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tub faucet construction confusion

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  • #16
    Re: tub faucet construction confusion

    Originally posted by Devine Plumbing View Post
    How many of you guys actually spend the time to work on old compression style faucets? If something is this old I typically tell the homeowner it is not worth my time and the expense to fix faucets like these, typically they leak even more when I get done with them. I will usually just give an estimate to replace with another three handle faucet, and an estimated cost to convert to a pressure-balanced single handle
    does anyone still service plumbing anymore? or are we out to replace everything we look at.

    i don't even want to think how many pull out drawers kits i have of seats, o-rings, packings, fiber washers, stems, washers, screws, ect,ect.

    all he needs is a new seat and possibly a new stem as this one looks a little gouged and missing the packing nut.

    and yes there are both hot and cold stems and seats, but my guess is they are both the same (hot) with cross handles. levers are never a good thing with compression style valves.

    bring the stem and seat to a good hardware store and replace the parts as needed.

    rick.
    phoebe it is

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: tub faucet construction confusion

      Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
      does anyone still service plumbing anymore? or are we out to replace everything we look at.

      i don't even want to think how many pull out drawers kits i have of seats, o-rings, packings, fiber washers, stems, washers, screws, ect,ect.

      all he needs is a new seat and possibly a new stem as this one looks a little gouged and missing the packing nut.

      and yes there are both hot and cold stems and seats, but my guess is they are both the same (hot) with cross handles. levers are never a good thing with compression style valves.

      bring the stem and seat to a good hardware store and replace the parts as needed.

      rick.
      NOT DIRECTED AT DEVINE PLUMBING.... but it's usually the ones that cant or are afraid to repair the older tub and shower valves that just want to replace them. Years ago at a shop I used to work for there were guys who just replaced everything and there were those of us who gave options to the customers but could repair ALMOST anything. Thats the difference between a plumber and a salesman.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: tub faucet construction confusion

        I once had the owner of a competing shop tell me they do not do repairs on faucets because they just replaces them. I asked him how that could possibly make sense and he explained he carries faucets but not parts and if he has to drive for parts it costs the HO too much. Mind you this was not for off brand or hard to find stuff it was for everything.

        Mark
        "Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

        I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: tub faucet construction confusion

          If you are going to be a service plumber you should be prepared to fix faucets. Now I don't see much value in just throwing in a couple of washers and calling it fixed but in these times you have to be ready to do just that. Don't take the decision to repair or replace away from the customer. Just charge accordingly and let the warranty be clearly stated.

          That American Standard faucet is very common, durable and parts are readily availible. I wouldn't have a second thought about rebuilding that one.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: tub faucet construction confusion

            Ok, guys, seems like I got some options to work with here. Sorry I got up late and almost missed the discussion. I'm headed off to the hardware store. I know I'd do better at a plumbing supply store, but it's Sunday. I'll let you know what I find.

            Thanks again for all the answers!

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: tub faucet construction confusion

              hurry up as your sunday bath is approaching monday and another week without a bath

              actually i was at the hardware store this morning. the seat is $4.00 and the stem is $24.00.

              plus i needed to fill their vending machines. i know what junk snacks sell

              rick.
              phoebe it is

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                Originally posted by plumberscrack View Post
                Ducky, you need glasses
                Hence the bold font...I missed the pic last night..at 2am ( I really gotta stop the late night coffee when doing paperwork)

                There are two prevalent schools of thought on faucet repair, Ricks is based on his forte...the guy could look at almsot any fixture and tell you what year it was made, the model #...and what mood the machinist was in when he turned it on the lathe.

                My thinking, it's over 50 years old, out of code (anti-scald) and probably going to be more trouble in the near future as the valve body itself and water lines it's connected to probably has wear & corrosion...not to mention the strong likelyhood that the piping in the wall could very well be threaded brass...I dunno if you boys come across that much, but in his area it's common on older homes...and a 3 handle valve is a sure sign of an older home...
                it should be in Websters dictionary under the definition of "brittle".
                (Suppliers in that area carry "reem" adapters...I dunno if you guys are familar with them, for adapting threaded brass to copper)

                My worst nightmare...giving a customer a price to replace stems on a faucet that old, replacing the stems...seeing it still weep...attempting to tighten a little and watching the weeping continue from an unseen pit or crack or plain old wear.
                Whatcha gonna tell the customer then?..."Sorry ma'am...I know I just spent a billable hour on this valve, but I'm afraid I have to come back and replace it ..while your water stays off till I get back."

                By all means, take pride in your ability to repair older fixtures, but know when it's time to trade 'er in for a new model.
                Kinda like hanging on to my old truck, but paying the mechanic to keep it tip-top despite the rusted undercarriage, smoke billowing from the exhaust and transmission slipping.

                I see it as a liability, in this case at least....what if you arouse a break in the 50+ yr old water lines inside the wall while tightening the stem, that doesn't show on the ceiling for a few days?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                  Originally posted by spudtu View Post
                  Ok, guys, seems like I got some options to work with here. Sorry I got up late and almost missed the discussion. I'm headed off to the hardware store. I know I'd do better at a plumbing supply store, but it's Sunday. I'll let you know what I find.

                  Thanks again for all the answers!
                  If that doesn't pan out...look in the yellow pages for Watertown Supply...you guessed it, they're in Watertown, not very far from you.
                  Quite possibly the BEST supplier in the state for obsolete or outdated parts.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                    So this is the cockamamie, half-___, temporary, unwise, lazy solution I came up with to hold me over until I can get to a real plumbing store.

