark
                    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                      Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                      Yes but these are listed as tankless water heaters .

                      Mark
                      A few years ago I installed a Rinnai as a boiler for an addition. Flipping through their website now I don't see the piping diagram I used. In fact, I dont see any space heating diagrams. I wonder if they don't recommend that anymore. Only a couple of models were certified for space heating. There were some special piping requirements. Needed to be primary/secondary setup, high dollar pump for the primary side and strainers.

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                      • #41
                        Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        Since most of you seem to have only the installer's perspective on tankless, I'll give just one case from the customer's end.
                        I had a tankless Takagi installed in my mom's house. My favorite sub recommended them because of how long much longer Asia has been using tankless than we have (I was clueless, I saw wood).
                        Anyway, a year after install I ordered her utility records from the local gas company. She averaged over $40 savings per month.
                        Since she paid $1400 for the unit & install, and a tank style would have been around $400, that $1000 difference will be paid for in two years use.
                        She lives alone in a small house. It seems as though that's where tankless are most beneficial - low use households.
                        Although, after all I've read from you guys, I'll tell her to bank that extra savings each month into a fund to pay for the service/replacement that she'll need in a few years!

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                        • #42
                          Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                          The company I work for did this house. I don't remember off hand the model these heaters were, sorry.

                          Proud To Be Union!!

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                          • #43
                            Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                            I would not of wanted to be the fellow to drill through that wall 5 times.
                            Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                            • #44
                              Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                              Originally posted by Dairylander View Post
                              Since most of you seem to have only the installer's perspective on tankless, I'll give just one case from the customer's end.
                              I had a tankless Takagi installed in my mom's house. My favorite sub recommended them because of how long much longer Asia has been using tankless than we have (I was clueless, I saw wood).
                              Anyway, a year after install I ordered her utility records from the local gas company. She averaged over $40 savings per month.
                              Since she paid $1400 for the unit & install, and a tank style would have been around $400, that $1000 difference will be paid for in two years use.
                              She lives alone in a small house. It seems as though that's where tankless are most beneficial - low use households.
                              Although, after all I've read from you guys, I'll tell her to bank that extra savings each month into a fund to pay for the service/replacement that she'll need in a few years!
                              i have to seriously doubt those figures.

                              i have stated many times that my non winter gas bill is $15.00 a month. this is for 2 of us with a 18 year old 40 gallon gas water heater, gas dryer and gas, cook top. only standing pilot is the water heater.

                              so even if i don't use anything else in the house , (dryer, cook top) my savings could only be $15.00 max and that's without using any hot water.

                              is her water heater strictly for domestic use/ bathing, cleaning? or is it for space heating too?

                              your gas prices are either sky high or mine are dirt low?

                              but i do know that a 40 gallon heater out here cost $463.00 just for the heater. plus tax thanks squamd. (southern calif. air quality management district) new ultra low nox heaters.

                              a tankless is approx. $1000. cost plus installation (venting, gas line) to replace.

                              so your $1400 sounds way low and your $40.00 gas savings sounds way high. at least from my perspective.

                              rick.
                              phoebe it is

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                              • #45
                                Re: I'm going to daisy chain TWO on demand heaters!!!!!!!!!!!!

                                Originally posted by Aaron91 View Post
                                The company I work for did this house. I don't remember off hand the model these heaters were, sorry.

                                arron, interesting that they ran medium pressure gas, but didn't have to vent the gas regulators. also i see a small electric water heater, is that for your circ. line? are all these heaters connected to a common 3/4'' or 1'' cpvc line?

                                i was under the impression that pex and cpvc needed to be 18'' from the heaters?

                                is this for both domestic heating and space heating? or do they use a lot of hot water?

                                rick.
                                phoebe it is

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