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  • #16
    Re: Venting advice

    Originally posted by tomot View Post
    NHMaster, as a plumber /educator you are probably aware that AAV's have been used
    in Europe for well over 20 years. In Europe most houses are well over 200 to 400 years old
    you simply don't get a permit for any restoration or renovation unless its from a University, much less open walls for venting.Thats why technology is able to supply other answers, in such cases. So please dont' be so harsh on your crew should they ever be caught installing one.

    But as usual in these forums, personal opinion by some takes precedence over those trying to
    provide helpful advice. Thanks for illuminating contribution!

    If you finished quoting the article you read from, you would have also read that they are to be used in lieu of a proper vent. It also said they are never to be used in the place of a mainline vent or main stack. Also please send us some picture of you're 500 hundred year old home. If you're plan all along was to install them then why wast any ones time.
    THE GLASS IS ALWAYS HALF FULL

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    • #17
      Re: Venting advice

      Originally posted by tomot View Post
      NHMaster, as a plumber /educator you are probably aware that AAV's have been used
      in Europe for well over 20 years. In Europe most houses are well over 200 to 400 years old
      you simply don't get a permit for any restoration or renovation unless its from a University, much less open walls for venting.Thats why technology is able to supply other answers, in such cases. So please dont' be so harsh on your crew should they ever be caught installing one.

      But as usual in these forums, personal opinion by some takes precedence over those trying to
      provide helpful advice. Thanks for illuminating contribution!
      Health standards are also radically different over those 20 years.
      Look at the dental work of the average English citizen.

      NhMasters state allows AAV's, yet he chooses not to use them, kudo's to him.
      My state doesn't allow them, period.
      As for the quality of the advice, you might request a full refund if not completely satisfied.

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      • #18
        Re: Venting advice

        When I start caring about how they do things in Europe it will be a cold day in hell. AAV's are a mechanical device, prone to failure and even more prone to being forgotten about and never serviced. Just because a bunch of politicians got bought off by manufacturers still does not make these pieces of crap a good thing. I will fight this fight till the bitter end. I am sick and tired of my Profession being constantly degraded by the hackers at the state house that seem hell bent on making it possible for any two bit scab to do plumbing. Year after year they come up with new ways and new interpretaions of the code, specificically designed to allow anyone with a pair of pump pliers to do plumbing.
        sigpic

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        • #19
          Re: Venting advice

          Here in N.H. we have a saying "anyone with a skill saw and a station wagon is a carpenter" How long before it's anyone with a pipe wrench and a pex tool is a plumber?
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: Venting advice

            Here, I have a saying: "Everybody with a hacksaw and a can of glue thinks they're a plumber."

            I think an AAV can be a useful solution sometimes. They're illegal here in homes but legal in "manufactured housing" since those do not fall under state code, but rather federal codes.

            But like many useful solutions, AAVs are not all that practical. Do they work? Sort of. They don't provide all the benefits of a vent, but they may keep a trap from siphoning.

            One of the considerations of an AAV should be ready accessibility - either beneath a cabinet or through a grille in the wall. I find it hard to imagine that anyone will check those AAVs in a crawlspace regularly to see if they're dumping sewage or leaking gas. Out of sight, out of mind as they say.

            Personally, if I had stucco, lath and plaster, I'd get rid of it. In fact, I did.

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            • #21
              Re: Venting advice

              Originally posted by Herk View Post
              Here, I have a saying: "Everybody with a hacksaw and a can of glue thinks they're a plumber."

              I think an AAV can be a useful solution sometimes. They're illegal here in homes but legal in "manufactured housing" since those do not fall under state code, but rather federal codes.

              But like many useful solutions, AAVs are not all that practical. Do they work? Sort of. They don't provide all the benefits of a vent, but they may keep a trap from siphoning.

              One of the considerations of an AAV should be ready accessibility - either beneath a cabinet or through a grille in the wall. I find it hard to imagine that anyone will check those AAVs in a crawlspace regularly to see if they're dumping sewage or leaking gas. Out of sight, out of mind as they say.

              Personally, if I had stucco, lath and plaster, I'd get rid of it. In fact, I did.
              Thanks for your observation, I don't want to check the AVV in the crawl space either.
              So they will be incorporated in a screened box on the outside wall.
              End of Story! .....happy plumbing!

              Lets hope you are not running and get elected to public office, so everyone with stucco and lath and plaster
              would be faced with its removal, because you did.

