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  • #16
    Re: For those that wonder why we care

    100% correct wrench. When I go to bad countries, locals beg for 2 things; money and water.
    Buy cheap, buy twice.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: For those that wonder why we care

      i'am all teary eyed. it is so true. i was on another site, and a home owner posted that he noticed. the gas gauge had fallen, 6 or 7 days after the inspection. he wanted to know if there was a leak. i said yes, another ''plumber'' said no there was no reason to worry. the gas pipping had passed the inspection. and that, all pipping systems loose pressure after awhile. due to , whatever b.s he was spoutting.
      i got back on the thread and said he]] no its leaking. i said to put 100 psi in the pipping. and make it sing. sence it is so small. plumber came back with , the gas is delivered at low psi, so that means. the pressure wont be high enough to make it leak. and besides it passed inspection. i blew my top . well the home owner listen to me. thank GOD. and had a plumbing co ti helium test the pipping. two weeks later, he posted that there was 3 leaks in the house. my comment, other than i am proud his family was not blowed up. is that the younger generation, of plumbers are lazy, and being taught wrong. or at least he was and is. I have never in 30 years of plumbing, tried to jerry rig gas. It is folks lives at steak. but some of the younger guys, only care that it takes to long to do it right. the boss will get mad, it takes to long. the boss will sure enough be mad, when a house blows up. and a family is dead. yes i am a plumber. and i am proud to be a plumber. i have a proud plumbers crack.
      sigpic
      30+ years as a plumber
      6 years in the Air Force

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      • #18
        Re: For those that wonder why we care

        Originally posted by frodo View Post
        i'am all teary eyed. it is so true. i was on another site, and a home owner posted that he noticed. the gas gauge had fallen, 6 or 7 days after the inspection. he wanted to know if there was a leak. i said yes, another ''plumber'' said no there was no reason to worry. the gas pipping had passed the inspection. and that, all pipping systems loose pressure after awhile. due to , whatever b.s he was spoutting.
        i got back on the thread and said he]] no its leaking. i said to put 100 psi in the pipping. and make it sing. sence it is so small. plumber came back with , the gas is delivered at low psi, so that means. the pressure wont be high enough to make it leak. and besides it passed inspection. i blew my top . well the home owner listen to me. thank GOD. and had a plumbing co ti helium test the pipping. two weeks later, he posted that there was 3 leaks in the house. my comment, other than i am proud his family was not blowed up. is that the younger generation, of plumbers are lazy, and being taught wrong. or at least he was and is. I have never in 30 years of plumbing, tried to jerry rig gas. It is folks lives at steak. but some of the younger guys, only care that it takes to long to do it right. the boss will get mad, it takes to long. the boss will sure enough be mad, when a house blows up. and a family is dead. yes i am a plumber. and i am proud to be a plumber. i have a proud plumbers crack.

        Not all younger plumbers are this way. I know some very good younger plumbers and am always impressed with their dedication.
        Anyone can tear a man down, few can build one up.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: For those that wonder why we care

          There are any number of things that you can do in a hurry. Gas piping ain't one of them.
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Re: For those that wonder why we care

            Originally posted by frodo View Post
            i'am all teary eyed. it is so true. i was on another site, and a home owner posted that he noticed. the gas gauge had fallen, 6 or 7 days after the inspection. he wanted to know if there was a leak. i said yes, another ''plumber'' said no there was no reason to worry. the gas pipping had passed the inspection. and that, all pipping systems loose pressure after awhile. due to , whatever b.s he was spoutting.
            i got back on the thread and said he]] no its leaking. i said to put 100 psi in the pipping. and make it sing. sence it is so small. plumber came back with , the gas is delivered at low psi, so that means. the pressure wont be high enough to make it leak. and besides it passed inspection. i blew my top . well the home owner listen to me. thank GOD. and had a plumbing co ti helium test the pipping. two weeks later, he posted that there was 3 leaks in the house. my comment, other than i am proud his family was not blowed up. is that the younger generation, of plumbers are lazy, and being taught wrong. or at least he was and is. I have never in 30 years of plumbing, tried to jerry rig gas. It is folks lives at steak. but some of the younger guys, only care that it takes to long to do it right. the boss will get mad, it takes to long. the boss will sure enough be mad, when a house blows up. and a family is dead. yes i am a plumber. and i am proud to be a plumber. i have a proud plumbers crack.
            I bid/install the project per code.
            Code states minimum of no less than 1-1/2 times the working pressure for TEN minutes.1/2 hour on systems over 500 cubic feet system volume.Our houses run on about 9 ounces of pressure.

            That plumber did not run a proper test and guage.Thereby putting a sh!tty rap on my hundreds of tests.

            I can damn well garauntee I'm responsible for thousands upon thousands of gas fittings installed in thousands of occupied structures that have been tested/inspected/approved/occupied PER CODE.


            This all sounds good on a forum about how we are all superplumbers.But I am not going to be getting any work out here if I need to budget for this type of overkill.

