Announcement Announcement Module
Collapse
No announcement yet.
energo again Page Title Module
Move Remove Collapse
X
Conversation Detail Module
Collapse
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • energo again

    does anyone have any familiarity with this product?
    http://energousa.com/content/product...ng-systems.cfm
    it seems to be aimed at regulating boiler water output temperature, much like costlier controls for commercial properties which sense outdoor air temp to determine boiler water temperature.
    there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

  • #2
    Re: energo again

    No direct knowledge of this product but would like to see more of these controls in the mainstream market

    If it's used for hydronic heat I'd have a few concerns about pump cycling and low boiler return temperatures.

    I like these for an outdoor reset control

    http://customer.honeywell.ca/honeywe...spx/AQ475A1004

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: energo again

      I have seen it though not used them as of yet. We install quite a few of the Beckett units and they work very well indeed for the money. My own boiler has the Taco control linked to a Taco zone controller and has truthfully cut my oil consumption by 15%
      Boiler re-set contols are nothing new both Taco and Enertrol had units in the 70's and Honeywell has had a version since the early 50's.
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: energo again

        I'm a tekmar indoor/outdoor kind of guy. My problem with the Energo is also low return temps ( really dont get a chance to do much condensing unfortunately ) and I really dont see how it could better the old indoor/outdoor system. Has installing an outdoor sensor really become that big of a hassle? Also it says only good on sustems up to 300k BTUH, which really doesn't touch most of my boiler work
        West Trail Mechanical Ltd
        Service. Commitment. Expertise.

        www.westtrailmechanical.ca

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: energo again

          plumberscrack...what are the issues surrounding pump cycling and low boiler return temperatures? and the link you provided sent me to an aquastat...is it a replacement for the boiler's existing aquastat or an add on to the existing aqustat and boiler controls? info appeciated.
          there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: energo again

            If your returns are coming back too cold you can install a by-pass loop from the feed to the return, controlled by a reverse aquastat, or better yet pipe the boiler with primary\secondary loop piping and that will solve the problem also
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: energo again

              Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
              better yet pipe the boiler with primary\secondary loop piping and that will solve the problem also
              Yep this is the prefered method of my installations

              Originally posted by FINER9998 View Post
              plumberscrack...what are the issues surrounding pump cycling and low boiler return temperatures? and the link you provided sent me to an aquastat...is it a replacement for the boiler's existing aquastat or an add on to the existing aqustat and boiler controls? info appeciated.
              No, not a replacement for boiler aquastat. Outdoor reset compensator. As temps outside lower, boiler supply temps rise reducing the amount of 'lag' in hydronic heat. The Honeywell weatherman is a proven system used for many years. Easy to install.

              As stated before, over time, lower return temps cause condensation which is corrosive to heat exchangers and burners resulting in poor combustion.

              I don't know anything about the Erego product so I guess to better help you we need to know what you are trying to accomplish with this product. They claim up to 30% fuel savings. If this was truley producing these numbers in the field and not just in the lab, it would be flooding the market. I can't help but to be skeptical of new products claiming results like that.

              What's the price of the Erego?
              Last edited by plumberscrack; 02-17-2008, 11:49 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: energo again

                30% is stretching it a bit, possible, but 10 to 15% is more realistic. We have been installing these for years now and pretty much include them on all new boiler installations and a good many change out's also. As I said before the technology is not new, it's been around since the 50's. It makes sense that if the outside temprature is around 40, there is no need to maintain a 200 degree boiler temp to heat the house. What these controls do is modulate the boiler temp based on outside temp and the heat load. Buderus, Viesman and many other higher end boilers include modulating controls as an option.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: energo again

                  PC...i am looking at ways to save fuel. energo claims savings in 10-15% range but unit is $545. it takes its cue re: temp conditions from a sensor on the line supplying hot water out of the boiler. in looking at the Honeywell unit you linked me to , it appears to do the same thing using an outdoor temp sensor, which would probably perform better, and it appears to be cheaper. if it is an add-on like the energo, i'd like to investigate it more thoroughly. do you have a link on the honeywell for the install instructions? i can't seem to get them to load. the site condition is in an 85 YO colonial, so there is little way to run new supply/return lines as the municipality frowns on pex or other flexible material. BTW, heating system is a 4 year old gas fired standing pilot hot water boiler feeding cast iron radiators in top floor and 2/3 of main floor. other 1/3 of main floor is copper baseboard and toekick heater in kitchen. lower level will soon be all copper baseboard. top level is on one thermostat, main level is on 2 thermostats (1 for CI, second for copper), lower level will have its own stat. thanks for the reply. again, comments appreciated.
                  there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: energo again

