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  • #46
    Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

    I would certainly like to see the rational for a "flat vent".

    Mark
    "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

    I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      the job looked very clean, but the flat vent is not legal. and there was a simple way to fix it without too much more work. except you would have had to trash some glued fittings.
      Thanks for the compliments Rick, but where were those suggestions when I was actually doing the job?
      I would have welcomed any alternatives to the method, more importantly when I mentioned I was going to cut out the previous version of the flat vents because they were not rolled enough that would have been a great time to offer up the "correct" method.

      Alas however here I am on the other side of the inspection where it is a little too little....a little too late.

      Hopefully, this system will work for many years trouble free, again thanks for all the kind words.....if it sounds like I am being a little less than enthusiastic about your response.........it's probably because I am.
      I wont pull any punches........seems like you wont either.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post

        i still feel the flat is an issue. it is required to be on a 45 or greater angle.

        i would install a cleanout on the 2'' vent and hope the inspector is not a real plumbing inspector. if that line ever plugs due to a stoppage, you'll have no functioning vent.

        you can never have enough cleanouts

        now if you don't believe me, then you don't believe joey either. (pictures).

        rick.

        Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
        yes it will in theory. but not in code

        it too is considered flat and when the toilet vent plugs, the lav draining can create a negative pressure and siphon the toilet trap.

        your job is as good as any homeowner or plumber so far keep up the great work

        rick.
        this is from this thread, now i have to search the prior thread you wrote about.

        a simple way is to run your main 3'' towards the wall of where the vent is and at that point you can easily roll up a 3'' 1/8th bend/ 45 with a lo heel outlet and another 45 up on the 2'' vent. can't post nice drawings like you, but it's not too late to fix it. just test it for yourself and call it a day. you are allowed a 6' dirty arm on that toilet from the flange to the vent. all you're gaining in elevation is the c/l of a 3'' st 45. it should still fit under the concrete.

        i will look back on your other thread for more told you so

        rick.

        http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/sho...t=15142&page=4 please see post 33 and 36.

        it still can be fixed if you want to. half the guys here were concerend about the flat vent, half not.

        remember a combination inspector is not the sharpest tool in the shed. a jack of all trades and a master of none. no different here with our combination inspectors.
        Last edited by PLUMBER RICK; 01-16-2008, 01:58 AM. Reason: second link
        phoebe it is

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        • #49
          Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

          I wash my hands of the whole deal. You ask for advice and then go about doing it wrong anyway. Real plumbers don't make excuses and we don't plumb illegally because of cost. And I dont give two cents for the inspectors pass. Just because the inspector passed it does'nt mean it's right. I'ts up to the "plumber" to do the job right. You say you want something that will last for years without problems, well I'm here to tell ya the vent will be plugged up within 5 years. Flat vents are illegal.
          sigpic

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          • #50
            Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

            The job looks very nice for a DIY and better than some I have seen by so-called plumbers. The system as installed will work but there are things I would have done differently. If I was the inspector I would have turned the job down. I would have had him run the vent up an interior wall and eliminated a few bends between cleanouts.

            Mark
            "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

            I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

              A low heel 90,would be legal in Ca. ,and allowed the vent to raise in the wall,I believe.
              Now a SF inspector would have failed this as Mark said. They are mostly ex plumbers [ABOUT 20 OF THEM] only inspecting plumbing,and know the trade. When You mentioned The inspector busted You on the cores,that told Me something. Chances are The inspector is an ex carpenter ,that inspects all the trades,or a book taught Guy. Not as knowageable. I'm happy You passed.
              Please don't take this as a diss. Tool
              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                I'm not sure he had the fall for a low-heal ninety. However, it appears the new line is passing under at least one interior wall which he could have installed his wye under. As a matter of fact he could have used a 2X6 wall and installed his cleanout there as well.

                Mark
                "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                  Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                  I would certainly like to see the rational for a "flat vent".

                  Mark
                  Here in Canada the NPC prohibits any portion of a drain to be in an exterior wall, so flat venting is acceptable, and sometimes the only option. ie. A kitchen sink on an exterior wall, under a window. I avoid using flat vents as much as possible, it is nice to have the option though. Installed correctly I don’t think flat vents are that bad. Obviously,a horizontal wet vent or circuit vent is preferred, and a continous waste and vent, ideal. AAV (only Oatleys’ 40FU AAV is accepted by the NPC) are acceptable on island sinks in new construction and in certain situations in renos/addons. I think an AAV is a good alternative to an island vent.
                  You will never expand your mind, if you do not challenge your beliefs.

