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  • #16
    Re: soldering ball valves

    Like Rick, about 90% open. Damaged a few closed.

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    • #17
      Re: soldering ball valves

      Originally posted by buyfield View Post
      Like Rick, about 90% open. Damaged a few closed.
      Same here. They can blow out the seal when closed.
      Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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      • #18
        Re: soldering ball valves

        Very interesting thread.
        For the guys who've had trouble soldering ball valves closed, are you saying the valve itself actually blew and was no good? ...or that steam blew out when it was opened?

        I generally use Apollo, Watts or Boston Valves...I wonder if brand name has anything to do with it.

        I have been soldering ball valves closed for years, admittedly there is a blast of steam when I open them right after sometimes, but no other trouble to date.

        A concern has always been the possibility of the seal either melting into the ball cavity or distorting into it and ceasing the valve.
        Neither of these two have ever happened, nor have I ever had a valve blow up (if thats what several of you meant).

        I use Ricks rationale on Gate valves when soldering ball valves, I rather not chance getting solder drips into the seal or cavity, but so far it looks like at least two guys here have first hand experience with ball valves blowing out from soldering closed.
        Strange that it hasn't happened to me, I tend to agree with Adam, I don't think it makes a difference.
        Awaiting Dunbars explanation once he has the "oomph" to type it out.

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        • #19
          Re: soldering ball valves

          I always solder in the open position. I know Wolverine Brass recommends their ball valves soldered closed. I disagree b/c of the pressure that builds can push out the solder.

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          • #20
            Re: soldering ball valves

            If soldering the valved on a closed line, the presssure will build up in the pipe (hot air expands) and usually blows the solder out causing a leak. I think i'll do them all at the 1/2 way point and kill two birds with one stone.
            sigpic

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            • #21
              Re: soldering ball valves

              Good question duckbutter.

              Although its rare, I have had the neoprene seals blow out when soldering ballvalves closed, and also the steam build-up blow out the solder as otehr mentioned. I now solder them any which way as long as long as I am careful with the heat. 90% of the time though I solder them 3/4 open as plumberrick described.
              Water Heater Reviews & Water Heater Information

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              • #22
                Re: soldering ball valves

                Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                I always solder in the open position. I know Wolverine Brass recommends their ball valves soldered closed. I disagree b/c of the pressure that builds can push out the solder.
                Haven't had a ball valve leak from steam yet(probably beause I leave em open if it's the closing joint).But a few times I've had problems with a fitting on a short closed branch with water in it.

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                • #23
                  Re: soldering ball valves

                  Wet lines are another ballgame altogether, then obviously you have to focus on venting the steam or bowing the line to distance the water....last resort ..there's always JettSwett or the bread trick as long as you remember to remove aerators on the flushing fixture.

                  Another thing I often do is to solder the inlet side of a ball valve for a quick shut down to allow homeowners to get the water back on quickly.

                  Never have had a problem soldering the outlet side while under pressure...comments & experiences welcomed on that one.

                  Other point to mention, I use Mapp, not acetylene.

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                  • #24
                    Re: soldering ball valves

                    Open, and when I have water issues, I use a jet sweat if need be.

                    if it is a little water, i'll fight it, not a problem.

                    so anyways, open, open, open
                    sigpic

                    Robert

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                    • #25
                      Re: soldering ball valves

                      Originally posted by westcoastplumber View Post
                      Open, and when I have water issues, I use a jet sweat if need be.

                      if it is a little water, i'll fight it, not a problem.

                      so anyways, open, open, open
                      It's all good..but WHY?
                      Inquiring minds wanna know!

                      Just gathering info from this fine conglomerate of plumbing phenoms here on the forum...one of those never-ending "meaningful" debates we so often hear on the job & in line at the supplier.

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                      • #26
                        Re: soldering ball valves

                        If memory serves, back when Apollo hit the market they were recommending that you solder the valve in the closed position if possible because if you over heated the valve the ball would still be fully seated on the delrin seat and the seat would not deform (maybe) Obviousl if there's water, or the pipe is closed behind the valve you will have to solder it partially open to relieve the pressure.
                        sigpic

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                        • #27
                          Re: soldering ball valves

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          ben, the gate has to be in the valve to prevent any solder from getting into the cavity and preventing the valve from closing. especially when soldering in a vertical position.

                          a globe valve/ washer needs to remain open to prevent heat damage to the rubber washer. this is very common on tub/shower screwdriver stops and soldered angle stops.

                          do you actually remove your gates?

                          rick.
                          I do remove the gates. I was taught this to prevent damage to the packing. Not everything that the Navy teaches is correct. Is this one of those times?
                          Buy cheap, buy twice.

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                          • #28
                            Re: soldering ball valves

                            always open it just the way i learned and has always worked for me

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                            • #29
                              Re: soldering ball valves

                              Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                              I do remove the gates. I was taught this to prevent damage to the packing. Not everything that the Navy teaches is correct. Is this one of those times?
                              I was taught gate valves closed, ball valves open. Gate valves closed to prevent solder from dripping into the seat, and the only seal is on the stem, away from where i'm concentrating the heat. Ball valves open because they have more plastic in them, and it helps keep the hot air moving off of it.
                              No, it's not rocket science, it's plumbing and unlike rocket science it requires a license.

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                              • #30
                                Re: soldering ball valves

                                Originally posted by gear junkie View Post
                                I do remove the gates. I was taught this to prevent damage to the packing. Not everything that the Navy teaches is correct. Is this one of those times?
                                Its overkill, and not necessary 100% of the time. To me it would depend on what type of joint is being used (threaded/welded/soldered/etc).
                                "When we build let us think we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work that our descendants will thank us for, and let us think, as we lay stone upon stone, that a time is to come when these stones will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, "See! This our fathers did for us."
                                John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

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