                    Beckett makes a unit with a wholesale cost of aroun $175.00. Very simple to install and they work quite well.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: energo again

                      Finer, good to see you have a newer boiler and still want to improve your energy savings even futher

                      If you weren't able to get the links to work try these:

                      http://customer.honeywell.ca/techlit...0s/68-0217.pdf

                      http://customer.honeywell.ca/techlit...0s/63-9586.pdf

                      http://customer.honeywell.ca/techlit...0s/63-9487.pdf

                      All your zone wiring and piping configurations are there as well

                      Pay close attention to the section covering boiler minimum temperature. This is my problem with the Energo system. That might be the right product if somehow your boiler was way oversized for the heat load. Hopefully yours isn't.

                      You mentioned you have a mixture of cast iron radiators and fintube baseboard. That's a problem, not a huge one but still a problem. They operate at different temperatures, cast iron operates at a lower temp. (around 30 degrees) than fintube. Depending on where the thermostats are located some areas could be over heated and others too cool. Is that a problem you are having? Not much you can do at this point other than throttle down the cast iron rad valves and keep the boiler temp up around 180-190 for the fintube, any lower than that they just arn't effective.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: energo again

                        PC...thanks for the reply. stilil can't get the links to load. don't know why. what are they supposed to tell me? my CI/finned baseboard distribution was covered in my last post. top floor of colonial is all CI w/separate stat on its own zone. basement will be all finned bb on separate zone with own stat. 1st flr (living area) is split...L/R and D/R are CI on separate stat and zone. Kitchen is finned copper bb on separate zone with own stat. each zone has it's own circulator and are controlled through Argo zone control relays (1-3zone and added single relay for the 4th zone). the kitchen has 5' of finned copper bb and a toekick heater. the kicker does a good job but the bb never really pumps out much heat. boiler water is set to 160 deg F.

                        would adding radiator mounted thermostats help control the CI temps? then, the water temp could be increased to 190 for more heat from finned BB without cooking CI areas.

                        or am i wasting my time trying to improve the efficiency of the boiler by controlling the water temp with either the Honeywell aquastat you mentioned or the Energo unit? comments are sincerely appreciated.
                        there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: energo again

                          Follow this link ...www.BeckettHM.com
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: energo again

                            Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                            Follow this link ...www.BeckettHM.com
                            Now I can't get this link from NHMaster to load

                            Finer,

                            The Honeywell links had mostly to do with installation and wiring/piping configurations. I didn't know if you were doing it yourself.

                            160 degree boiler water is fine for all cast iron but just won't pump the heat out for fintube. The Honeywell reset control would lower the water temp even more making fintube completely ineffective but it works great for cast iron. I would drop the idea of modifing the boiler controls.

                            I suggest turning the temp up to 190 like you said and throttling the cast rads down or invest in thermostatic radiator valves. Not much else you can do at this point.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: energo again

                              the beckett system appears to be ideally suited to my application. the boiler seems to be short cycling sometimes as the 160F water doesn't get the copper BB really warm. in reviewing the Beckett info, it seems to address multi zone systems with only a high limit control, like my hot water boiler with a Honeywell 8148E aquastat. by increasing boiler temp, there will be no affect to the CI zones, as all zones have Taco 218 universal flocheks. when a CI zone thermostat is satisfied, circulator stops and flochek keeps heat from migrating to CI zone. when copper BB needs heat sooner than a CI zone, the Becket heat manager should keep the burner from coming on sooner as heat is scavenged from the existing water. as water cools to 150F, if copper BB zone still requires heat, heat manager completes burner circuit and boiler fires. i wish you could view the beckett info. for under $200, it seems to provide better boiler control and utilization.

                              your comments on thermostatic radiator valves is appreciated, but wouldn't the CI areas having their own thernmostats be pretty much the same thing? all CI zones are separate from all copper BB zones both in terms of plumbing and control. as always, your insightful comments are sincerely appreciated.
                              there's a solution to every problem.....you just have to be willing to find it.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X