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              • #22
                Re: Venting advice

                So basically you're saying that elected officials should allow any hack that wants to do do sub standard work so they can get elected. If you're not going to spend the money or time to do it right why do it at all.? It's that same f-it attitude that was responsible for blowing up the space shuttle. You come on the site, ask your question and then justify your half assed solution to a group of LICENSED PROFESSIONALS who are'nt impressed with you, or your solution. If you're expecting a blessing you need to find a church. Do what you will. It's your house, your job and your money. Oh and don't forget to forget to get a permit either. I mean hell, why bother.
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Re: Venting advice

                  Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                  So basically you're saying that elected officials should allow any hack that wants to do do sub standard work so they can get elected. If you're not going to spend the money or time to do it right why do it at all.? It's that same f-it attitude that was responsible for blowing up the space shuttle. You come on the site, ask your question and then justify your half assed solution to a group of LICENSED PROFESSIONALS who are'nt impressed with you, or your solution. If you're expecting a blessing you need to find a church. Do what you will. It's your house, your job and your money. Oh and don't forget to forget to get a permit either. I mean hell, why bother.
                  beautifully written! as for this guy as they say in the land of the blind the man with one eye is king. alot of good advise wasted!

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                  • #24
                    Re: Venting advice

                    HAHAHAHA.............errrr, another thing that makes me sick...... someone who has a roll of duck tape and a tube of caulk, think they are a plumber, or the ones that fixed a leaking trap with rescue tape or tons of caulking or anyone that pushes pipe and fittings toghether or use compression fittings to fix a leak, this does not make you a plumber!!!

                    This trade is going down the drain, no one respects the trade, heck, if the owner does not respect his property, why should the service man??

                    Good luck........All you wise guy home owner suckers will be coming around and looking for good plumbers when there aren't any because all of you killed the trade.
                    Last edited by westcoastplumber; 02-25-2008, 07:33 PM.
                    sigpic

                    Robert

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                    • #25
                      Re: Venting advice

                      I wouldn't even venture to say our trade is in jeopardy.
                      We're online...where everything is free...so some think.
                      In other words, logistically, an online plumbing forum will attract handymen, slumlords and hacks like a free buffet to an overeaters anonymous convention.
                      The crochety old crab down the street that complains about everything thats wrong with the world, never once looking at himself, who's so cheap he shuts the lights off on halloween...comes online for his freebies.
                      The handyman that charges for household repairs to unsuspecting customers that don't realize a boiler isn't something you shouldn't install without a license or permits...gets his pointers online...but his rates are excellent!

                      There's the real world, where people in general respect knowledge, experience, laws & common sense ...an online forum just tends to attract the other ones.
                      Can't let myself forget that, and allow it to affect my attitude with my respectable customers.
                      Sometimes thats hard when, like that movie "Groundhog day", I see the same thing over and over.
                      People anonymously pop in, ask questions...ignore what they don't want to hear...or better yet, insult anyone who doesn't tell them what they want to hear.
                      Over and over and over.
                      Bill Murray was great in that movie.
                      Last edited by DuckButter; 02-26-2008, 06:56 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Venting advice

                        I carn`t beleave this joker "Tomot" he askes for advice from licenced plumbers who did their apprenticeships of hard yakka and then won`t take it tell him to bugger off.

                        Regards
                        Tony

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                        • #27
                          Re: Venting advice

                          AFM,
                          great Oz slang. What's "hard yakka" mean?

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                          • #28
                            Re: Venting advice

                            well said nhmaster. anyone that calls themselsves uber mensch has got to be a D. BAG i think its a rule.
                            Mike
                            Clark County Plumbing And Drain
                            www.plumbinginclarkcounty.com

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                            • #29
                              Re: Venting advice

                              Thanks. The guy even pm'd me to tell me what a miserable sob I am. I took it as a compliment.
                              sigpic

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                              • #30
                                Re: Venting advice

                                I think it's funny that in Massachusetts I can get a permit to do all of my own electrical work, and, being a mere handyman, possibly kill myself. But God forbid I try to pull a permit to move a sink in my kitchen. Totally illegal. God forbid I drop a wrench on my foot. (And please don't give me this line about plumbers being the saviors of Western Civilization and holding a higher rank in the world of professions than doctors because they helped bring us indoor plumbing.) I have to move a sink (yes, new venting) and a radiator (yes, an oil-fired hot water system) and the two bids I got came in at $3,700 each. I can run new copper lines for the sink. I can run a vent up through my attic and do the roofing so it doesn't leak. I can tie into exisiting plumbing, but I wouldn't even attempt to move the radiator. But, bottom line? I AM NOT ALLOWED to do any of that stuff, even though I can. And that's costing me thousands of dollars. I respect the profession, I do. But, my plumbing friends, you have the rest of us over the barrel.

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