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  • Plumbing code question

    I had a plumbing inspection today on my project and the inspector dinged me because there wasn't a sleeve through the foundation wall where the plumbing sub ran a standard 3" waste out of the house and into the grinder. We core drilled a 4" hole through a 12" thick foundation wall and we ran the ABS pipe through that but it was still a tight fit.
    Mr. Plumbing inspector said he would allow the pipe to be wrapped in that blue sill seal stuff if you know what that is(http://www.dow.com/styrofoam/na/res-.../sill_seal.htm). But he wouldn't allow me to squirt some expanding spray foam in there.
    I've been doing this stuff for 27 years and the plumber on site has been doing it for at least 20 and his boss has been in the business forever too and none of them has ever had to do this. I even called a side sewer guy and asked him if he's ever had to run a waste in a sleeve and he said no too.
    To Mr. Plumbing inspectors credit he did show me a code book that had a section about sleeves but he didn't let me look at it long enough to determine what materials were suitable or if it was applicable in my application so I have no idea what book he was looking in or a code number to cross reference anything.
    The upshot is that unless I can't stuff/wrap that pipe with blue sill seal all the way through the core'd hole I'm going to have to remove all the plumbing in the slab that we just put in, call back the core driller and bore a larger hole. But to do that I have to remove all the sewer hook ups to the grinder pump outside the bldg because we can't get the core drill in there with all that sewer piping in the way. We're easily talking 2 friggin grand to do it that way.
    This is in part a b1tch and moan but also to ask if anybody has any free links to the latest 2006 Uniform Plumbing Code online. I don't want to spring a bunch of money for the book.
    Attached is a pic of the location of the grinder and about where it comes out of the building. As I look in the pic you can't really see anything about the waste line so basically disregard the pic. I attached it before I realized it didn't show much.
    Anyway if you have a link I would appreciate it.
    BjR
    - Attachments follow -
    North_wall_exterior_details_and_grinder_resize.JPG

  • #2
    Re: Plumbing code question

    We go by IPC in VA so no help to you there but if you're in the business, you need to keep a current codebook on site. Things might have changed in 20 years when your plumber first started plumbing.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Plumbing code question

      Originally posted by BjR View Post
      I had a plumbing inspection today on my project and the inspector dinged me because there wasn't a sleeve through the foundation wall where the plumbing sub ran a standard 3" waste out of the house and into the grinder. We core drilled a 4" hole through a 12" thick foundation wall and we ran the ABS pipe through that but it was still a tight fit.
      Mr. Plumbing inspector said he would allow the pipe to be wrapped in that blue sill seal stuff if you know what that is(http://www.dow.com/styrofoam/na/res-.../sill_seal.htm). But he wouldn't allow me to squirt some expanding spray foam in there.
      I've been doing this stuff for 27 years and the plumber on site has been doing it for at least 20 and his boss has been in the business forever too and none of them has ever had to do this. I even called a side sewer guy and asked him if he's ever had to run a waste in a sleeve and he said no too.
      To Mr. Plumbing inspectors credit he did show me a code book that had a section about sleeves but he didn't let me look at it long enough to determine what materials were suitable or if it was applicable in my application so I have no idea what book he was looking in or a code number to cross reference anything.
      The upshot is that unless I can't stuff/wrap that pipe with blue sill seal all the way through the core'd hole I'm going to have to remove all the plumbing in the slab that we just put in, call back the core driller and bore a larger hole. But to do that I have to remove all the sewer hook ups to the grinder pump outside the bldg because we can't get the core drill in there with all that sewer piping in the way. We're easily talking 2 friggin grand to do it that way.
      This is in part a b1tch and moan but also to ask if anybody has any free links to the latest 2006 Uniform Plumbing Code online. I don't want to spring a bunch of money for the book.
      Attached is a pic of the location of the grinder and about where it comes out of the building. As I look in the pic you can't really see anything about the waste line so basically disregard the pic. I attached it before I realized it didn't show much.
      Anyway if you have a link I would appreciate it.
      BjR
      - Attachments follow -
      North_wall_exterior_details_and_grinder_resize.JPG
      I doubt you will find a link to any year UPC as IAPMO does not allow it. If there were free links no one would buy Code books.