            Are we also supposed to silver solder our type "K" copper for residential hot and cold potable water systems now too?

            Let's play.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: For those that wonder why we care

              i don't understand what you mean by overkill. you are correct, the plumber did not test correctly, or did he? he did the min. required. as we all do. but...
              when a problem is detected. the min. goes out the window. and i or ''we'' shift into
              detect and fix mode. i am not a SUPERPLUMBER , nor have i ever claim to be.
              i think the guy, didn't want to admit he could be wrong, so atarted saying anything.
              that works on these forums, if your talking to JO AIN'T got a clue home owner.
              it ws the statement that , any system will leak if you put a 100 lbs in it.
              and it is just low pressure. that sent me off
              It does not make a tinkers damn, that the presure being delivered is only 7 to 9oz
              if a hole is in the pipe the gas will escape. a leak is a leak
              at 100 psi or 9 oz the gas will still leak out.
              granted that at 100 psi it will take longer for the system to leak down. that is why a 30 or 40 lb test will
              show a good test . test was not long enough. this is why i leave the gauge on the hpuse, the next day will tell the true story. if you want a true reading on a gas test in 10 to 15 minutes
              go back to the mercury gauge. if the crown is up ok
              if its concave ahoh
              Last edited by frodo; 08-30-2008, 11:35 AM.
              sigpic
              30+ years as a plumber
              6 years in the Air Force

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: For those that wonder why we care

                Originally posted by frodo View Post
                i don't understand what you mean by overkill. you are correct, the plumber did not test correctly, or did he? he did the min. required. as we all do. but...
                when a problem is detected. the min. goes out the window. and i or ''we'' shift into
                detect and fix mode. i am not a SUPERPLUMBER , nor have i ever claim to be.
                i think the guy, didn't want to admit he could be wrong, so atarted saying anything.
                that works on these forums, if your talking to JO AIN'T got a clue home owner.
                it ws the statement that , any system will leak if you put a 100 lbs in it.
                and it is just low pressure. that sent me off
                It does not make a tinkers damn, that the presure being delivered is only 7 to 9oz
                if a hole is in the pipe the gas will escape. a leak is a leak
                at 100 psi or 9 oz the gas will still leak out.
                granted that at 100 psi it will take longer for the system to leak down. that is why a 30 or 40 lb test will
                show a good test . test was not long enough. this is why i leave the gauge on the hpuse, the next day will tell the true story. if you want a true reading on a gas test in 10 to 15 minutes
                go back to the mercury gauge. if the crown is up ok
                if its concave ahoh
                Fair and level headed rebuttal.
                Unfortunately I don't feel like typing for what would take me twenty minutes to reply.

                I'll only say what others have said to me here on this forum pertaining to code,"If you don't like it perhaps you need to submit for a code change".It appears to me that the ones who write my code do not consider anything more than our test unnecessary.The gas pipe holds...What,at least 300 P.S.I. why are we stopping at a hundred.And if we are going that far I want to see a manometer on it for a year.If there is going to be any displacement lets get it all.

                P.S.
                I want to see you run your proposed test on the last 4" system I ran in a 60,000 square footer with 20 FAU's on the roof.
                Last edited by drtyhands; 08-30-2008, 01:10 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: For those that wonder why we care

                  Thermal expansion/contraction could easily be the difference over seven days.
                  I'm sure anyone here has seen a guage increase overnight when the sun comes out after dreary cool weather the day before.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: For those that wonder why we care

                    Originally posted by drtyhands View Post
                    P.S.
                    I want to see you run your proposed test on the last 4" system ran in a 60,000 square footer with 20 FAU's on the roof.
                    The hilarity of imagining a maintanance worker on a commercial site trying to do that gas job.
                    "But the guy online told me this should hold for a week...I don't get it...the pressure keeps fluctuating!"

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: For those that wonder why we care

                      How did we get off on this gas piping tangent?

                      Face facts, gas pipe can't leak. Not a little bit, not in a short time period or over a longer period of time. It just plain can't leak. don't make no difference how you fix it, or do the test, in the end it can't leak. They make us use a Rogers gauge, but I like a manometer because it's inherently more accurate and reacts instantly.
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Re: For those that wonder why we care

                        i agree. i don't understand, your position. a gas pipe that is installed correctly.
                        won't leak. the reason i use 100 psi. is after the gauge has droped. i use 100 psi to make that little ,hard to find leak ''sing'' i don't use 100 psi every time i test. that is not what i said. but for some body to tell me that just because the inspector passed it. its good. is not good in my book. i leave the gauge on the pipe, during the constructing process, if it drops, i see why. i have run enough screw pipping to know that, small,little pain in the but leaks. show up latter
                        in your 500 ft gas run, if there is a small leak, it won't show up in 10 minutes
                        to much volume, the more volume, the longer to find a small leak.
                        i never said i did not like or want to change the code.
                        the test is set up the way it is so that the inspector can, look at the gauge ,walk the pipe ,come back to the gauge, say ok and go to the next call, he can't hang around allday. not enough time or inspectors for that. it is up to us and our trainning,[the honor system,if you will] to do it right
                        Last edited by frodo; 08-30-2008, 05:26 PM. Reason: for got sumthen
                        sigpic
                        30+ years as a plumber
                        6 years in the Air Force

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: For those that wonder why we care

                          Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                          How did we get off on this gas piping tangent?

