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Ethical/legal plumbing question

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  • #16
    Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

    3. Chill out?

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    • #17
      Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

      Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
      3. Chill out?

      I concur.

      Just stand in front of the mirror and practice your quizzical look for when you might need it...

      "Plummin'? I don' know nuthin' 'bout no plummin....."
      I'm on "The List" and I love it!!

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      • #18
        Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

        Originally posted by tinmack View Post
        I concur.

        Just stand in front of the mirror and practice your quizzical look for when you might need it...

        "Plummin'? I don' know nuthin' 'bout no plummin....."
        "You talkin' to me?...You talkin' to me?"

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        • #19
          Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

          It depends on what "out of code" means and how out of code is it? Also, which code?

          For example where I live there are lots of cases where the fact the building was built on old codes, allows home owners to get away with murder as far as retaining things that abide by old codes (mind you most older codes aren't too bad compared to todays and in some cases even better in my opinion) - I guess some sort of grandfather clause. Some things build on own codes won't be up to code today is what I am saying.

          But quite honestly I think if you had anyone who was willing to pay to get all the proper permits and get things done properly, I highly doubt they wouldn't want things brought up to code or at least if you pointed out to them why it was out of code (if it could pose a problem later) I don't see why the average home owner wouldn't want it fixed (unless it was majorly costly - then it becomes an issue).

          Now if it were someone running a flipping business I quite honestly would have no problem letting the inspector know the situation if they turned down fixing it properly (and if the inspector has the power to make them change it - sometimes this isn't always the case). I would also point out to the person flipping it that they could be resposnible if this poses a problem for the next owner.

          There are lots of variables - I think I would need a more specific situation and have to be there to make my decision but I don't want to be tied to any sort of sketchy work and I feel I owe it to protecting home owners.

          The foreman I work under - we work for a company that plumbs high end homes - every now and then gets the "go out on his own" bug. One of the reason he gets this bug every now and then is because he gets a little sick and tired of these rich people who don't appreciate his quality work - I guess that's to be expected. He likes the concept of doing high quality work for good everyday average people and fixing things so they can "go to sleep at night and not have to worry." I guess I would say I'm of the same persuasion. I like fixing peoples problems and I like the reward you get for doing so on top of the money obviously. It comes down to helping people in the end and I'd hate to know myself overlooking or not paying attention to things can cause someone problems down the road.

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          • #20
            Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

            Thanks again. (My chill out comment was directed at Dunbar.)
            To tell the truth, a lot of my actions are driven by money.
            For my kitchen, I have to move a radiator (which involves draining my oil-fired, forced hot water system -- a half day's work -- and then buying a new radiator) and then lowering my ceiling so I can run the vent pipe from the new sink location. Okay that's doable. But the bathroom (again, never part fo the permitting process, etc.) was the one that increased the cost substantially. Can't do it. So perhaps the title of this thread should never have been "ethical/Legal" but "dollars/cents." And believe me, I agree with most everyone here: namely, "Do it right." But if I can get away with it, I won't do it right; I can't afford to.

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            • #21
              Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

              as a non pro DIY guy, i would only add safety to the list of considerations. i have seen many plumbing installations that do not meet current codes but hasve worked well for years. but if its not safe, better bust the budget than be fiscally prudent in the hospital.
              there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

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              • #22
                Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                Originally posted by johneel View Post
                To tell the truth, a lot of my actions are driven by money.


                But if I can get away with it, I won't do it right; I can't afford to.


                I don't care how far people live from me, don't care what they do for a living or how many cans of peas they have in their cupboard.....


                I can point a line of questioning/make statements in general reply to conversations that make people sing like canaries.


                I'm not saying I'm good,

                I'm not bragging either,

                but there's gotta be something of an element that I keep seeming to draw like a magnet to steel.


                johneel do you feel better that you got that off your chest now, excluding the plumber from your personal agenda that

                it doesn't matter what he says, you won't fix it anyway.

                I'm waiving the consultation fee just this one time, one time only.