                  By the reading of this post, you acknowledge and agree that the poster shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any content contained herein.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                    NHMaster, I decided to look it up and post the source on Mass code for flat vents From CMR 248:

                    10.16: Vents and Venting
                    (3) Prohibited Venting.
                    (a) Combination Waste and Vent. A combination waste and vent system shall not be used unless no other system is possible or practicable, and only then after Special Permission is granted by the Board. See 248 CMR 10.16(15)(a)
                    (b) Crown Venting Limitation. No vent shall be installed within two pipe diameters of the trap weir.
                    (c) Extension of Horizontal Drain. The extension or continuation of a horizontal soil or waste drain pipe shall not serve as a vent, except:
                    1. when permitted under wet venting 248 CMR 10.16(7), or
                    2. when a fixture waste of not more than two fixture units is connected to the vertical extension of the extended horizontal piping.
                    Not intended to be argumentative, just wanted to clarify that MA code doesn't just let us put flat vents in wherever we want, there are very limited conditions.
                    Wet vents are required to have a min 2" diameter, with a 1 F.U. lav connected to it.
                    There are also BOW vents, but they require local permission and usually locals want everything in 2".

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                      NHMaster, I decided to look it up and post the source on Mass code for flat vents From CMR 248:

                      10.16: Vents and Venting
                      (3) Prohibited Venting.
                      (a) Combination Waste and Vent. A combination waste and vent system shall not be used unless no other system is possible or practicable, and only then after Special Permission is granted by the Board. See 248 CMR 10.16(15)(a)
                      (b) Crown Venting Limitation. No vent shall be installed within two pipe diameters of the trap weir.
                      (c) Extension of Horizontal Drain. The extension or continuation of a horizontal soil or waste drain pipe shall not serve as a vent, except:
                      1. when permitted under wet venting 248 CMR 10.16(7), or
                      2. when a fixture waste of not more than two fixture units is connected to the vertical extension of the extended horizontal piping.
                      Not intended to be argumentative, just wanted to clarify that MA code doesn't just let us put flat vents in wherever we want, there are very limited conditions.
                      Wet vents are required to have a min 2" diameter, with a 1 F.U. lav connected to it.
                      There are also BOW vents, but they require local permission and usually locals want everything in 2".
                      Where flat venting is permitted are you require to include a cleanout in the vent?

                      Mark
                      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

                      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                        Also on flat venting,don't You have to go up 1 size on vent pipe? That would require a 3" for that toilet,right. Hey not bad for a carpenter,Huh?
                        I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                          Flat vents in all the older homes I've replaced piping in are always 2/3'rds or completely clogged, restricting the air pathway it was designed for. It takes numerous backups over a period of years.

                          Plumbing is to be installed to operate error-free and non-fouling.

                          That picture looked like a lot of work; I'd rather dig out my own bone marrow than to pick up a shovel these days.
                          Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                          • #58
                            Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                            Hey there Ducky I am also familiar with Mass code, though I let my mass license go years ago. You are indeed correct about the limitations on the flat vent in Ma. I remember trying to get the plumbing inspector in cambridge to let one pass back in the 70's. He did'nt.
                            I'm happy to see that Mass still requires 2" on a wet vent. As you may know, the new IPC will let 1 1/2 go for one fixture. A crime I say.
                            It seems that as the years go by, the code gets easier and easier. Almost like they're trying to dumb it down.
                            Damn it, we are Professionals. Licensed, educated, trained and highly skilled. We don't need dumming down, we need respect.

                            Rant, Rant, Rant....... I'm ok now
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                              You guys are breaking My heart! My old home was ARLINGTON MASS. Grand dad was a cambridge cop 1880
                              I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: I think i'm ready for INSPECTION ! - pics

                                Originally posted by ToUtahNow View Post
                                Where flat venting is permitted are you require to include a cleanout in the vent?

                                Mark
                                The only two flat vents regularly installed are wet vents, which are generally the lav drain thats been sized up to 2"...under floors, they can be snaked from the lav trap if necessary.

                                Bow vents are less common, but we never put c/o's of any type in concealed locations.

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