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  • #61
    Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
    This whole thread got interesting..I just hope we didn't baffle the poor O/P !
    Originally posted by rcatty View Post
    ok guys, so what is the bottom line ???? Check valves, ball valves, bibs....i'm a layperson....help !!
    See...we confused the poor fella.

    rcatty, we're going back and forth about the correct way to have this line piped so that ALL fixtures receive an equal amount of hot recirculation, along with resolving the sediment issue....the fact the recirc line splits throws a lil' wrench in the plans.
    Bottom line, there needs to be two major things...a way to control each of the splits (valves to semi close to inhibit flow on one or the other), and a way to keep the recirc lines from allowing sediment from the borttom of the tanks to get to the fixtures (one way check valves).

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    • #62
      Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

      I can appreciate the difficulty here. My undestanding is that the ball valves are simple shut-off valves...is that correct? Where would they be positioned ?

      The check-valves are for backflow....where should they be positioned ?

      Finally the bib hose is to bled the system, where would that go ?

      Thank you

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      • #63
        Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

        Read Drtyhands post above regarding the three items.
        Mindful the check valve(s) have to be installed horizontally on your setup. That makes it difficult to cover both sets of lines because available space on horizontal is limitied..you might consider putting one on each side near the split that feeds into the tank drains.
        You also need a ball valve, with a drawoff (drain) above the ball valve, because air will build up in the upper portion of the recirc lines and cause it to cease flowing (no pump to push the air down..the only force that moves the recirc flow is lighter hot water rising above cold which falls back to the lower drains on the tanks)

        Finally, you need a way to control flow where the recirc splits...the flow will favor the shortest split, which is likely why the only side that seems to work is the side nearest the heaters.
        Last edited by DuckButter; 01-07-2008, 05:13 PM.

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        • #64
          Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

          Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
          Balancing valves this is the second time you guys have brought up the fact that you want them.There is only one loop/zone from what I can see.We do not have a pump,and a tee off one return line feeding two heaters.What is the theory behind the valves.

          I have seen a plumber try to fix his mistake by putting valves on a one pump-two loop system.He was not having success last we spoke.

          You guys work with gravity more on the East Coast,what's the skinny
          Unless I'm insane (very likely), there is a split.
          on a split loop flow will always favor the path of least resistance.

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          • #65
            Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

            is the "draw off drain" the bib valve that the other fellow was talking about....to bled the lines?

            What valve or mechanism is being used to "balance " the lines, so that the side that works is balanced to jump start the other side ?


            How close can the check valves get to the point of entry at the drain discharge where the recirl lines connect to the drain spigot ?

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            • #66
              Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

              Originally posted by rcatty View Post
              is the "draw off drain" the bib valve that the other fellow was talking about....to bled the lines?
              Yes

              Originally posted by rcatty View Post
              What valve or mechanism is being used to "balance " the lines, so that the side that works is balanced to jump start the other side ?
              Seperate ball valves on each line after the split

              Originally posted by rcatty View Post
              How close can the check valves get to the point of entry at the drain discharge where the recirl lines connect to the drain spigot ?
              Anywhere, as long as on the horizontal...but let the others chime in on that one.

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              • #67
                Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                The two lines join about 15 linear feet from the tanks. I don't understand how the water from one line can flow into th etee that joins the other. If there is water in the second line would not it block or prevent water from comming into the line from the other recirculating line ?

                On the other hand, on the side that is working properly there are several lines feeding into one line and that works ok. In other words fixture one has instant hot water, and so does fixtures 2-5. So room temperature water has to be returning giving me instant hot water. Hence several lines are working together without any "balancing" of the system (at least that I am aware of).

                I suspect the second poorly, working line is a victim of lack of "good gravity". That line has a super long horizontal run from one side of the house to the other, before it makes a 90 degree turn, run another 15 horizontal feet before it meets the recirlulating line from the "good" side. Mind you at the point where it meets the other line, the recirl line from the tank is hot...thus you have "backflow" running all the way up there ( a good 15 linear feet). Under those circumstances, the hot water has to be blocking the flow of the room temp water trying to return. The hot water then flows up the tee, now on the route of the good line.

                Frankly, I don't see how any of this works given the hot water back flow. When the hot backflow water meets the room temp return water what happens? Apparently, the room temp water finds it way to the bottom of the tank, overcoming the hot water backflow?

                I'm confused?

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                • #68
                  Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                  The ball valves; are they going up the system, after the two lines split off and go to their respectives sides of the house (aproximately 15 linear feet) , or at the immediate vertical pipes right after the tie in to the drain valves ?

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                  • #69
                    Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                    The bib valve would be placed "ahead" of the ball valve further up the lines toward the fixture?

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                    • #70
                      Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                      The water in a water heaters tank is hotter on top, colder on bottom.
                      That temp difference should, in theory, be enough to trigger a flow in a gravity system.

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                      • #71
                        Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                        So how did it turn out R.C.?

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                        • #72
                          Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                          i'm waiting on a plumber to come over and take a look....i'll update you as soo as I have his input....thanx for all your help

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                          • #73
                            Re: confusing recirculating hot water/sediment

                            You sure made his job easy.Tell the Plumber to send the check to the Ridgid tool company,we have a bar-b-que to finance.

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