                Off to the pumper show I go
                Northern Kentucky Plumbers Twitter Feed | Plumbing Videos

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                • #23
                  Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                  Originally posted by johneel View Post
                  Thanks again. (My chill out comment was directed at Dunbar.)
                  To tell the truth, a lot of my actions are driven by money.
                  For my kitchen, I have to move a radiator (which involves draining my oil-fired, forced hot water system -- a half day's work -- and then buying a new radiator) and then lowering my ceiling so I can run the vent pipe from the new sink location. Okay that's doable. But the bathroom (again, never part fo the permitting process, etc.) was the one that increased the cost substantially. Can't do it. So perhaps the title of this thread should never have been "ethical/Legal" but "dollars/cents." And believe me, I agree with most everyone here: namely, "Do it right." But if I can get away with it, I won't do it right; I can't afford to.
                  as stated befor by dunbar he has an ape that eats at kfc and throws tatoes..... maybe work out a deal with him to pay his big monkey with food with kfc and tatoes!! i know what your saying bout the cash thing, its a tough call and ultimately yours.
                  Last edited by row; 02-16-2008, 12:05 AM. Reason: miss s[elling
                  if u cant bedazzle em with briliance, baffle em with bulls&*t

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                  • #24
                    Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                    Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                    Went through this identical situation not far from you in Somerville...homeowner asked what might happen if she decided to remodel the walls & floors in her bath.
                    I explained that if she had galvanized pipe exposed, the inspector might require she have it replaced while in the open.
                    She decided to not do it, the inspector did exactly what I thought he would.
                    She was doing a flip, he wasn't about to let her close the walls back up with guaranteed clogs & leaks for years to come.
                    It was her choice to open the walls.
                    Lord!, do I hate galvanized pipe.
                    This is my reminder to myself that no good will ever come from discussing politics or religion with anyone, ever.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                      I can point a line of questioning/make statements in general reply to conversations that make people sing like canaries.


                      What?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                        In a way, this thread makes me sick.

                        It brings a valid question up, if you do not have the money to fix suprises that pop up when you start remodeling, why start remodeling ??

                        I get customers here and there that have horribly bad sewers, what dot hey do.....well, it's to expensive,, I am gonna put a very nice driveway on top of it and forget about it. my driveway that sits on top of it is more important??

                        Don't you think in a few years that driveway may need to get ripped up, or portions of it when the sewer needs to be replaced or repaired??

                        You think just because the walls are going back up that everything will be forgotten about, you are dead wrong, wait until it springs a leak and your new bathroom has to be torn up??

                        People disregard plumbing and electrical work all the time, because they are more important of how the room "Looks" it's like having a brand new navigator in the driveway, with no engine.

                        Good luck and may carma come and get you when you stick the new owners with a problem, or when your new bathroom and kitchen are completed, and 2 weeks later you have a plumbing issue.
                        Last edited by westcoastplumber; 02-19-2008, 11:37 PM.
                        sigpic

                        Robert

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                        • #27
                          Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                          Resale value.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                            Hey, West Coast guy, I'm sorry you're sick. (And it's "karma" not carma.)
                            But here's the interesting thing -- and I think I made it very clear in my post, but maybe not. My renovation was and is focused on the kitchen. I saved cash to do it and am doing it with permits and by the book. I discovered the adjacent bathroom "problem" when I tore out a wall. (I was wrong to tear out the wall because it wasn't covered by the permit.)

                            But, again, if you read my post (and, again, I apologize if it wasn't clear), I'm unsure what the problem with the toilet is. It's apparently not vented correctly; that is, there is no vent stack and it doesn't tie into the exisiting vent stack. There's an accessory loop (like you see in an island sink) but that loop is capped at the end. The toilet fills correctly, flushes well, and doesn't give off an odor. So if it works, and it is not part of my remodel, and since I'm not flipping the house (there's no "resale" value) but plan to live in it forever, I'm going to leave it as is.

                            It poses an interesting question though, doesn't it? Hence the name of the thread. No need to get all bent out of shape about it.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                              Hey Johneel

                              We all feel pretty much the same as tradesmen.If we see something that needs improving we want to get it up to speed.We don't want to be involved in a down the road issue.Something like a neighbor writing down a phone number off the side of a van and giving it to an inspector or new homeowner.I've heard worse scenarios.People can be wierd.Nothing personal we just use the opportunity to voice our opinion for the masses who may read this down the road.For all we know some members may refer to this forum as advertising for potential clientell.Me,I have a life.Westcoast may have just drawn the perverbial short straw and felt the urge to put it out there.Today I could care less cause I am not working on your job.Tommorrow I may feel like airing it out.Some of us walk away from jobs where the shotcaller wants to flip over something.Not saying you are intentionally short sheeting someone.Just the way we generalize.Don't worry about it and good luck.

                              We as a whole don't have a problem helping out in all sorts of situations.So feel free to ask away if you have any other concerns.

                              Adam

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                              • #30
                                Re: Ethical/legal plumbing question

                                Oh............Karma
                                sigpic

                                Robert

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