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  • Freeze kits

    I need to change the main water shutoff inside my 6-plex. Right now theres a foot of frost in the ground and 10 inches of snow on top of that. The water company gave me a North location of where the curb box was, but they didnt have a E-W location. I spent about a half hour yesterday trying to find it but didnt have any luck.

    The valve inside is about 18 inches off the concrete slab in the basement. The service is 1" copper and the valve is sweat. I'm considering buying or renting a freeze kit so I can accomplish this task.

    Obviously Im a little concerned about something going wrong with the process, and not knowing where the curb box is, there'd be no way to shut the water off in the event the freeze kit failed.

    I was wondering who has used one, and what is a safe distance away from where you are freezing, to sweat? As a last resort, I have considered a 1" compression coupling. I have done that once before on the fly in an emergency situation.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Re: Freeze kits

    I don't use freeze kits much but I have used them much closer than 18" to my solder joint. My advice is put a new valve on top of the old and wait til spring to remove the old one once you find the curb box. The risk of failure is too high.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Freeze kits

      HOLY CRAP! On the fly inside. I've done plenty in the hole but never inside.
      If you end up doing it on the fly PLEASE set up the video camera. I would love to see that.
      Around here the water dept is responsible for their curb stops. So if you need it off they do it for a fee ($25 or something). If they have a hard time finding the curb stop or it needs to be replaced then they take care of it.
      INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
      Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Freeze kits

        yeah, I would let the water company turn it off, I broke one the other day, going back to the on position, scared the crap out of me....usually they make us pay for it.

        the city sent out 5 guys total, to turn 2 mains off in the street and 3 guys to unscrew a compression fitting angle flat head shut off.

        the guy was very nice and didn't charge me.

        I would try to get the water dept to come out, imagine having to dig 4' to get to the shut off??? deep over there in them parts, I am sure.

        As for the freeze kits, I have used the ridgid, no problems as long as there is no water flowing at all, I have gotten as close as 12", probably wouldn't go any closer then that though.

        always test before you totally cut through the line, in this case remove part of the old valve that you can screw on if the water isn't off, or if you have a jet sweat, they can hold up to 60 psi.
        sigpic

        Robert

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Freeze kits

          Use a CO2 kit, and leave it running while you sweat the joint. It'll be fine.

          Even better, use a propress and a propress valve. Even if water starts coming thru, it won't matter.

          You can crimp on a new valve in the open position with water flowing full bore. It gets awfully wet, but crimp it, and then shut the valve off.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Freeze kits

            Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
            always test before you totally cut through the line, in this case remove part of the old valve that you can screw on if the water isn't off, or if you have a jet sweat, they can hold up to 60 psi.
            http://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11709
            Negative on 60 psi ghostrider.
            Buy cheap, buy twice.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Freeze kits

              Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
              That's a huge 10-4

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Freeze kits

                Originally posted by Ruudacguy View Post
                I need to change the main water shutoff inside my 6-plex. Right now theres a foot of frost in the ground and 10 inches of snow on top of that. The water company gave me a North location of where the curb box was, but they didnt have a E-W location. I spent about a half hour yesterday trying to find it but didnt have any luck.

                The valve inside is about 18 inches off the concrete slab in the basement. The service is 1" copper and the valve is sweat. I'm considering buying or renting a freeze kit so I can accomplish this task.

                Obviously Im a little concerned about something going wrong with the process, and not knowing where the curb box is, there'd be no way to shut the water off in the event the freeze kit failed.

                I was wondering who has used one, and what is a safe distance away from where you are freezing, to sweat? As a last resort, I have considered a 1" compression coupling. I have done that once before on the fly in an emergency situation.

                Thanks
                Take the advice of the plumbers above. Cutting into that water line in the basement without an isolation valve is insane.

                I would suggest putting pressue on the supplier to locate their meter.
                the dog

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Freeze kits

                  Thanks for the replies, guys. Unfortunately the curb box is mine. I went round and round with the water company last week. They will come out and 'attempt' to locate the stop as a courtesy, but in these conditions they pretty much told me I'm on my own.

                  I bought this building as a foreclosure. While it was boarded up, it was broken into and some "urban mining" took place. I replaced the downstairs laundry piping and valves and found another leak after I turned the water back on. The next time I turned the valve off, the stem just kept turning. It must have broken internally. The 1976 gate valve felt great too. So right now my water is off and I cant really do much until I get all the supply and waste tested.