                          Face facts, gas pipe can't leak. Not a little bit, not in a short time period or over a longer period of time. It just plain can't leak. don't make no difference how you fix it, or do the test, in the end it can't leak. They make us use a Rogers gauge, but I like a manometer because it's inherently more accurate and reacts instantly.
                          It's called thread drift.Kind of like ragging on a DIY instead of answering his intended question

                          If I test and have a leak I fix it.I test to code.If code wants a higher pressure for a longer period they will write it and get it from me.

                          This is what is upseting,I don't know who or where anyone is on the internet.All I know is some go above and beyond industry standards to keep the line.Now someone says their installations were not tested properly and the systems integrities are under question.And it's not only me,what we're talking about here are the millions of joints inspected over these years under the UPC.

                          I'm not sure but I don't think they wrote the code to make it easy on the inspectors who need a quick inspection.If the code required a longer period of time there would be devices provided that could tell if a system dropped and was refilled.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: For those that wonder why we care

                            Originally posted by frodo View Post
                            i agree. i don't understand, your position. a gas pipe that is installed correctly.
                            won't leak. the reason i use 100 psi. is after the gauge has droped. i use 100 psi to make that little ,hard to find leak ''sing'' i don't use 100 psi every time i test. that is not what i said. but for some body to tell me that just because the inspector passed it. its good. is not good in my book. i leave the gauge on the pipe, during the constructing process, if it drops, i see why. i have run enough screw pipping to know that, small,little pain in the but leaks. show up latter
                            in your 500 ft gas run, if there is a small leak, it won't show up in 10 minutes
                            to much volume, the more volume, the longer to find a small leak.
                            i never said i did not like or want to change the code.
                            the test is set up the way it is so that the inspector can, look at the gauge ,walk the pipe ,come back to the gauge, say ok and go to the next call, he can't hang around allday. not enough time or inspectors for that. it is up to us and our trainning,[the honor system,if you will] to do it right
                            Welcome to the forum Frodo.
                            The larger systems have a longer test period required.

                            ADAM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: For those that wonder why we care

                              I absolutely agree that a gas system should hold 100% over ANY period of time.

                              My comments were on the fact that a homeowner in another forum commented on a guage dropping over the course of a week.

                              If the test were put on in 85 degree temperatures @ high noon sun directly on the pipe, then a week later it's 60 degree's & overcast...what ya s'pose the guage will read?

                              I do overnight testing, often that means the guage will increase in the morning once the sun comes up.

                              This is one issue I have with homeowners getting advice online, so many variables get lost in translation.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: For those that wonder why we care

                                Originally posted by NHMaster3015 View Post
                                I'm posting this excerpt for all those that wonder why as Plumbers we seem so uncompromising when it comes to our trade. Most of us don't take our trade lightly. We fully understand the legal and moral responsibilities involved.


                                Using a qualified plumber insures that they are able to provide us with safe drinking water and proper sanitation. Doctors have long recognized that these factors alone are one reason why we are capable of being disease free. Dr. Lewis Thomas, former head of New York’s Sloan Kettering Cancer Research Center and author of numerous articles and books that explain the glories of medicine to the lay person wrote in the 1984 spring edition of The Foreign Policy Journal the following:

                                “There is no question that our health has improved spectacularly in the past century. One thing seems certain: It did not happen because of improvements in medicine, or medical science, or even the presence of doctors, much of the credit should go to the plumbers and sanitary engineers of the western world. The contamination of drinking water, was at one time the single greatest cause of human disease and death for us. It remains so, along with starvation and malaria for the third world. Typhoid fever, cholera and dysentery were the chief threats to survival in the early part of the 19th century. Today, cholera is unheard of in this country. It would surely reappear if not for sanitary plumbing practices.”

                                Dr. Thomas is a world renowned physician and researcher. Like all great men, he is able to discern truths about the world beyond his specialty. Keep Dr. Thomas’s words in mind the next time you draw a glass of water from the kitchen tap. Human nature is such that we take for granted the benefits of indoor plumbing. The last time you woke up in the middle of the night to use the bathroom you didn’t have to go to an outhouse. Or when you got up in the morning, a nice hot shower helped jump start your day. These everyday occurrences all attribute to the fact that sanitary plumbing, even though often overlooked and forgotten, protects good health. The next time you encounter an ignorant person who demeans the importance of the plumbing industry,politely remind them that “The Plumber Protects The Health Of The Nation”
                                very good!! i like that

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