      Sleeves are covered under 313.10.1 which refers to protecting all piping through concrete and masonry walls and concrete floors. There is however an exception in the same section which states sleeves are not required for openings which are drilled or bored. It is possible the inspector believes the hole is too tight so he is trying to say the pipe is embedded but that would seems a stretch.

      Mark
      "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

      I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Plumbing code question

        I tend to agree with Utah, but here are a couple of things you might look at:

        1) Check the UBC for their provisons.

        2) Is the core hole above the exterior finish grade. If so, he might be considering this part of tue exterior wall and and it would have to be sealed.

        3) How come your plumber doesn't own a current code book.

        4) Why do you have to remove all of the rough-in. Can't you cut out a section near the foundation, core drill, and then reconnect with mission couplings (or Ferncos for some of you guys)
        the dog

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Plumbing code question

          NOT UPC here, but any hole going through the foundation is supposed to be 1" larger annular than the pipe passing through.
          a residentail sewer main passing through the foundation is required to be 4" minimum, despite most being only 3"...meaning the hole needs to be 6+" minimum.
          We're also required to have a water tight seal around it for the obvious reason.
          Concrete expansion/contraction, as well as PVC expansion/contraction could crack the pipe if the hole is too tight....in theory.

          That's a basic in my state...can't imagine a guy with 20 years experience on new construction not knowing it, at least not here.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Plumbing code question

            IPC up here, but event the old BOCA code addressed the issue of sleeving. What we typically do is to drill a core big enough for 6" PVC to go through and use the 6" for the sleeve. (18" either side of the hole) Then we use two 6 x 4 Fernco couplings to make the seal.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Plumbing code question

              i don't do plumbing but i do a lot of piping and we put a sleeve in all block or poured walls even with black iron pipe . all pipes expand and contract and it makes for a better job
              Charlie

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              • #8
                Re: Plumbing code question

                NJ code is available online for viewing only.

                http://www.state.nj.us/dca/codes/
                Section 2.12 of the NSPC (which is used in only a couple states) covers sleeves, there
                is an exception that reads something like this:

                EXCEPTION: Sleeves are not required for pipes passing through drilled holes. Drilled holes
                must have a 1/2 inch minimum clearance around the pipe and any thermal insulation.



                Try here for WA codes
                http://www.sbcc.wa.gov/pages/code.html#viewing_online
                Last edited by Bob D.; 02-02-2008, 11:17 PM.
                ---------------
                Light is faster than sound. That's why some people seem really bright until you hear them speak.
                ---------------
                “If I had my life to live over again, I'd be a plumber.” - Albert Einstein
                ---------
                "Its a table saw.... Do you know where your fingers are?"
                ---------
                sigpic http://www.helmetstohardhats.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Plumbing code question

                  All piping through concrete foundations/ block/ footers must be sleeved 2 pipe sizes larger then pipe being used. A 4" line would need a 6" sleeve.

                  This is true everywhere.

                  IPC 305.3 says you must allow for expansion, contraction, and structural settlement.

                  Some areas even require foam or caulking inside the sleeve. Or even link seal in some cases.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Plumbing code question

                    Sorry ,but You're making a big deal outa this.In a heartbeat I woulda cut out the plastic ,used one of My roto hammers,enlarged the hole from both sides. installed a sleeve ,set in hydraulic cement. re-plumbed ,and called in. I'm 65 years old . I woulda done it all My self ,without a laborer. Maybe this is why I'm in great shape. Sorry,I'm old school . Like Niki says "JUST DO IT . Good luck Tool
                    I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Plumbing code question

                      Jury's in....looks like unanimous verdict on 2 pipe sizes larger (1" annular) just about anywhere.
                      Still think it's weird a guy with 20 years wouldn't know that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Plumbing code question

                        Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                        Jury's in....looks like unanimous verdict on 2 pipe sizes larger (1" annular) just about anywhere.
                        Still think it's weird a guy with 20 years wouldn't know that.

                        Before we make this a universal truth, no one has shown me where it is required in California (a UPC/UBC state)
                        the dog

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