                    I took a steel lock washer, split type, and slid it over the stem between the seat and the fine-threaded section that holds the assembly in the wall. I know, I know, dissimilar metals, rust...it ain't permanent (how many times have I said that before?).

                    But now I gotta get out of here, I'm supposed to be heading to Conn. tonight to fix another tub faucet, this one 80 yrs old in my mother's house down there, broken handle stem from the sound of it. No one can take showers; the boarder down there is pouring buckets of hot water over himself in the tub (I am not joking). Do tub faucets break in waves like this often?

                    Anyhow, I appreciate the note about the thick brass washer forcing the seat home, Rick. Maybe there was one and I dropped it someplace. Anyhow, that's what gave me the idea. And the dripping is not too much worse than before

                    I'll try to let you know about the permanent fix when it happens. Thanks again!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                      I didn't see your last post, duck, because I was still on p. 2 when I posted last, but thanks for that perspective and the tip about Watertown supply. I am a cheap b__, but your thoughts give me pause. Actually, it is threaded brass inside the wall, because there is an access panel in the next room. The real reason I even started this little repair is because one of the brass pipe sections is weeping constantly, down into the basement. Looking at the difficulty of elbow room, and fearing an attempt to even just tighten the brass pipe nuts might result in catastrophic failure, I thought I'd leave that job for a full day's time. I figured I could replace a seat washer in an hour, no complications... .....and then the drip would stop in the basement....

                      Yeah, and like you say Rick, now it'll be Friday before I get that bath. Good thing I'm self-employed, I mighta got fired for being a health hazard this week.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                        Originally posted by spudtu View Post
                        So this is the cockamamie, half-___, temporary, unwise, lazy solution I came up with to hold me over until I can get to a real plumbing store.

                        I took a steel lock washer, split type, and slid it over the stem between the seat and the fine-threaded section that holds the assembly in the wall. I know, I know, dissimilar metals, rust...it ain't permanent (how many times have I said that before?).

                        But now I gotta get out of here, I'm supposed to be heading to Conn. tonight to fix another tub faucet, this one 80 yrs old in my mother's house down there, broken handle stem from the sound of it. No one can take showers; the boarder down there is pouring buckets of hot water over himself in the tub (I am not joking). Do tub faucets break in waves like this often?

                        original type porcelian handels do break and they are very sharp

                        Anyhow, I appreciate the note about the thick brass washer forcing the seat home, Rick. Maybe there was one and I dropped it someplace. Anyhow, that's what gave me the idea. And the dripping is not too much worse than before

                        from the photo and shadow, it loos like the brass washer is there. look inside the seat and verify there is no nick on the mating surface where the rubber washer seats.

                        I'll try to let you know about the permanent fix when it happens. Thanks again!
                        the seat is probably all that is wrong, but because of the hassle and not knowing, i would buy both the seat and the stem. $30.00 is a whole lot cheaper than having me or duck fly over .

                        rick.
                        phoebe it is

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                          Originally posted by PLUMBER RICK View Post
                          the seat is probably all that is wrong, but because of the hassle and not knowing, i would buy both the seat and the stem. $30.00 is a whole lot cheaper than having me or duck fly over .

                          rick.
                          He'd have a nice, shiney new Symmons with chrome goof plate, an Allura trim & all new copper risers from the basement by now if I'd been there.
                          Spudtu, be very careful with that brass piping, use caution putting any torque on the valve...and hopefully the original gate valve on the meter has been swapped for a ball valve.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                            Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                            Hence the bold font...I missed the pic last night..at 2am ( I really gotta stop the late night coffee when doing paperwork)

                            There are two prevalent schools of thought on faucet repair, Ricks is based on his forte...the guy could look at almsot any fixture and tell you what year it was made, the model #...and what mood the machinist was in when he turned it on the lathe.

                            My thinking, it's over 50 years old, out of code (anti-scald) and probably going to be more trouble in the near future as the valve body itself and water lines it's connected to probably has wear & corrosion...not to mention the strong likelyhood that the piping in the wall could very well be threaded brass...I dunno if you boys come across that much, but in his area it's common on older homes...and a 3 handle valve is a sure sign of an older home...
                            it should be in Websters dictionary under the definition of "brittle".
                            (Suppliers in that area carry "reem" adapters...I dunno if you guys are familar with them, for adapting threaded brass to copper)

                            My worst nightmare...giving a customer a price to replace stems on a faucet that old, replacing the stems...seeing it still weep...attempting to tighten a little and watching the weeping continue from an unseen pit or crack or plain old wear.
                            Whatcha gonna tell the customer then?..."Sorry ma'am...I know I just spent a billable hour on this valve, but I'm afraid I have to come back and replace it ..while your water stays off till I get back."

                            By all means, take pride in your ability to repair older fixtures, but know when it's time to trade 'er in for a new model.
                            Kinda like hanging on to my old truck, but paying the mechanic to keep it tip-top despite the rusted undercarriage, smoke billowing from the exhaust and transmission slipping.

                            I see it as a liability, in this case at least....what if you arouse a break in the 50+ yr old water lines inside the wall while tightening the stem, that doesn't show on the ceiling for a few days?
                            Wrote in wrong post!
                            Last edited by Masterplumb; 05-18-2008, 08:40 PM. Reason: wrong post

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                              Originally posted by Masterplumb View Post
                              Wrote in wrong post!
                              Huh?...who?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: tub faucet construction confusion

                                Originally posted by DuckButter View Post
                                Huh?...who?
                                Me! I deleted my original post because I wrote about another post in this post. I guess I didnt get enough sleep this weekend

                                Comment

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