                  Its supposed to snow everyday this week so locating the stop outside is going to be next to impossible. I see the freeze kit as my only option right now.

                  Propress is an excellent idea. I think I'll try to find one of those.

                  Theres no way in hell Im gonna do this one on the fly. The one I did do on the fly was an empty slab house that had the supply line kinked over at the floor and it was already leaking. I busted up the concrete and straightened out a piece the best I could to get the compression coupling on. I got a little wet, but I didnt melt.

                  Thanks again

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Freeze kits

                    i own all the different freeze kits both co2 to 4'' and ridgid both 2000 and 2500 models. what can i say


                    the co2 is -109 so it is faster than the electric models. but nothing will freeze moving water. you also need a foot or so of space to solder. and only inches for propress. propress is the ideal combination for pipe freezing

                    also i would use a "tiny tim" hack saw and cut a nick in the pipe downstream to test if your not sure. or open a faucet to test. have a hose clamp and rubber handy with the nick.

                    i actually used a bolt cutter on a 3/4'' line to once crimp the line shut. it worked great and then i froze the broken line.

                    they do make a special very expensive valve that works on live copper lines.

                    google "add a valve"

                    don't risk it in a basement unless you have no other options.

                    rick.
                    phoebe it is

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Freeze kits

                      Ruudacguy I feel your pain. Around here there are a few small towns with private water co. that will only come out for a mark out. I did one a few years ago using my Ridgid Super-Freeze 2000. It was 3/4" copper and the gate valve was about 12" from the inside of the basement wall I put the freezing heads right up against the wall and let the machine do it's job till I was confident it was frozen I then removed the bonnet from the gate valve and then slowly pried up the gate and when I was 100% positive it had worked I cut the valve and sweated on a new ball valve. It worked beautifully but I did sweat bullets. If I had to do it today I would use Propress instead of sweating. Ohh.. obviously have everything prepted and ready to go. Good luck to yaa.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Freeze kits

                        For some reason I vaguely remember using a crimp kit on a rolled copper service line. After crimping I used comp couplings to make the repair and then used a sort of re rounding tool in the kit to open the line back up. I could be way off base here but I swear I remember doing this. I'll call my old boss and ask him if they still have the kit (and name of it).
                        Normally when we broke a service line I would "crimp" it with two hammers. Get everything ready for the repair, shut off the main, make repair, then turn the main back on. Or just do it on the fly if need be but due to safety reasons and lack of gate valves this was not an option.

                        You could call water dept and tell them your closing up the house for the winter so you need them to take their meter out. Make the repair then tell them "oops, sorry about that. change of plans, I guess we're staying after all."
                        INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                        Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Freeze kits

                          Originally posted by Gene Bickford View Post
                          For some reason I vaguely remember using a crimp kit on a rolled copper service line. After crimping I used comp couplings to make the repair and then used a sort of re rounding tool in the kit to open the line back up. I could be way off base here but I swear I remember doing this. I'll call my old boss and ask him if they still have the kit (and name of it)."

                          gene you are correct there are crimping vices for soft copper and also for hdpe plastic.

                          wheeler rex makes an assortment of them.

                          i've never tried the copper one, but i do own a hdpe one.

                          rick.
                          phoebe it is

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Freeze kits

                            Hey Rick, do you have any first hand experience with that 'Add a Valve' set up?
                            Proud To Be Union!!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Freeze kits

                              Yes. I just talked with my old top guy...err Girl, Tina AKA mothah(thats mother in Mainer speak), and I'm not crazy after all.
                              Your right Rick, it is Wheeler Rex. It was on the tip of my tongue but all that could come to mind was REED for some reason.
                              It worked pretty well, some water still seeped through but a very controllable amount that was WAAAAAY easier then doing it on the fly.
                              INSIGHT PIPE is now Maine Drain Serving most of ME with no charge for travel! 207-431-6232 is nolonger a working # our NEW # is 207-355-1476
                              Sewer main snaking (roto rooting). Sink clogs. Sewer backup. Pipe inspection/locating. No Dig trenchless repair. Root clog removal.We are NOT to replace your local Plumber, as we do not do plumbing. WE ARE YOUR DRAIN CLEANING EXPERTS!!! www.sewermaine.com waterville winslow bangor augusta skowhegan fairfield pittsfield oakland

                              Comment

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